2017 British & Irish Lions Squad Announcement

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

May mean nothing but in Daly's Lions player profile thing he's listed as being a wing. If this is accurate it means that 6 wingers have been included (Him, North, Watson, Nowell, Seymour, Williams) which seems like a ridiculous amount, especially when you've got another 3 fullbacks (Hogg, Halfpenny, Payne). Don't see how all are going to get a decent amount of game time leading up to the tests.

 

[cyRil]

I feel sorry for the Scottish lads, but the thing is they're all s**t-outs. That's probably why they didn't get selected.

 

[ncurd]

You're also forgetting Watson plays fullback for club.

Have to say I do think we have too many centers/back 3 I hope it's more cover for mid-week games than muddled thinking for the starting test side.

 

[General Melchett]

I don't have a massive issue with only two Scots making the cut. J Gray was up against some really stiff competition but I don't think his exclusion is a travesty as he ran out of steam towards the end of the 6N. I feel for Launch who is also unfortunate to miss out. The only ones who possibly have a case are Hamish Watson who outplayed both Tips, Warbs and his Irish opponents. Granted the Twickenham display was poor. Russell and Ford both have a case but Biggar was always going to get the nod because the coaches know him. For those who are relieved that Jamie Roberts missed out, brace yourselves. He'll be in NZ before the end of the tour and will get called up as soon as the first centre heads home injured after playing crashball.

The biggest selection error of all is Rob Howley as head attack coach. Gatland is on record as saying that Scottish players were liable to lose out on marginal calls due to a lack of Scots on the coaching team. Why is there a lack thereof? Because Townsend and O'Halloran understandably declined the chance to assist Howley. I'm also concerned that the current coaching set up has no succession planning in mind as I don't see any of the assistants being head coach material. Would be pretty excited about a Schmidt, Townsend & Borthwick ticket in South Africa.

 

[cyRil]

I couldn't agree more. The whole Welsh set-up are desperate to bail to get on this jolly, whereas every other head coach/coaching set-up are actually interested only in doing the job they're paid to do.

And we wonder why our team isn't performing. Bloody rotten to the core.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I think the team that will line up for the first year will be
1.McGrath 2.Best 3.Furlong
4.AWJ 5.Kruis
6.Stander 7.Warburton 8.TF
9.Murray 10.Sexton
11.North 12.Henshaw 13.Payne
14.Williams 15.Hqlfpenny
16.Owens 17.Vunipola 18.Cole 19.Itoje 20.Vunipola 21.Webb 22.Farrell 23.Hogg

I think Farrell is going as a 10. And i think he's there to push Sexton along with Biggar, i cant see Gatland wanting to break up Sexton and Henshaw. They both destroyed NZ when they played them.
In the pack, the Irish front row must be selected, they are the best unit and Bests experience will count for so much with this team.
I'm going for Kruis and AWJ based on what Wales have. Now i know they don't have the anywhere near the level of locks England do but i think Gatland will want 2 big heavy guys in the scrum. Itoje and Henderson will fight it out for the bench.
Backrow, obviously Warburton as he's the captain and he's the best option. I think he's going to be player of the tour. Stander and Faletau are both complimentary. Best will need all these options lineout.
Half backs, not much to say.
Centres. Here's my big prediction, Payne will play himself into the 15. I don't know if it's at 13/15 but he will do it, and i think with Henshaw you will have a ready made combination able to beat the All Blacks IMO.
Back three, again is a unit. Halfpenny may not be the attacker Hogg is, but he can defend better and has better core skills. Also isn't going to be his first big match. Williams is a player who deserves to be on the pitch, North can't not be taken, and i think he'll start the first test.
That's what i think will happen, probably not nearly right.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Personally I think so considering you can't just have a huge squad of 45 players in it.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on numbers.


I mean I have seen people on social media saying that Wigglesworth should be going like WTF???? I swear so many people have such weird perception of players. Wigglesworth is a club player that's it a very good one but like WTF.

Another welsh player who is unlucky is Scott Williams.

Agree about Wigglesworth. He's been a part of Saracens for long enough to make some crucial to their success, but he's not the kind of player who would do the same instantly elsewhere. Besides which he got 27 caps for England and was lucky there were basically not ma y other good 9s at the time.

Re. Scott Williams I don't think it's an example of being unlucky; when I talk about the Irish Scots and English who got unlucky I mean players who many expected to be on the plane on a combination of talent and form, but who lost a 50/50 call on the day.
Scott Williams is a great player but how many peoples squads was he in?

The ubiquitous picks at centre were Henshaw, Joseph, and Farrell. Then it was a toss up between Gary Ringrose, Jonathan Davies, or Huw Jones maybe. Also Elliott Daly best position is probably 13 and jared Payne plays well there. Scott Williams is unlucky that there's so much competition in his spot, but not in the sense that he could have or should gone and narrowly lost out.

 

[msf]

I guess my main problem would be with Warburton as captain. Unless the Kiwis are somehow not being honest, they (Henry and McCaw) see O´Brien as the better player, and since neither of them is good at jumping in the lineout it seems like we won´t get both in the team. The same seems to go for Stander, so perhaps I am wrong about that. Perhaps either can play with Warburton if Faletau is there to jump, but then that means our choice at 8 is limited. I can see why Gatland went for him though - he is the best player over the ball in the NH, and we are going to have to be very good in this area to beat the All Blacks.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, it seems to me that with just five locks picked, Launchbury is almost certain to play some part on the tour.

 

[ALJ]

Not really a distinctly English view. Just basing it on the past 12 months. I don't know what's not to understand Farrell has been the starting 12 for England for 2 years now and favourite to start at 12 for the Lions. Most pundits/former pros like O'Driscoll have Farrell at 12. You have 5 centres without Farrell unless I'm missing someone Daly, Davies, Henshaw, Joseph, Te'o. Daly will be use as a utility back so 4. I'd argue 3 or those are 13s. So Farrell or Henshaw for starting Lions 15. Bigger/Henshaw for midweeks Sexton/Farrell starters.

Edit - forgot Payne again he's more of a 13 for me.,

So if you're right, they're only taking 2 FHs.

Given that you will need 2 for every single game and Sexton is going to need plenty of recovery time, that doesn't seem to stack up for me.

To be fair, they did it in 2013 (although Farrell was one of the two) so perhaps you're right - I just don't see it given the other back options selected.

Farrell can play 12 (obviously) but I see Henshaw and Te'o battling for 12, Davies, JJ & Payne for 13 with Daly the floating sub covering a multitude of positions.


One thing that's abundantly clear though is that there are a lot of players that can cover more than one position - Could be that's by design for the inevitable injuries, could also be why some of the Scots (among others) lost out on any marginal calls.

 

[david0404]

Most important thing is that this team is supposed to represent four rugby nations (regardless of how proportionate that representation is for each country). The spirit of the lions is completely lost if people decide to lose interest in the team or possess ill-will purely on the basis that not enough of a certain country's players were selected. There will be injuries, there will be replacements, and it is likely players such as Launchbury and Russell will get the call-up at some point in the tour. Think of Corbisiero last time out, wasn't named in the original squad, called up as a replacement and went on to score a try in the tests as a starter. So let's have friendly debate now, but once the tour begins we should all focus on getting behind the squad that has been selected to represent our four countries.

On the squad itself, I was surprised at a few inclusions, Moriarty, Biggar and Teo'o for example, but couldn't instantly pick a man-for-man better replacement. Players like Launchbury and Watson, while hard done by, suffered from playing in arguably out strongest positions, second row and back-row. I think the bench will be crucial, and there's a lot of very exciting players that could come off the bench and make things interesting if the game loosens up in the last 20, players like Sinckler, Vunipola, Webb, Nowell. I don't think however, contrary to popular opinion, that the squad is particularly Gatball-esque. Yes Teo'o is very typical of this gameplan and a rogue seleciton, but looking at what I think the first test squad could be, with Farrell at 12 and very quick and more sleight backs than Wales usually possess, I think Gatland may have opted for a more nuanced gameplan than usual. However as has been mentioned, with Howley at attack coach it's more likely that the same-old game plan will be the one favoured, which is a shame.

For what it's worth, this is what I think the first test team will be at the moment, although I hope it changes and is based purely on performances in the warm-up games, and not on reputation.

1. Marler 2. Best 3. Furlong
4. Itoje 5. Wyn-Jones
6. Stander 7. Warburton (C)
8. Faletau

9. Murray 10. Sexton

11. Watson 14. North
12. Farrell 13. Henshaw
15. Hogg

 

[westernforce]

I think the team that will line up for the first year will be
1.McGrath 2.Best 3.Furlong
4.AWJ 5.Kruis
6.Stander 7.Warburton 8.TF
9.Murray 10.Sexton
11.North 12.Henshaw 13.Payne
14.Williams 15.Hqlfpenny
16.Owens 17.Vunipola 18.Cole 19.Itoje 20.Vunipola 21.Webb 22.Farrell 23.Hogg

I think Farrell is going as a 10. And i think he's there to push Sexton along with Biggar, i cant see Gatland wanting to break up Sexton and Henshaw. They both destroyed NZ when they played them.
In the pack, the Irish front row must be selected, they are the best unit and Bests experience will count for so much with this team.
I'm going for Kruis and AWJ based on what Wales have. Now i know they don't have the anywhere near the level of locks England do but i think Gatland will want 2 big heavy guys in the scrum. Itoje and Henderson will fight it out for the bench.
Backrow, obviously Warburton as he's the captain and he's the best option. I think he's going to be player of the tour. Stander and Faletau are both complimentary. Best will need all these options lineout.
Half backs, not much to say.
Centres. Here's my big prediction, Payne will play himself into the 15. I don't know if it's at 13/15 but he will do it, and i think with Henshaw you will have a ready made combination able to beat the All Blacks IMO.
Back three, again is a unit. Halfpenny may not be the attacker Hogg is, but he can defend better and has better core skills. Also isn't going to be his first big match. Williams is a player who deserves to be on the pitch, North can't not be taken, and i think he'll start the first test.
That's what i think will happen, probably not nearly right.

Not a bad team but can't see warrbles picking these players to start...tbh I don't know how biggar and halfpenny are on the plane..finn Russell should be on the plane.

Gatland will go for something similar to this id imagine:

1 furlong 2 george 3 m.vunipola
4 AWJ 5 Itoje
6 Stander 7 Warburton 8 b.vunipola
9 Murray 10 Farrell
11 North 12 Henshaw 13 Davies
14 Wiliams 15 Hogg

He will start a physical team similar to above with good defence in the centre's..i can't see Payne getting near the team but I thought he might travel alright..launchbury would have been a good option too.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Not a bad team but can't see warrbles picking these players to start...tbh I don't know how biggar and halfpenny are on the plane..finn Russell should be on the plane.

Gatland will go for something similar to this id imagine:

1 furlong 2 george 3 m.vunipola
4 AWJ 5 Itoje
6 Stander 7 Warburton 8 b.vunipola
9 Murray 10 Farrell
11 North 12 Henshaw 13 Davies
14 Wiliams 15 Hogg

He will start a physical team similar to above with good defence in the centre's..i can't see Payne getting near the team but I thought he might travel alright..launchbury would have been a good option too.

I just can't see how Sexton wouldn't start. He's beaten the All Blacks recently, and he's a very good player. Only Barrett is a better 10 in world rugby. Apart from that the team looks quite plausible for Gatland. I did think of Henshaw and Davies, If JD2 could pass it would actually be quite a good centre partnership.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

May mean nothing but in Daly's Lions player profile thing he's listed as being a wing. If this is accurate it means that 6 wingers have been included (Him, North, Watson, Nowell, Seymour, Williams) which seems like a ridiculous amount, especially when you've got another 3 fullbacks (Hogg, Halfpenny, Payne). Don't see how all are going to get a decent amount of game time leading up to the tests.

Agreed it is overkill in terms of centres, wings and full backs. I think this is reaction to 2013, when so many of them went down and cover had to be called in. It got a bit silly when Shane Williams came in for 1 game. But also that the quality of the NZ Super rugby franchises is much, much better than that faced in Australia. Western Force were a complete joke, flying in nobodies to play for them v the Lions. Knowing Sod's law this time round more forwards will go down and need cover brought in.

If every player is supposed to be given a chance to play before the first test then they aren't going to have much game time to impress. Just hope it's not a repeat of 2005 in that sense when the squad got split between Dirt trackers and test team.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Seems the Launchbury wedding rumour was a load of rubbish. Feel really bad for the guy.

Especially as it's so obvious why it happened. Borthwick and Farrell would have a lot of influence in recommending their old Saracens pal, and Launchbury never overlapped with Gatland so had no-one to do the same for him. I really can't see any other reason. Kruis is a great player but hasn't played at all, missed the six nations... Launchbury was as good as Itoje in the tournament, perhaps better. Yeah, I'm ****ed off.

 

[ncurd]

I'm not entirely sure how everyone was spitting feathers about JJ not to be included and then not including him in their teams. TBH despite all my talk about Farrell @12 I'm thinking he may not start (though 100% on the bench) in a backline of

9) Murray
10) Sexton
11) Nowell (I think he's a better grafter for creating chances than Watson and I think we'll need that more)
12) Henshaw
13) JJ
14) North
15) Hogg

 

[westernforce]

I just can't see how Sexton wouldn't start. He's beaten the All Blacks recently, and he's a very good player. Only Barrett is a better 10 in world rugby. Apart from that the team looks quite plausible for Gatland. I did think of Henshaw and Davies, If JD2 could pass it would actually be quite a good centre partnership.

Sexton won't stick the physicality of the tour ..i agree he's the best 10 but Farrell will play most of the rugby at 10 on tour

 

[ncurd]

Seems the Launchbury wedding rumour was a load of rubbish. Feel really bad for the guy.

Especially as it's so obvious why it happened. Borthwick and Farrell would have a lot of influence in recommending their old Saracens pal, and Launchbury never overlapped with Gatland so had no-one to do the same for him. I really can't see any other reason. Kruis is a great player but hasn't played at all, missed the six nations... Launchbury was as good as Itoje in the tournament, perhaps better. Yeah, I'm ****ed off.

Yeah that's pretty **** I can understand Itoje being ahead by sheer potential but Launchbury is a straight up better player than Lawes and Kruis has no game time. Shortlisted for player of the tournament in the 6 nations with how MoM performances and not making the squad is going burn for a long time. He should of been the 3rd choice lock (possibly 2nd I wasn't convinced by AWJ who I think make it on past glories rather than recent form).

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Happy that Scotland has been largely ignored as the Scotland vs Australia test could now be competitive (and Kinghorn must be given a crack at fullback). Gutted they didn't take Finn Russell as Italy would then have had a solid chance of a massive ranking points haul when playing Scotland this summer.

Focussing on this Lions series I think the selected squad will offer less of a contest to NZ than Ireland and England would, and possibly less than what Wales did last year (when I thought they played some great stuff). The selection of Biggar and Halfpenny gave me a particular chuckle.

 

[duncanb]

Lucky players.
Sinkler there as no other choice.
Best.midweek captain.
Payne. WTF
Bigger. Need someone to argue with refs.
Nowell.?
Moriarty. Why 3 No8 can cover other back row spots but better all-rounder.
Unlucky.
Launchbury better than most picked.
Russell different option.
Ringrose.better than others picked.
Coaches choice as always.
My first team but no doubt 3 or4 injured.
Vunipola.
Owens.
Furlong.
Krius
Itoje
Warburton
Tupric
Vunipola
Murray.
Sexton.
Seymour.
Farrell
Henshaw
North.
Hogg.
McGrath.
Sinkler
George.
Lawes.
Faletua.
Webb.
Teo
Watson.

- - - Updated - - -

Lucky players.
Sinkler there as no other choice.
Best.midweek captain.
Payne. WTF
Bigger. Need someone to argue with refs.
Nowell.?
Moriarty. Why 3 No8 can cover other back row spots but better all-rounder.
Unlucky.
Launchbury better than most picked.
Russell different option.
Ringrose.better than others picked.
Coaches choice as always.
My first team but no doubt 3 or4 injured.
Vunipola.
Owens.
Furlong.
Krius
Itoje
Warburton
Tupric
Vunipola
Murray.
Sexton.
Seymour.
Farrell
Henshaw
North.
Hogg.
McGrath.
Sinkler
George.
Lawes.
Faletua.
Webb.
Teo
Watson.

 

[General Melchett]

Seems the Launchbury wedding rumour was a load of rubbish. Feel really bad for the guy.

Especially as it's so obvious why it happened. Borthwick and Farrell would have a lot of influence in recommending their old Saracens pal, and Launchbury never overlapped with Gatland so had no-one to do the same for him. I really can't see any other reason. Kruis is a great player but hasn't played at all, missed the six nations... Launchbury was as good as Itoje in the tournament, perhaps better. Yeah, I'm ****ed off.

Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if Charteris or Ball had been called up at the expense of Launch? Now that would have hurt.

I think Launch will be at the top of the standby list with J Gray right behind him although we do need Gray for the tests against Australia and Fiji.