[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: England vs. France (04/02/2017)

[The Jones Boy]

WTF first French 3 points was after a blatant forward pass, England pinged for "diving" on the ball out of the ruck (never heard of that before), another penalty. Ref was bad but not biased, certainly not in favour of England.

The ref made a few little mistakes but England were certainly given more time to clear their rucks and more leeway when there was a chance to give it.
In return France were punished for small indiscretions to a petty level and it was commented on by the English commentating panel. When that happens then you know one team is getting caned.
Englands scrum was pushed around most of the game but the free kick and penalty count won't tell you that.
England were more disciplined to be fair and France were a little loose at times but that happens when you are more robust and France outplayed England at the breakdown more often than the ref's whistle will tell you.
However they missed a long-ish kick from out front that went narrowly wide and that meant they lost.

Eddie is on a roll and that was a get out of jail card.
Judged to perfection.

Hats off to Daly and Teo

 

[corny]

This is sounding a lot like you being bitter the Scots beat you so finding some way to justify the fact we didn't have an upset like you did.

Ah come on would ye. Don't insult me like that. I'm an impartial observer with no axe to grind. I can disagree with you without you calling me a biggot or sore loser.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ah come on would ye. Don't insult me like that. I'm an impartial observer with no axe to grind. I can disagree with you without you calling me a biggot or sore loser.

There is no way England got the rub of the green in that game at all. We were not allowed to hold on longer, as shown by the fact we got penalised for holding on far more than the French did. We got penalised in the scrum more and generally were penalised everywhere more than the French including a weak yellow and the penalty after a blatant forward pass by the French.

 

[jackass11]

I agree ref didnt decide the match, to suggest otherwise is just sour grapes - england just have a winning mentality that gives them an extra edge at the moment!

 

[valley commando]

It says it all when you win but the man of the match was on the other side.

 

[jackass11]

Does it lol

 

[die_mole]

There is no way England got the rub of the green in that game at all. We were not allowed to hold on longer, as shown by the fact we got penalised for holding on far more than the French did. We got penalised in the scrum more and generally were penalised everywhere more than the French including a weak yellow and the penalty after a blatant forward pass by the French.

the penalty count was 2 to 1 with the french on the losing side

the almost try by daly was set up by an england player being allowed to hang on for 10 seconds

at the scrum any instability was either a whistle against france or a reset, england was only penalized for blatant scrum infringement while france got pinged for a lot of 50-50

 

[jackass11]

So when england kept the scrum up and competed they didnt get penalised?!!

Biased ref for sure lol

- - - Updated - - -

the ref allowed both sides to hang onto to the ball in the ruck - he was consitant for both sides

Rewatch the game if your not sure

 

[Every Time Ref]

Well that is a completely different argument and I agree. There does need to be a rethink on some things.

Probably this isn't the right place for the discussion, but yes "he landed in X therefore sanction is Y, no questions asked" is not a nuanced enough approach to a difficult issue

 

[die_mole]

So when england kept the scrum up and competed they didnt get penalised?!!

Biased ref for sure lol

- - - Updated - - -

the ref allowed both sides to hang onto to the ball in the ruck - he was consitant for both sides

Rewatch the game if your not sure

ok champ

 

[munstermuffin]

Probably this isn't the right place for the discussion, but yes "he landed in X therefore sanction is Y, no questions asked" is not a nuanced enough approach to a difficult issue

100% agree. As I said the ref was right in his calls of laws. Issue is the laws and that is world rugby issue. But I agree it is a question that has to be addressed

 

[Lé Ddanno]

The ref made a few little mistakes

Like missing at least four forward passes, sin binning a case of momentum and twisting, blowing up at every minor transgression real or otherwise and so on. He didn't have a clue.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On Itoje - one poor game at 6 as part of the worst team performance by far he has ever been part of is not enough to write him off as an international flanker

Agreed, but don't like players playing out of their normal club position. 3 - Itoje, Faz and Daly is too many.

For next week I'd like to see Hask instead of Wood and Teo in for Ford. Hughes did a few good things, but drifted in and out too much, really wouldn't mind seeing Morgan spirited in from left field. Well though Daly went there has to be a place for Nowell. And the whole front 5 needs to up its game considerably.

But it was still a win.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

the penalty count was 2 to 1 with the french on the losing side

the almost try by daly was set up by an england player being allowed to hang on for 10 seconds

at the scrum any instability was either a whistle against france or a reset, england was only penalized for blatant scrum infringement while france got pinged for a lot of 50-50

French cynical play in their own 22 with a try scoring opportunity by not releasing? No yellow. There was no French defence set up and he prevented the 9 getting the ball out.

Also not impressed with out front 3 at all. I've said before I feel they are an old school front row who do not offer enough round the park and it showed. The argument is that they are supposed to win you set piece but they didn't even do that. Either play players that can be mobile or dominate the set piece, don't pick players who do neither.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hughes did a few good things, but drifted in and out too much, really wouldn't mind seeing Morgan spirited in from left field.

Agree with that.
Hughes is a good carrier in his own right, and did show flashes of it, but it doesn't work in the pack we put out. We're used to giving the ball to Binny 1m from the gainline and him making yards, Hughes can't do that.

I'm not saying we SHOULD play him there, but Hughes on the flank (while we're missing Robshaw) with Morgan at 8 could have potential. Itoje back into the donkey row for Lawes.




I also think we should have a lock on the bench next week. Thought Launch and Lawes both started looking noticeably tired at about 50mins, and having the only replacement coming from the pitch doesn't help the strength in the scrum late on,

 

[munstermuffin]

Piccamoles made 122m. The whole English pack made 110m. Some stat for an old man

 

[SharksFan86]

Not had chance to see much of the game due to work but just glad we got the win, sometimes you just have to win ugly !

France are always a tough opponent and on opening weekend even more so, regroup and we look forward to taking on Wales next week which will be fun in our house as my girlfriend is from Wales and likes her Rugby as well

 

[mustardcharlie]

England can and will play much better than that and lose. The forwards were innocuous. Other than those who are injured, who else is there though? The backs can hardly be blamed for that performance.

 

[ncurd]

Personally I thought the ref was reasonably fair to both sides in his interpretation of the laws. He even admitted to May it was probably a harsh yellow but them da rules.

Certainly didn't feel like he influenced the game or was being over officious.


My issues why is Brown still playing on the coat tails of a few seasons ago? I swear every attack dies with him and I can't rememeber the last time he cobtributed in attack in a meaningful way but the guy appears undroppable and plays all 80 mins. It's ridiculous.

Wood was useless he has to go and Hask has to start.

Apart from that I'd make no changes for next week, I'd like a better front row but Hartley won't get dropped and I don't think better starting options are out there yet on the property side of things although keep grooming them.

Every so often a great side has to as ugly as possible and be second best on pitch. I'm more happy about this than I should be but I know under Lancaster we would of lost that game, Jones has made these players believe they can win even on the back foot.

 

[gaston le gaff]

As a biased french supporter i thought the ref was hard on France but he did not change the result, the French lost this game by their mistakes and not taking command when they had control of the match, the diffrence for me was the bench, England brought on gain line winners and scored by putting huge pressure on the French defence. This is improvement for France but who wants to be called the best team who never wins. Yes England won their first game ugly but they won, and that i'm afraid was the difference.!!!