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[2018 November Tests] Ireland vs New Zealand (17/11/18)

Dai Yorkshire

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The better number locks, props, 8s or flankers I played with were hardly running in tries all the time, if at all. Their contribution was generally felt elsewhere, like blasting people of the ruck, or being at the bottom of it, where the ball was. All, so that fellas like me could score the odd point, or feed it to the 3/4 line to have a feast. Not saying they never scored points, but if they did, I'd treat it as gravy as opposed to requirement.

If I was picking an 8 today, I'd still pick Read. Stander would have a good shout.
I liked your post but every one is leaving out Faletau who in my opinion is up there with any of them, is it because he's playing in a welsh team?
 

Jakedood

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Not that I disagree with Read as the best 8 in rugby but that rating system is a load of shite!!

If you look at outsdie centres, Darren Cave is supposedly the 5th best in the world, ahead of Jonathon Davies? And Huw Jones... just to emphasise the point
 

The Alpha Bro

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If you look at outsdie centres, Darren Cave is supposedly the 5th best in the world, ahead of Jonathon Davies? And Huw Jones... just to emphasise the point
Jonny Hill - 6th best player in the world... Whoever that is!

I think its cool that they're trying something like this and I do like a lot of their articles but considering the amount they hype the index, they should really have a better system because its obviously terrible!
 

Tigs Man

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Jonny Hill - 6th best player in the world... Whoever that is!

I think its cool that they're trying something like this and I do like a lot of their articles but considering the amount they hype the index, they should really have a better system because its obviously terrible!

They are desperate to get a NFL: type system of stats and charts into rugby.
Which is nice and all but rugby just doesn't lend themselves to stats like that.

I think they want it like american sports in general, obviously nothing to do with how much work American sports media analysts and statisticians get compared to over here.......
 

dullonien

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Not that I disagree with Read as the best 8 in rugby but that rating system is a load of shite!!

Faletau is only the 5th best Welsh 8. I never knew that Seb Davies, Will Boyd, Dan Baker and Ross Moriarty were all better than him!
 

mania

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He played better than read in my opinion, not that you are asking
you need to keep in mind that vermulen is an exceptional player and that read is making his way back from injury and played most of the test calendar. vermulen has smartly taken a rest.
vermulen played 3 test this year and reads on 9? plus read played super rugby whereas vermulen was in japan. huge difference. reads had a much bigger workload.
i'll take read at 60-70% than most 8's and captains at 100%
a rest over the summer and a curtailed super season and RC and read will come right. he's not far off his usual best and i repeat , read didnt let us down in the darkArts. he was stuck into all the tight stuff and put in lots of tackles and cleanouts.
 

mania

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I agree that read had a bad game for his standards , maybe the worst i've seen him play... but with most carries and second most metres for a kiwi forward, second most successful tackles for a kiwi forward and third most for any forward (1 less than Owen Franks at 17), no missed tackles, one handling error and one turnover conceded.

if thats read at his worst then he's definately ABs captain material.
 

mania

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i think ive figure out ABs gameplan and if it comes off it'll be unstoppable.
dual pivots. anyone ever see the alfieLanger and kingWallyLewis days? thats what i think they're going for with blockerRoach and paulSironen like players running off them
 

Nubiwan

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Not that I disagree with Read as the best 8 in rugby but that rating system is a load of shite!!
I am not a stats man when i comes to judging a players performance. Too many nuances to the game than just whether or not you managed to offload or assist in tries etc. Stats perhaps useful in deciding between two players you think are a toss up. Even then, you have to pick based on opponents at times, conditions etc. Stats just part of the story.

Faletau is down at #63 in this chart. I fondly recall him busting through the NZ backs to score a try against the ABs for the Lions. Must be some bloody good #8s around or it is a somewhat dubious chart?
 

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The loss to Ireland is probably the most convincing loss we've have in had in very long time. We average 1 loss a year which is great considering the level of opposition that we have to face (i.e tier one). In all those losses, I always knew we'd come back. The loss to the irish, was different. For the first time in a long time, I saw a defence that can stick to us and a pack that can rattle us. It was kind of a role reversal.

We went into that game knowing full well that this would sort out just who actually is the current best team in the world. We will always be the greatest team in all of team sports but just like in boxing, the current champ is the champ. There was no holding back from our boys, you can't do the haka and then come out saving the best for the RWC as some seem to think. Yes we maybe favourites going into the world cup as we have been for sometime now. However, Ireland to me is the current best team in the world.

It was the way they won...
 
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Umaga's Witness

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you need to keep in mind that vermulen is an exceptional player and that read is making his way back from injury and played most of the test calendar. vermulen has smartly taken a rest.
vermulen played 3 test this year and reads on 9? plus read played super rugby whereas vermulen was in japan. huge difference. reads had a much bigger workload.
i'll take read at 60-70% than most 8's and captains at 100%
a rest over the summer and a curtailed super season and RC and read will come right. he's not far off his usual best and i repeat , read didnt let us down in the darkArts. he was stuck into all the tight stuff and put in lots of tackles and cleanouts.
Well, Vermeulen played 8 during the June series when, from what I understand, he had just played a full season of club rugby in Europe, which is harder than what nzers do. Then he played in Japan, in other words didn’t have a break at all. Whereas, as you say,read was coming back from injury, so he has had a very light workload this year.

Anyway, in terms of saying who is better at the moment it doesn’t matter what possible excuses someone might have for not being at their best.

Vermeulen wasn’t exceptional against Wales, (but he has had a rediculously high workload )
 

Umaga's Witness

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They are desperate to get a NFL: type system of stats and charts into rugby.
Which is nice and all but rugby just doesn't lend themselves to stats like that.

I think they want it like american sports in general, obviously nothing to do with how much work American sports media analysts and statisticians get compared to over here.......

I have a friend who has come over from america to live in NZ (because trump) who is a massive sports fan and has started watching rugby. The other day he said "so how do you judge how good a rugby player is? because you couldn't go by stats". he gets it, it works for other games, not rugby.
 

mania

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WWhereas, as you say,read was coming back from injury, so he has had a very light workload this year.
are you kidding? read missed some super rugby but played all but one of the tests this year.
and to use your quote "Read wasn’t exceptional against Ireland, (but he had a ridiculously high workload )"
dont get me wrong i rate vermulen highly, but i'd still pick read to be captain and starting 8 in my team.
 

Umaga's Witness

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are you kidding? read missed some super rugby but played all but one of the tests this year.
and to use your quote "Read wasn’t exceptional against Ireland, (but he had a ridiculously high workload )"
dont get me wrong i rate vermulen highly, but i'd still pick read to be captain and starting 8 in my team.
well they're both pretty good.
 

mania

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Umaga's Witness

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let me just say that vermulen is a great great player.
but have to say...and French club Racing 92 agree... that read is definately better. like 2 million dollars a year better

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...y-offered-2-million-per-season-by-french-club

i rest my case
Isn’t that more about attracting crowds and advertising revenue though ?

Didn’t realise the media had been giving him all that flack though. They’re nuts, he’s like the best in the world or something
 

The_Blindside

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Look away Ireland fans. It’s being replayed.:rolleyes:
 
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