A great big Munster thread

[Groundhog]

Team for Edinburgh named

Very nice to see Nash starting after he was pulled from Under 20. Clearly very highly rated down south. Very nice backrow who deserve some run. Stong second row. Pretty good team all considered. I'd say two first team players.
Edinburgh have a fairly tasty backrow on them too.

 

[munstermuffin]

Team for Edinburgh named

Very nice to see Nash starting after he was pulled from Under 20. Clearly very highly rated down south. Very nice backrow who deserve some run. Stong second row. Pretty good team all considered. I'd say two first team players.
Edinburgh have a fairly tasty backrow on them too.

We've mixed it nice bit sickened to be here in Edinburgh and home before Saturday game

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Some talk that Regis Sonnes is to come in as Munster's new forwards coach.

 

[munstermuffin]

Some talk that Regis Sonnes is to come in as Munster's new forwards coach.

Has been to few sessions already just as an observer. Has a really interesting story. Currently coaching Bandon in Cork after quitting coaching professionally to come to teach in Bandon. Is well respected in France

 

[Amiga500]

Big Donnacha off to Paris?

Craic is - no central contract and Munster alone can't come close to matching the current wage.

On the face of it, it'd appear more than a little shortsighted by the IRFU to let him go when the international level alternatives are so thin on the ground. The IRFU's logic becomes more confusing given some recent renewals...

 

[Groundhog]

Will seriously cripple our province. This country will rue letting him go.

 

[munstermuffin]

Will seriously cripple our province. This country will rue letting him go.

As I said its not done yet. Much behind scenes happening

 

[munstermuffin]

Big Donnacha off to Paris?

Craic is - no central contract and Munster alone can't come close to matching the current wage.

On the face of it, it'd appear more than a little shortsighted by the IRFU to let him go when the international level alternatives are so thin on the ground. The IRFU's logic becomes more confusing given some recent renewals...

Wait until you see. Trimble is next in firing line. That is Munster argument. 4 days in difference between Ryan and Heaslip. So why give a guy a Central Contract when we have buckets of options in backrow but not a guy in a position we are shallow. Also there's a ripple effect. Van Der Flier wants a CC and Munster and Ulster have opposed as it'd mean Leinster would have 8 to Ulster and Munster 3 and Connacht zero. And a more rippling effect that may hurt Leinster as Furlong and McGrath aren't on CCs and may have repercussions in that if Ryan goes McGrath may also be forced out as he can't get a CC as 2 LHPs can't get them for same province. There is alot of crap and Nucifora is in Australia last I heard so not sure how he is participating

 

[big ginger 8]

Wait until you see. Trimble is next in firing line. That is Munster argument. 4 days in difference between Ryan and Heaslip. So why give a guy a Central Contract when we have buckets of options in backrow but not a guy in a position we are shallow. Also there's a ripple effect. Van Der Flier wants a CC and Munster and Ulster have opposed as it'd mean Leinster would have 8 to Ulster and Munster 3 and Connacht zero. And a more rippling effect that may hurt Leinster as Furlong and McGrath aren't on CCs and may have repercussions in that if Ryan goes McGrath may also be forced out as he can't get a CC as 2 LHPs can't get them for same province. There is alot of crap and Nucifora is in Australia last I heard so not sure how he is participating

If this is really Munster's logic than I'd be worried, yes Ryan should probably get a contract (not a 300k one though) but Heaslips should have nothing to do with it. Similarly it shouldn't matter how the central contracts are distributed as long as the players who we need to keep get them.

McGrath is also in the first year of a new contract so I wouldn't be too worried about him until after next season at the earliest.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

4 days in difference between Ryan and Heaslip.

One has had a lot of injury problems and the other hasn't? Maybe if they hadn't signed around 50 NIQ players they could have afforded to keep him!

Big loss for Munster. Onus is on Jean Kleyn and Billy Holland to carry them through. It'll present Darren O'Shea, Sean McCarthy, John Madigan and Fineen Wycherley with more opportunities which I suspect is what the IRFU want. Donnacha Ryan is playing better than ever but Ireland need to get younger quickly on the second row because beyond Ultan Dillane, Quinn Roux and Iain Henderson, we're woefully short of proper options in their 20s in that position.

 

[Amiga500]

Similarly it shouldn't matter how the central contracts are distributed as long as the players who we need to keep get them.

You said it yourself.

We've a heap of back rows to pick from, not quite as many front rowers but still healthy... but precious little in terms of 2nd rows.

Yeah, the money asked is prob too much for a guy that doesn't have a great injury record - but I'm sure an appearance based contract could be agreed to work that out.

- - - Updated - - -

It'll present Darren O'Shea, Sean McCarthy, John Madigan and Fineen Wycherley with more opportunities which I suspect is what the IRFU want. Donnacha Ryan is playing better than ever but Ireland need to get younger quickly on the second row because beyond Ultan Dillane, Quinn Roux and Iain Henderson, we're woefully short of proper options in their 20s in that position.

So why would you let one of the experienced operators that could teach the kids and be a stable factor in both province and country go.

Pretty f**ked up reasoning if you ask me.

In fact, it has more than a few parallels with J10 going to Paris. I think we could all agree that was a major f**kup on the IRFU's part - which funnily enough also had a similar big money renewal not long before it.

 

[munstermuffin]

If this is really Munster's logic than I'd be worried, yes Ryan should probably get a contract (not a 300k one though) but Heaslips should have nothing to do with it. Similarly it shouldn't matter how the central contracts are distributed as long as the players who we need to keep get them.

McGrath is also in the first year of a new contract so I wouldn't be too worried about him until after next season at the earliest.

No just used as reason was he was told he was too old originally.
On central contracts. McGraths deal is up before Healys. So can I ask would it be best served having a player sitting on bench over others?
On where contracts go it does matter regarding where contracts go it matters regarding budgets for provinces.

On last bit I agree but guess by that you are equally saying so it is right Van Der Flier shouldn't get the deal he is after? As you say the players that deserve them have them so POM SOB and Heaslip is backrow and all deserve it and IRFU don't want to give too many to 1 spot?

Also can I add Ryan isn't asking â'¬300k. With his tax rebate here he would beed less to equal that. â'¬230k was figure.
Now I don't like reverting to Heaslip. But I'd ask is â'¬530k on 3 year deal for Heaslip in a well stocked backrow options better than â'¬230k 2 year deal for Ryan in area we are shallow?
And that's not saying Heaslip is poor or not worth money more an honest question.

 

[munstermuffin]

One has had a lot of injury problems and the other hasn't? Maybe if they hadn't signed around 50 NIQ players they could have afforded to keep him!

Big loss for Munster. Onus is on Jean Kleyn and Billy Holland to carry them through. It'll present Darren O'Shea, Sean McCarthy, John Madigan and Fineen Wycherley with more opportunities which I suspect is what the IRFU want. Donnacha Ryan is playing better than ever but Ireland need to get younger quickly on the second row because beyond Ultan Dillane, Quinn Roux and Iain Henderson, we're woefully short of proper options in their 20s in that position.

But equally we haven't signed many NIQs out of budget. But at least by this logic when Van Der Flier who is rumoured to be next to go if he doesn't get his deal then I'm sure some will say same.
On Donnacha Ryan injury record it was really only 1 big injury that kept him out for 18months. But this equally means there will be more milage in front of him.
I agree it will open opportunities for others bit equally big onus now on Henderson, Toner and Dillane as they are the only 3 up to standard for international level and while there is others who may fulfil potential it'll ne tight for World Cup.
People forget if he goes too his career in green is done.

 

[munstermuffin]

And I'll add personally I think thos will seriously hurt Ireland more than Munster. Kleyn and Holland will survive at this level with Dillane in line for 2018-19.
At International level there is a difference.
Also we may look to sign another NIQ lock and the rumour is we will get go ahead for that which may raise questions further on logic.

2 guys on Trimble and Ryan look set to be lost to Irish rugby and both have so much more to give.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Losing Ryan is bad for Irish rugby. Equally, the IRFU and Munster can't be held to ransom. If they don't value him at the salary he's getting from Racing Metro, they shouldn't stretch to pay him. Same went for Johnny Sexton, Marty Moore and Ian Madigan in the recent past.

The number of NIQ players on Munster's books is often used as a stick to beat them with. Wrongly in my opinion. John Ryan, Niall Scannell, Jack O'Donoghue, Billy Holland and Andrew Conway have pushed on and become internationals this season despite the increased number of foreign players. Rory Scannell and Darren Sweetnam aren't a million miles away either.

 

[munstermuffin]

Losing Ryan is bad for Irish rugby. Equally, the IRFU and Munster can't be held to ransom. If they don't value him at the salary he's getting from Racing Metro, they shouldn't stretch to pay him. Same went for Johnny Sexton, Marty Moore and Ian Madigan in the recent past.

The number of NIQ players on Munster's books is often used as a stick to beat them with. Wrongly in my opinion. John Ryan, Niall Scannell, Jack O'Donoghue, Billy Holland and Andrew Conway have pushed on and become internationals this season despite the increased number of foreign players. Rory Scannell and Darren Sweetnam aren't a million miles away either.

True but the issue is Munster can only offer â'¬180k max. Ryan want â'¬230-235k. The issue was the original reason was his age. And fact National Contracts are being stuck to 14 or 15max.
On NIQs people miss alot.
Kleyn and Marshall on very little cash
Taute on a small bit more.
Saili overpaid on my eyes but being released.
Tyler isn't on alot and is IQ so he isn't viewed as NIQ next year.
On rest people think we had alot BUT
Chisolm is being payed by insurance and cant play. Costing us nothing.
Du Toit was loan and cheap.
Deysel is same and Toma gone
Griesel isn't even on contract here. So people think we have had so many NIQs but it all short term deals replacing other NIQs.

On internationals we have produced. You're right but thing is and it's a big fright. Lock is very poor.
I will ask can you see Billy Holland as a World Cup standard lock for us?
Because as it is
Henderson - Potential but still not fully convincing as Ulster want him at 6 and he seems to prefer there.
Toner - Was dropped recently but more how will he be going forward.
Dillane - Is good but equally can be bad and racking injuries.
Billy H - In superb form and good squad player.


Would we all be happy with them as out 4 locks? Quinn Roux is there also but he isn't of standard if we are honest. Lock is an area every province isn't going well at

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Would we all be happy with them as out 4 locks? Quinn Roux is there also but he isn't of standard if we are honest. Lock is an area every province isn't going well at

Not sure I completely agree. At the top end there isn't much depth. Lots of young talent behind though. Ross Molony is only 22, has almost 40 appearances for Leinster, is a great lineout operator and developing other areas of his game. James Ryan should get a lot of chances with Leinster next year with Mike McCarthy and Hayden Triggs being moved on. Kieran Treadwell is a 21 year old lock with 17 Ulster appearances who has improved as the season has progressed and will benefit hugely from Jono Gibbes' coaching. Munster's raft of young second rows will get more opportunities from next season and they'll be surrounded by experienced internationals to help them rather than average pros.

Back on topic, thought it was interesting that Rassie Erasmus didn't completely rule out a return to South Africa today. He'd be an enormous loss as he's been key to Munster's resurgence.

 

[munstermuffin]

Not sure I completely agree. At the top end there isn't much depth. Lots of young talent behind though. Ross Molony is only 22, has almost 40 appearances for Leinster, is a great lineout operator and developing other areas of his game. James Ryan should get a lot of chances with Leinster next year with Mike McCarthy and Hayden Triggs being moved on. Kieran Treadwell is a 21 year old lock with 17 Ulster appearances who has improved as the season has progressed and will benefit hugely from Jono Gibbes' coaching. Munster's raft of young second rows will get more opportunities from next season and they'll be surrounded by experienced internationals to help them rather than average pros.

Back on topic, thought it was interesting that Rassie Erasmus didn't completely rule out a return to South Africa today. He'd be an enormous loss as he's been key to Munster's resurgence.

Rassie is a very smary guy. He's playing a game with IRFU and SARU. I don't see him going. He has 1 eye on that ball and the other on Ireland post 2019 RWC.
But on all 2nd rows named I'd say being fair it unlikey any of Leinster lads you mentioned will in reckoning otherwise big bucks wouldn't be spent on Fardy. For us there's a few but again can't see any at level for 2019. Dave O'Callaghan will play more as 2nd row I'd expect.
Maybe I'm wrong on young guys but can't see any bolting to be international level in next 2/3 years. All our young locks lack that bit of aggression I feel. Darren O'Shea has the physical ability for exqmple but you need the agression.

 

[munstermuffin]

Wow must say Munster are ready for war. Think I just witnessed 1 of most barbaric trainings in a LONG LONG time.
It's great to be back in business on European QF week.

 

[Gavin]

Wow must say Munster are ready for war. Think I just witnessed 1 of most barbaric trainings in a LONG LONG time.
It's great to be back in business on European QF week.

Should be a great QF this weekend. As luck might have it I will be on Toulouse this weekend. I may be the only one in the city in a Munster top.