Aviva Premiership Final 2015 Bath V Saracens

[ncurd]

Bath:

15 Anthony Watson 14 Semesa Rokoduguni 13 Jonathan Joseph 12 Kyle Eastmond 11 Matt Banahan 10 George Ford 9 Peter Stringer 1 Paul James 2 Ross Batty 3 David Wilson 4 Stuart Hooper (c) 5 Dave Attwood 6 Sam Burgess 7 Francois Louw 8 Leroy Houston
Replacements:
16 Rob Webber 17 Nick Auterac 18 Henry Thomas 19 Dominic Day 20 Matt Garvey 21 Carl Fearns 22 Chris Cook 23 Ollie Devoto

Can't argue with the backs division after last week (can't believe it's taken all season to realise we should be going with Stringer then Cook) but I'm amazed were unchanged up front. Specifically what on Earth is James doing still starting? He got destroyed by Cole last week (most would TBF) but I don't think he offers enough compared to Auterac. And as a great a servant as Hooper is I think we'd be better served having Day or Garvey start.

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Saracens:

15 Alex Goode 14 David Strettle 13 Duncan Taylor 12 Brad Barritt 11 Chris Wyles 10 Owen Farrell 9 Richard Wigglesworth 1 Mako Vunipola 2 Jamie George 3 Petrus Du Plessis 4 George Kruis 5 Alistair Hargreaves 6 Maro Itoje 7 Jacques Burger 8 Billy Vunipola

Replacements:
16 Schalk Brits 17 Richard Barrington 18 Juan Figallo 19 Jim Hamilton 20 Jackson Wray 21 Neil de Kock 22 Charlie Hodgson 23 Chris Ashton

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Wyles to start over Ashton...is this normal? Or is it just because Wyles is way better defensively than Ashton (not hard) and they are playing Bath who could make Ashton look a right prat (well moreso than normal).

 

[chippieolamus]

Edit: Posted team but ^ was ahead of me!

Only surprise is that ashton is still on bench and Bosch is still out of the squad.

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Wyles to start over Ashton...is this normal? Or is it just because Wyles is way better defensively than Ashton (not hard) and they are playing Bath who could make Ashton look a right prat (well moreso than normal).

Wyles has been probably been our player of the season this year, so he had to fit in somewhere. Ash was badly sick last week so I assume he's still suffering a little, hence why he was the one who dropped out.

 

[Crapspray]

Hasn't Wyles scored something like 12 tries this season, despite having no set position in the backline? That's not a bad achievement considering.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was about defence though; Sarries are unlikely to try and outplay Bath. Sad really. Ashton defending Banahan/Rokoduguni could have been amusing.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Wyles also works as a sweeping fullback much more effectively than Ashton. With the ability of the Bath centres to cut through this could be vital. Same reason we've chosen Taylor over Bosch I presume, just to try and stifle Bath in the centres then cover with wingers if they break.

Just a theory though. Would like to see Stretts answer a few shouts and score a try.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Can't argue with the backs division after last week (can't believe it's taken all season to realise we should be going with Stringer then Cook) but I'm amazed were unchanged up front. Specifically what on Earth is James doing still starting? He got destroyed by Cole last week (most would TBF) but I don't think he offers enough compared to Auterac. And as a great a servant as Hooper is I think we'd be better served having Day or Garvey start.

I agree with literally every word of that. Isn't it nice when we all get along?!

I'm also going to Twickers tomorrow and really, really, really excited about the game ... while also very nervous. I can't help thinking that:

a) All the media orgasming over Bath's back play ignored some fairly fundamental weaknesses, especially scrummaging (obviously); poor tactical kicking; and all those goddamm stupid penalties.
b) Saracens will not let those mistakes go unpunished anything like Leicester did (except for the scrum), and will not be so toothless in attack - we won't defend for 30 minutes, including 8 minutes with 13 men, against Saracens for only 10 points, no way
c) They will also defend better, Leicester fell for the dummy runners far, far more than they should have, and Saracens will definitely not be that poor.
d) There has been a pattern this year of Bath getting smashed hard physically at the breakdown, coping with it poorly, losing their discipline and giving away stupid penalties and cards - Northampton, Leicester, Wasps, Sarries, Leinster have all done it successfully. Guess what Saracens will do at Twickenham tomorrow?!

Hasn't Wyles scored something like 12 tries this season, despite having no set position in the backline? That's not a bad achievement considering.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was about defence though; Sarries are unlikely to try and outplay Bath. Sad really. Ashton defending Banahan/Rokoduguni could have been amusing.

I would have loved to see that.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Breakdown will clearly be the most important factor - by ****ing miles.

 

[ncurd]

I'm also going to Twickers tomorrow and really, really, really excited about the game ... while also very nervous. I can't help thinking that:

I wish I was going I tried to justify it my budget this month but simply couldn't....stupid holiday.

I've been twice before, once for Dallaglio's last game which was pretty cool and the other was way back 2004 that was a depressing day (got commiserated by a bunch of London Irish fans) but still it's a great day out.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I wish I was going I tried to justify it my budget this month but simply couldn't....stupid holiday.

I've been twice before, once for Dallaglio's last game which was pretty cool and the other was way back 2004 that was a depressing day (got commiserated by a bunch of London Irish fans) but still it's a great day out.

I went in 2004 too, can barely remember the day though if I'm honest. Tomorrow should be a great day out, but it could also be a real agonising one. That's the thing about finals, says Captain Obvious.

I feel your pain about the money, fortunately I live in London so don't need to factor in the accommodation and travel costs which helps

Breakdown will clearly be the most important factor - by ****ing miles.

It will be huge - I think if we can get almost-parity we'll be seriously in the running though. Lineout will also be big, no surprises that Ford has gone with Batty which makes ours much more reliable if not a serious weapon. We really need to sort out the maul defence though, learn that 7 points is often better than losing a man, and STOP GIVING AWAY ****ING PENALTIES WHICH CAN BE KICKED TO THE CORNER!!!!

 

[ZeroTwo]

Breakdown will clearly be the most important factor - by ****ing miles.

Yeah, will be interesting if both teams can cover for Burger/Burgess who IMO are both weak in the ruck. They both also null each other in terms of attack/defence. Will be the best battle of the day for me.

 

[ncurd]

2004 I only really remember two things.

The European playoff game (why don't we have that anymore it was pretty cool) mainly as it was Sale vs somebody and sheer excitement level that ran through crowd whenever Jason Robinson got the ball.

The other was walking back to Uni halls in Surbiton after the game due to completely misjuding the actual distance taking way longer than I intended. I believe when I got back I had a 12 hour drinking session that led to the invention of Irish Tea (half tea, half whiskey).

 

[yaboyjj]

I'll be hiding behind the sofa hoping that Ford and Joseph pull through without the inevitable injury- considering the recent furor RE Tuilagi/Hartley, an injury to either of those guys would be a disastrous start to WC training. I hope Itoje and the Vunipolas get through unscathed also.
This could be sink or swim time for Burgess- maybe a bit naive to play him in this game as starting blindside. I agree with the above- the breakdown will be king.

 

[munstermuffin]

Stringer to win a medal please

 

[91jmay]

Itoje could do with a performance. Ordinary against Saints in his two outings. Needs to justify the big talent he has.

 

[chippieolamus]

Itoje could do with a performance. Ordinary against Saints in his two outings. Needs to justify the big talent he has.

I don't agree that he was ordinary. Sure, he wasn't at his best in either game but he still performed better than a lot of players from both sides. You can't expect him to be MOTM every game, talented though he may be.

 

[91jmay]

I don't agree that he was ordinary. Sure, he wasn't at his best in either game but he still performed better than a lot of players from both sides. You can't expect him to be MOTM every game, talented though he may be.

He was taken off after an hour (and also sacrificed in the bin when front row replacement needed). Wood and Clark both outplayed him. He was ok, nothing more. One big smash on Lawes and nothing else of note.

 

[chippieolamus]

He was taken off after an hour (and also sacrificed in the bin when front row replacement needed). Wood and Clark both outplayed him. He was ok, nothing more. One big smash on Lawes and nothing else of note.

It seems that according to you all of the Northampton players 'outplayed' the Sarries players, so I'm not quite sure how Sarries won?

 

[Every Time Ref]

This could be sink or swim time for Burgess- maybe a bit naive to play him in this game as starting blindside. I agree with the above- the breakdown will be king.

I know what you mean, but he is one of very few known big game players in Bath's inexperienced squad, and the amount of carrying and tackling work he'll get through is important. Also gives us the opportunity to bring Fearns on late against tiring legs

Yeah, will be interesting if both teams can cover for Burger/Burgess who IMO are both weak in the ruck. They both also null each other in terms of attack/defence. Will be the best battle of the day for me.

Also Burger on Ford - I suspect they'll put Burger on Ford as much as possible hoping to knock him off his stride, but if Ford can get outside him and make Faz make a decision outside him...

 

[ncurd]

You can always rely on Guscott for hyperbole and bigging us up a little too much. Can't blame him he's a Bath lad through and through. But we're like New Zealand? Slightly mad.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32916895

Personally my heart says Bath will win mainly as a supporter and the fact I belive we play the attractive brand of Rugby everyone wishes every side would take up.

My head says Sarries are too good defensively and have enough in attack to actually score with the possession Leicester had last week.

The game it too close to call though Bath really have ability to produce scores from nowhere, completely contrary to run of play and field position. A few moments like that and Sarries still have to beat those points.

TBH I'm hoping this turns out to be a really good game. Almost perfect weather forecast so at least that won't effect the game.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm weirdly the other way. My head says Bath, because we were comfortably better throughout the season (reflected in the final standings) and the only time the two teams met at full strength we outperformed them in pretty much all areas. We need to seriously hit that breakdown though, maybe commit more bodies than we're used to. It's my nervous, we-haven't-won-anything-in-so-long heart which kicks in from time to time and gives me panic attacks!

Anyway, predicting finals is a mug's game even for the neutral.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I hope that the nerves get too bath. Joseph and Ford both had great 6 nations though so I don't think this will really get too them. In the league both teams dismantled each other at home so let's see what happens.
Billy will have a big game and show Burgess what real carrying is