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Elton Jantjies - Not SA's solution at Fly Half

Since this thread is about Jantjies I will post my reply here.

TRF_Heineken: It is obvious you have an agenda against - I mean, you even created a separate thread to vent! - so I will gladly rain on your parade.

To start off - My rating for EJ in this game is a 6.0.

I watched the game again last night. I didn't see any kicks not finding touch from penalties as you alluded to in the match thread. The Blow-by-blow of the match also doesn't show any of the sort. The accuracy of his kicks in play was perhaps not as good. Also, I can't even recall the backline having a run on 1st phase. The forwards did almost every thing and the backs defended mostly and only got into the game in the loose exchanges, which is clearly the tactics employed by the Boks.

The match stats reads Aus having 55% possession and 53% territory. The total kicks in the match were 46 (23 a piece), however, SA made more kicking metres (868) than Aus (724), a direct correlation to the possession and territory stats. Considering Aus had more possession and better territory and SA gained more ground with kicks, you can draw a conclusion that the kicks made by SA was for territory, so always aiming further up the pitch thus less chance of finding touch, but obviously didn't bode well as Folau just waits for them and is able to hit back.

It was a below par performance from him. His decision making & kicking execution wasn't as effective and he conceded 1 of the many penalties the team gave away. But it was by no means a bad performance after-all. He fielded almost all of his kicks, (2 conversions, 3 penalties, 1 penalties miss), the 1st conversion a difficult one from the corner and the 2nd one he landed to level the scores again at 20-20, which what I could remember feeling was a pressure moment.

He therefore he gets a 6.0 rating instead of a just 5.0. He didn't quite bottle this performance like he did in the SR QF vs Sharks and I think he deserves more credit.
 
Since this thread is about Jantjies I will post my reply here.

TRF_Heineken: It is obvious you have an agenda against - I mean, you even created a separate thread to vent! - so I will gladly rain on your parade.

To start off - My rating for EJ in this game is a 6.0.

Hi George! Yes, this was a thread to express my dissatisfaction with our current flyhalf and his performance (amongst other things) not being up to standard.

I watched the game again last night. I didn't see any kicks not finding touch from penalties as you alluded to in the match thread. The Blow-by-blow of the match also doesn't show any of the sort. The accuracy of his kicks in play was perhaps not as good. Also, I can't even recall the backline having a run on 1st phase. The forwards did almost every thing and the backs defended mostly and only got into the game in the loose exchanges, which is clearly the tactics employed by the Boks.

Please have a look at this video to see the contrary. And more specifically the kick on the 41:30 mark:



That penalty was on our own 5m line, and if he kicked it out we would have won a lineout, and most probably have kept the ball until the halftime whistle blew. Instead Folau runs it back, and we end up giving them 3 points...

The match stats reads Aus having 55% possession and 53% territory. The total kicks in the match were 46 (23 a piece), however, SA made more kicking metres (868) than Aus (724), a direct correlation to the possession and territory stats. Considering Aus had more possession and better territory and SA gained more ground with kicks, you can draw a conclusion that the kicks made by SA was for territory, so always aiming further up the pitch thus less chance of finding touch, but obviously didn't bode well as Folau just waits for them and is able to hit back.

Can't disagree here. But those stats doesn't paint the whole picture in how Elton kicked. straight down Folau's throat, a kick in goal for a 22m drop out, deep kicks without any chasers, allowing a quick throw-in...

It was a below par performance from him. His decision making & kicking execution wasn't as effective and he conceded 1 of the many penalties the team gave away. But it was by no means a bad performance after-all. He fielded almost all of his kicks, (2 conversions, 3 penalties, 1 penalties miss), the 1st conversion a difficult one from the corner and the 2nd one he landed to level the scores again at 20-20, which what I could remember feeling was a pressure moment.

It certainly was a below par performance. And again, if you read what I was saying in the match thread, his goal kicking was very good, but that wasn't the problem this time, it was his decision making. His lack of distribution, and the aimless kicks he made.

He therefore he gets a 6.0 rating instead of a just 5.0. He didn't quite bottle this performance like he did in the SR QF vs Sharks and I think he deserves more credit.

That's your opinion, and I respect that. I guess I just put my Springbok fly halves in a higher regard. If I were to give him a point out of 10, it would have been a 3, maybe a 4.
 
@TRF_heineken , out of interest who would be your starting 10 if everyone were available? and who would be on the bench as FH replacement?
 
@TRF_heineken , out of interest who would be your starting 10 if everyone were available? and who would be on the bench as FH replacement?

If everyone were available?

Handre Pollard
Pat Lambie
Johan Goosen
Demetri Katrakillis
Curwin Bosch
Damian Willemse
Lionel Cronje
Elton Jantjies
Peter Grant
Francois Brummer
Robert Du Preez

Seems like that should be the list of potential choices.

So I'll pick Pollard first, then Lambie, and then it's between Cronje/Goosen/Bosch after them. Elton, Katrakillis, Grant and Brummer would be in the same bracket for me, with young Willemse and Du Preez as the dark horses...
 
Was surprised this thread didn't pop-up, although, everything has been said I guess. This article pretty much sums it up for me:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/jantjies-or-pollard-to-start-against-ireland-20171010

Pretty much my personal take. I am pretty certain that Elton the "bottler" had the best penalty and conversion kick rate of any starting fly half in this RC. Sanchez had a couple of iffy games and was below par, Foley was downright appalling in two games and BB did alright by his usual below average standards. Yet there are no threads on those guys and no calls for their heads. Not a single post all year calling them "bottlers". I must confess that that disparity gets my goat - why is one subjected to so much scrutiny when others get a free pass? I could understand if Pollard had been fit all year and had a wonderful Super Rugby season.

It's a great debate though, probably the most contentious in world rugby at the moment now that Cruden vs Beauden has been put to bed (DMac vs Bender is another good one). I hope Pollard keeps his fitness and builds on the promising flashes he had in this latest match. I think AC might pick Pollard in the EOYT and will have hated that "banana kick" into touch by Elton - in surprised he hasn't ragged on Elton again publicily after that!

Personally I'd wait until June and make the jersey Pollard's IF

- Elton doesn't step up to a higher level in the EOYTs
AND
- Pollard shows more ability with ball in hand in a consistent basis in Super Rugby

Jantjies has played to okay international standard this year, far better than the Bok selections at scrum half, outside centre and probably on a par with Skosan (a little disappointing but loads of talent) and Coetzee (solid but unspectacular). As a neutral observer the Boks have bigger issues in some of those positions, whereas at flyhalf they have two decent option with confirmed pedigree at international level.
 
That article isn't the only one doing the rounds. there's a video on facebook by that guy from SARugbymag also saying the same thing.

Zinzan Brooke also made a comment last week before the test that Jantjies is under pressure. And here is the crux. Jantjies doesn't have BMT. And that started to show last year during the Ireland tour. He got yanked from the after missing a pretty easy kick at goal, his 3rd miss of that night, which we nearly lost.

This year the trend was just continuing. Missing kicks at goal at crucial times, and even missing kicks into touch. He just doesn't have it.
 
Foley was downright appalling in two games ... Yet there are no threads on those guys and no calls for their heads.

Apples and oranges, sadly. Much to my chagrin Australia's appreciation for a kicking game and expectations of a kicker fall well below that of the country that produced Morne Steyn and Naas Botha...
 

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