England v Wales

[An Tarbh]

Wales travel to Twickenham looking for their 4th win on the trot against England.

England finished last year's championship promisingly and but for a few scores either way could have been champions, rehashing Robinson's old excuses does reek of desperation but there you go. On the other hand their form in the Autumn was woeful, so given the players available this time round what can we expect from England?

Wales have the Lee Byrne appeal hanging over them so they'd like to see that sorted as quickly as possible, no Peel and Phillips though is a big loss for me.

Opening day wins against the English have been the impetus for the Welsh to go on and achieve their last 4 grand slams so could history be set to repeat itself if Wales win on Saturday?

 

[dullonien]

Should be a good match. No idea what the outcome will be yet.

The Welsh pack should have a slight advantage over Englands, but it won't be much. Infact I doubt there'll be any difference in the scrumsand linouts, but it's around the park that I see the Welsh pack coming good. Gethin, Rees and Adam up front get through alot of work.

In the backs, alot will depend on Lee Byrne's appeal, he's such a pivotal player for Wales at the moment. If he doesn't play, then one of Hook, Roberts, Halfpenny and Dan Evans will fill the void. Hook offers nothing from fullback imo. He's not that solid under the high ball and he doesn't hit the line in the way a fullback should. I'd presonally play Hook in the centre and move jamie Roberts back for a game, with Bishop at 13 alongside Hook. It's maybe not totally fair on Roberts, who hasn't played at 15 for a while, but he'll do the job imo. Bishop also deserves his place in the starting 15.

I'm gonna predict a Wales win if Lee Byrne is playing, a narrow loss if not.

 

[Prestwick]

I'd be very interested to see if Johnno taps Flutey and Hape to the center and if they're paired up with Hodgson and Wilko. I think that combination would work pretty well.

Want to see some Courtney Lawes rampaging across the field with fire coming out of his mouth. That'd be pretty awesome.

England narrow win. Possibly by 3 points.

 

[dullonien]

I hope England don't pick Lawes, good thing Johnson (/Andrew) is picking the team then! With Borthwick being captain, and Shaw almost guaranteed his place, Lawes will only make the bench at best.

Can anybody atall explain why Borthwick is still captain, and still starting? England have so many option at lock, Lawes and Kennedy being prime examples imo. Why stick with Borthwick who's been average at best, for a few years now? Shaw and Lawes would make a great pairing imo. Oh well, England's loss....

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jan 31 2010, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Can anybody atall explain why Borthwick is still captain,[/b]

 

[Prestwick]

Class of 2003 old mates club as well, Mite, don't forget the class of 2003 old mates club...

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jan 31 2010, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Can anybody atall explain why Borthwick is still captain, and still starting? England have so many option at lock, Lawes and Kennedy being prime examples imo. Why stick with Borthwick who's been average at best, for a few years now? Shaw and Lawes would make a great pairing imo. Oh well, England's loss....[/b]

Because Martin Johnson picked him as soon as he started (for reasons stated above by Mite and Prestwick), so to choose someone else would be to say that he was wrong in doing so, and he'll never admit he's done anything wrong...



I think England have got a good chance, we've actually got an inside centre, unlike in the AIs, and some decent backs, also a couple of players returning from injury, so our team is getting back to 'full strength'
I think it'll be very close, 3 points either way, i reckon

I hope that Tait starts over Hape, but i reckon Hape starting with Tait on the bench (Tait being, in Johnsons eyes, a utility back, despite only playing 13 for the past two years for Sale) is more likely

 

[Thingimubob]

Not sure which way this is going to go, and am very worried England will win, espeically if Byrne is out. It's all down to whether we get our game plan right, I mean we havent actually 'clicked as a team since we beat Australia in 08. Even in the decent wins against Scotland, England and Argentina it felt like we were still under-performing a bit. Anyway this is the team I'd pick if Byrne is ruled out:

(Pack picks itself tbh)
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris (not 100% convinced by him though, if Ian Evans hadnt have got injured and got more game time, he'd be here)
6. Andy Powell (who's actually been impressive for the Blues recently)
7. Martyn Williams
8. Ryan Jones
9. Richie Rees
10. Stephen Jones
11. Shane Williams
12. James Hook
13. Andrew Bishop
14. Leigh Halfpenny
15. Jamie Roberts

However I reckon Gatlands probably gonna pick a backline of:

9. Gareth Cooper
10. Stephen Jones
11. Shane Williams
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Tom Shanklin
14. Leigh Halfpenny
15. James Hook

 

[Prestwick]

You've put Roberts at 15. I R confused.

Is it because you want to see Roberts running the ball from deep?

 

[An Tarbh]

Think your take on Gatland's backline is a bit more on the money, don't see the sense in playing Roberts at full back, he'll be chomping at the bit for this game having been kept so quiet in last years game, won't have as much impact from full back. Think Hook would be the better option unless the appeal is successful though.

 

[Bullitt]

I personally hope Byrnes appeal is successful; It'll be unbearable around here when Lora makes his return and harps on about how "Wales only lost because those cheating English ******** got Byrne banned"...

 

[Ozzay]

If this was in Cardiff i would be confident, but its not, i'm worried. <_<

Anyway. i think most welsh people can predict what the sides going to look like, and most of us won't agree.

its probaly going to look something like this.

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew rees
3. Adam Jones
4. AWJ
5. Charteris
6. Powell
7. Williams
8. Jones

9. Cooper
10. Jones
11. Shane
12 Roberts/Hook
13 Roberts/Shanklin
14. Halfpenny
15. Byrne/Hook

Just the way Gatland is, i can't see him throwing Bishop in if Byrne loses his appeal.
Hopefully Rees will play 9.
Powells been playing well aswell.
I'd like to see the Hook Roberts combo. Bishops a quality player but i don't think we'd get much creativity from it.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Feb 1 2010, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I personally hope Byrnes appeal is successful; It'll be unbearable around here when Lora makes his return and harps on about how "Wales only lost because those cheating English ******** got Byrne banned"...[/b]

Yeah, i was thinking that as well, an (unlikely) win should be untainted


On a related note, Guscott blabbing on about how wales are soft in the head, but skilled, not like ireland who are the other way round, or some cr*p:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_unio...lsh/8490504.stm

 

[dullonien]

The reason I'd pick Roberts at fullback if Byrne is ruled out, is because we need Hook in the centre more than we need Roberts. Bishop is the form centre in Wales at this moment, and he and Hook played well together against Leicester for the Ospreys. Without Hook, our centres are too one dimensional. We've got a ton of very good crash ball options in the form of Roberts, Shanklin, Bishop and Davies, but we've got no creative option other than Hook.

Therefore, if Hook playes centre (12 or 13), and Lee Byrne is ruled out, we need a fullback. Our options are to draft a specialist fullback into the team, Daniel Evans or Tovey are the sensible options, or move Roberts or Halfpenny to cover. Halfpenny has had a few mediocre appearances at fullback for the Blues this season, so it's a no for him. Daniel Evans is playing well, and with confidence, but it's a huge ask to throw him or Tovey into such a big game at short notice. That leaves us with Jamie Roberts who'll do a good job imo. He's solid under the high ball (better than Hook), + imagine Roberts running from deep onto a crash ball, could cause havok! The only down side with Roberts, is his lack of good boot.

There is one other option......... Gatland could play Tom Prydie. As Jonathan Davies said on Scrum V, that would be a brave brave call!

Maybe Byrne will play, then all this is just pointless.

 

[Olyy]

I didn't watch Scrum V yesterday, but apparently Gatland said Hook is a maybe, as he's not doing contact training (which he repeated several times throughout the show), so if he's out, as well as Byrne, then that's bad for Wales

 

[dullonien]

Nah Hook is fit. He's apparently carrying a small knock from the Boxing Day match. Nothing that stops him from playing, it's just a bit painful. The pain is the reason Hook isn't doing full contact work, just giving the lad a break, not that he physically can't. It's the kind of knock that won't get any worse, but might need a bit of syrgery to put right in the off season if it's still painful.

 

[Bluemoon]

Roberts at full back is an option. He actually has a very big kick, its just we never see it anymore. Although, he hasn't played there for a while so it'd be a big risk.

I wouldn't throw Tovey or Evans in on this game - they are not experienced enough at this level and England will take advantage of it. Also, Halfpenny had a dire game at fullback for the blues this season, constantly out of position and really didn't play very well (Glasgow I think). I think the ban will be reduced anyway so its probably not important. It needs to be Hook or Byrne though, thats for sure.

If Byrne is in, heres my team..

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. A. Wyn-Jones
5. Bradely Davies/Ian Gough
6. Andy Powell
7. Martyn Williams
8. Ryan Jones

9. Richie Rees
10. Stephen Jones
11. Shane Williams
12 Jamie Roberts
13 James Hook
14. Leigh Halfpenny
15. Lee Byrne

 

[Ozzay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 1 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The reason I'd pick Roberts at fullback if Byrne is ruled out, is because we need Hook in the centre more than we need Roberts. Bishop is the form centre in Wales at this moment, and he and Hook played well together against Leicester for the Ospreys. Without Hook, our centres are too one dimensional. We've got a ton of very good crash ball options in the form of Roberts, Shanklin, Bishop and Davies, but we've got no creative option other than Hook.[/b]

Can't knock that

 

[Thingimubob]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 1 2010, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You've put Roberts at 15. I R confused.

Is it because you want to see Roberts running the ball from deep?[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 1 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The reason I'd pick Roberts at fullback if Byrne is ruled out, is because we need Hook in the centre more than we need Roberts. Bishop is the form centre in Wales at this moment, and he and Hook played well together against Leicester for the Ospreys. Without Hook, our centres are too one dimensional. We've got a ton of very good crash ball options in the form of Roberts, Shanklin, Bishop and Davies, but we've got no creative option other than Hook.

Therefore, if Hook playes centre (12 or 13), and Lee Byrne is ruled out, we need a fullback. Our options are to draft a specialist fullback into the team, Daniel Evans or Tovey are the sensible options, or move Roberts or Halfpenny to cover. Halfpenny has had a few mediocre appearances at fullback for the Blues this season, so it's a no for him. Daniel Evans is playing well, and with confidence, but it's a huge ask to throw him or Tovey into such a big game at short notice. That leaves us with Jamie Roberts who'll do a good job imo. He's solid under the high ball (better than Hook), + imagine Roberts running from deep onto a crash ball, could cause havok! The only down side with Roberts, is his lack of good boot.

There is one other option......... Gatland could play Tom Prydie. As Jonathan Davies said on Scrum V, that would be a brave brave call!

Maybe Byrne will play, then all this is just pointless.[/b]

Fullback is actually the position Roberts broke onto the profesional stage in, so not as if he doesnt know how to play there! He played plenty of solid games there for the Blues against the likes of Stade Francais and Bath. He had a good game there vs South Africa when Byrne was injured too. Disagree that he hasnt got a good boot as well - it's actually pretty good (obviously not the same as Byrnes) just we never see it now he's shifted to centre. So I';d say he'd be a very tidy replacement if Byrne is out, especially since he's developed loads as a player since his first profesional season and could offer a hell of a lot in running lines from deep.
Still hopefully it'll never come to that, and he'll be alongside Hook in the centre with Byrne at Fullback.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Bishop should start alongside Hook. Roberts isn't in good enough form right now. (In fact, the only two good games I've seen from him all season where against Quins in the HEC and the All-Blacks for the Baa-Baas. Is the fact that one of them was recent a good enough reason for him to be picked?) Bishop isn't the strongest crash-ball centre, but defensivly, is the best back in Wales, plus he's began to make some good breaks this season. (The one Vs. Ulster where he ran from 22 to 22 to set up Nikki Walker sticks in my mind.)