[EOYT] France vs South Africa 23/11/13

[Gena_ZA]

"Are you saying the French if they manage all these points would still lose ? If so I disagree completely, but I'm not sure but it really looks like that's what you're saying."

You are right and wrong, right in what I said and wrong as it will not happen. For any team to do everything perfect in a struggling season is wishful thinking/supporters optimism.

 

[Gena_ZA]

"Much as I love Kolbe I would cringe if he were selected to play for the Bok side" - The smiley at the end should have stated my intentions..

 

[Big Ewis]

I completely disagree about defense. Sure SA has an advantage in terms of the line-out, and possibly maul (though France aren't avg. in that field either).

S.A. haven't managed good defense on the All-Blacks, neither of the times they played them. They conceded 4 tries in Auckland, then 5 at home in Jo-Burg. And in terms of a clinical, downright scary attack, the All-Blacks reign supreme.
Even in test 2 we played the AB in NZ, the one where we got smashed 30-0, we conceded 3 tries, not more. Tests 1 and 3 we conceded 2 tries each. And needless to repeat that when they came to Paris, our defense was the best I've seen all year, by a healthy margin, of any side on them.

The fact that S.A. hasn't conceded a try against Wales and Scotland this year means they're good. But it doesn't mean they're great. In fact when Wales started the match two weeks ago they were making good breaks, but never managed to score.

So I disagree SA have a better defense, especially when they've conceded 4 then 5 tries against the AB, including one try NZ scored with 14 men, and it wasn't close.

Defensively, France will have to be right at the top of their form, produce smt like against the All-Blacks. It will be very hard, and we may not manage it, but we can do it.
South Africa have to make sure they leave nothing to the French on attack, and saturate any potential awakening and good sensations on attack the French will want to harvest.

 

[Gena_ZA]

"weight and power merely need oil to work, and that oil will be the organic electricity" - and that concludes todays class on Chemical and Biological warfare - see you tomorrow

Soz, just had to

 

[Big Ewis]

"Are you saying the French if they manage all these points would still lose ? If so I disagree completely, but I'm not sure but it really looks like that's what you're saying."

You are right and wrong, right in what I said and wrong as it will not happen. For any team to do everything perfect in a struggling season is wishful thinking/supporters optimism.

It wouldn't be miraculous, friend. I'd be very, very happy for my team but not ecstatic if we won. In sense, what we really need to do despite an all-out effort that France must generate anyways (I mean, they're a pro int'l side, it's their job); what we really need to do is find our attack that's been about 70%, with the 30% being the whole difference.
Not a ***anic feat...our backs are world class with the exception of one, maybe, they just need to click.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I completely disagree about defense. Sure SA has an advantage in terms of the line-out, and possibly maul (though France aren't avg. in that field either).

S.A. haven't managed good defense on the All-Blacks, neither of the times they played them. They conceded 4 tries in Auckland, then 5 at home in Jo-Burg. And in terms of a clinical, downright scary attack, the All-Blacks reign supreme.
Even in test 2 we played the AB in NZ, the one where we got smashed 30-0, we conceded 3 tries, not more. Tests 1 and 3 we conceded 2 tries each. And needless to repeat that when they came to Paris, our defense was the best I've seen all year, by a healthy margin, of any side on them.

The fact that S.A. hasn't conceded a try against Wales and Scotland this year means they're good. But it doesn't mean they're great. In fact when Wales started the match two weeks ago they were making good breaks, but never managed to score.

So I disagree SA have a better defense, especially when they've conceded 4 then 5 tries against the AB, including one try NZ scored with 14 men, and it wasn't close.

Defensively, France will have to be right at the top of their form, produce smt like against the All-Blacks. It will be very hard, and we may not manage it, but we can do it.
South Africa have to make sure they leave nothing to the French on attack, and saturate any potential awakening and good sensations on attack the French will want to harvest.

ITO SA defense you should not read too much into the tries we conceded against NZ this year and I'll explain why but have a look at the rest..

Against NZ, in the 1st test SA felt victim to our victim complex when Bismarck went off and we just stopped playing to a very large degree. In the 2nd we didn't play our usual game looking for 4 tries and the series and NZ beat us at their own game. Very slight 'ifs' there but very important when you are talking about our defence. I'd call it a draw at best.

Another factor though is home advantage/ref which has traditionally for the fixture of Fra vs SA been a huge factor indeed.

So everything considered I'd have it as

France; home advantage, scrum, possible X-factor

tied: defence,

SA: maul, line out, more settled pack (unfortunately our backline is disjointed ATM)

 

[Jer1cho]

The 2 best ball carrying loose forwards in the world are facing off on Saturday in Alberts and Picomoles. Gonna be some massive hits. If France don't rock up, they are going to get a hiding. I can't see that happening though, and I think it will be a pretty close contest. That being said, this is the first time in a long while as a Springbok fan that I am relatively confident about beating the French on their home soil. Unless Ras Dumisani sings our anthem again. If that happens it's over.

 

[Bradsa]

Thanks for the welcome Stormers 2010. Wouldn't players like Kolbe and Gio be great in the last 20 with a bit of a tired defense and lack of kick and chase tactics by the opposition in that last period?

Maybe not starters and I rate Willie but I think if we are, say, over 3 points behind in the last 10 we need some spark. Even if they come in on the wing.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Thanks for the welcome Stormers 2010. Wouldn't players like Kolbe and Gio be great in the last 20 with a bit of a tired defense and lack of kick and chase tactics by the opposition in that last period?

Maybe not starters and I rate Willie but I think if we are, say, over 3 points behind in the last 10 we need some spark. Even if they come in on the wing.

That depends and of course this is only one man's speculation. I have not won the lottery yet so don't think my views count for anything but here is my reasoning;

If we are ahead on the board, I wouldn't want them there for the last 20 as we are winning and someone like JPP is safe as a house in defense and we are probably going to be defending the opposition's last rush attempts at winning so, no Aplon or Kolbe. We should really be leading everyone bar NZ so I wouldn't have them for most of the games.

If one of our starters gets injured in the first 5 minutes do I want to risk playing Kolbe or Aplon the rest of the game? Against most nations in most circumstances, sure but we won't be winning because of them in any case and against any top 5 opposition I'd be worried they are going to lose to much ball under pressure and there is going to be pressure.

If we are behind, then sure, they might 'break out' for a score but I'd back us to grind out a win from behind using our forwards and maul before I'd back Aplon or Kolbe to get a freak try.

 

[Packman]

Pick of the weekend folks!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I just realized again that FdP isn't starting. I don't think we appreciate how huge that is.. that said if Le Roux gets the nod at 15 I'll be a lot happier.

 

[Big Ewis]

stormer that's awfully thin counter-arguing you offer there. Conceding 4 and 5 tries still is conceding 4 and 5 tries, esp. the 5 at home. Whether SA tried a different tactic in Jo-Burg doesn't change the fact that their defense didn't hold the All-Blacks too well, I mean a comfortable try with 14 men with Read jogging it in as one of five. I mean we've all seen that match, there's no way to get past the fact that the Boks' defense should have been a whole lot better if they were to have a chance.

I'm not bragging or pointing fingers, I'm just explaining why France have had a better defense this year than S.A. We haven't had such defensive woes all year.
The hilarious thing would be for S.A. to score a ton of tries on France just to mess with me when I say S.A. don't have good enough attack and France have great defense :lol:

Of course SA have had much better success scoring tries though.

 

[Big Ewis]

THIS JUST IN:
forwards coach Yannick Bru dispels all rumors about prop Thomas Domingo and no. 8 Louis Picamoles' current form. He's says they've both been followed carefully and that their physical state is just about optimum. I trust them on Domingo, and that's fantastic news, but I still feel a little skeptical for Picamoles.

EDIT:

Lock Yoann Maestri has been 'excused' by the IRB and he'll be able to join les Bleus once again if Saint-André likes (or he'll just play in a Toulouse shirt this weekend...). The Tongan delinquent takes 4 weeks though, which I think is...ridiculous.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

stormer that's awfully thin counter-arguing you offer there. Conceding 4 and 5 tries still is conceding 4 and 5 tries, esp. the 5 at home. Whether SA tried a different tactic in Jo-Burg doesn't change the fact that their defense didn't hold the All-Blacks too well, I mean a comfortable try with 14 men with Read jogging it in as one of five. I mean we've all seen that match, there's no way to get past the fact that the Boks' defense should have been a whole lot better if they were to have a chance.

I'm not bragging or pointing fingers, I'm just explaining why France have had a better defense this year than S.A. We haven't had such defensive woes all year.
The hilarious thing would be for S.A. to score a ton of tries on France just to mess with me when I say S.A. don't have good enough attack and France have great defense :lol:

Of course SA have had much better success scoring tries though.

Well, of course the argument if one can call it such wil be thin, this is about as subjective as we can get; discussing the relative strengths of each other's team's defence. I'm just saying, don't discount the other defensive displays from this team where there weren't 'extraordinary factors' and where it wasn't the all conquering NZ.. I could just as easily say you shipped 30 against NZ without taking any other factors into consideration and deduce (incorrectly) that Frances defense (and attack at that) is as thin as my dead greatgrandfather's hair.

THIS JUST IN:
forwards coach Yannick Bru dispels all rumors about prop Thomas Domingo and no. 8 Louis Picamoles' current form. He's says they've both been followed carefully and that their physical state is just about optimum. I trust them on Domingo, and that's fantastic news, but I still feel a little skeptical for Picamoles.

EDIT:

Lock Yoann Maestri has been 'excused' by the IRB and he'll be able to join les Bleus once again if Saint-André likes (or he'll just play in a Toulouse shirt this weekend...). The Tongan delinquent takes 4 weeks though, which I think is...ridiculous.

Good. No excuses then... ;P

 

[TRF_heineken]

One of my friends just said to me that he thinks the Springboks was in coast-mode vs Scotland. They did the hard yards pretty early in the game, basically closing out the game and then just went through the motions trying to get the game over and done with, without too much sacrifice. I have to agree with his point of view, and I hope it is the case, giving some fringe players a run, keeping the core fresh and battle-ready and prepare for the French...

Come to think of it, it makes a lot of sense. and based on news reports saying that "you ain't seen nothing yet". Apart from Malherbe we got out without any injury problems, and for so many tackles that were made by both teams, it just proves that our guys just did what they had to, to get out of the game, and securing the win.

 

[Big Ewis]

...Frances defense (and attack at that) is as thin as my dead greatgrandfather's hair.



Good. No excuses then... ;P

Don't talk about your grandfather's hair like that !!!...

and no, no excuses so far...I'm still waiting on the smallest little thing to happen, anything at all really !! But we're basically at full strength right now.
Wait for it though, wait for it !

P.S.: oh and, on some forum, an article quoting Bernard Laporte giving his sentiment on the Springboks: "what they do is butchery", to evoke their brutal yet effective style. Some guy in the comments said "well then it's the opportunity to show them we really are the country of gastronomy !"
..eh, just for some cheap (very...very cheap) laughs.

 

[Bradsa]

Saying the Bok defense is not as good the French defense because of our last game against the AB's is disingenuous. We went for the bonus point against a great AB side and leaked tries. Doubt France was aiming to score 4 tries against them.

 

[Big Ewis]

8 changes in the lineup !! No Picamoles after all...yikes ! stormer, I'm sorry to say man, but if S.A. win it's solely because of that...even if we lose 50-10, it'll surely be because of Picamoles' absence, oh, what a tragedy he isn't here !...

So, dropped are:
Debaty (prop), Flanquart (lock), Le Roux and Claassen (Springcock flanks), Pélissié (SH) and Gael Fickou (center), Picamoles (no. 8) and Médard (wing).

I understand the choices, and they're fine by me, with some skepticism though:
Debaty because Thomas Domingo is back and actually KNOWS HOW TO SCRUM !, Flanquart 'cause Maestri is back from a supposed suspension, Le Roux, Pélissié and Fickou are too young for this one, Claassen isn't good enough honestly.

The debatable ones:
well Fickou and Médard's absences will have some a bit angry, but I understand Saint-André has tremendous faith (and big balls, honestly) to prefer Sofiane Guitoune who, as far as we know, has only shone in one test against Tier 2 Tonga. He was responsible for 1 if not both tries they scored however...not enough weight yet.
But he'll be the impact player the coaching staff will want, and he'll bring his youth and just pure Rugby back ability. But how risky on defense !!...France will have to produce an all-around effort and avoid one-on-one duels.
And Huget is back and he's bulkier, so I'm fine with dropping Médard...
Picamoles I'm sure it's because he's not as 100% as they all assured.

Here's the group as of today:

Avants (13): Thomas Domingo (Clermont), Yannick Forestier (Castres), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro), Nicolas Mas (Montpellier), Rabah Slimani (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Pascal Papé (Stade Français), Sébastien Vahaamahina (Perpignan), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, capitaine), Wenceslas Lauret (Racing-Métro), Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Damien Chouly (Clermont)


Arrières (10): Jean-Marc Doussain (Toulouse), Morgan Parra (Clermont), Frédéric Michalak (Toulon), Rémi Talès (Castres), Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse), Sofiane Guitoune (Perpignan), Brice Dulin (Castres), Yoann Huget (Toulouse).

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

this match will be close but i say south africa 15 - 13

 

[Tony Manx]

this match will be close but i say south africa 15 - 13

Probably the right score but for France!