[EOYT] Wales v Australia, 30/11/13

[neiliog93]

Tipuric's early season form for the Ospreys hasn't been great either now that I think about it, he's been anonymous in their H Cup matches and their Pro12 form has been patchy.

 

[dullonien]

Tipuric's early season form for the Ospreys hasn't been great either now that I think about it, he's been anonymous in their H Cup matches and their Pro12 form has been patchy.

Yeah, Tips had a lull early season as well. Was getting back to some good form in the run-up to the AI's though.

Form Welsh backrow: (?)

6.Ryan Jones
7.Tipuric
8.Faletau

Ryan Jones has been rather poor so far this season too, struggling for form at the O's after injury at the end of last season. He had a decent first half against Tonga, but didn't keep it going in the second half.

I'd say the form backrow would have been 6 Shingler, 7 Tipuric, 8 Faletau. But I would have played 6 Warburton, 7 Tips, 8 Faletau.

 

[RoosTah]

Also want to wade in on a few of Wayne Barnes' decisions.

- Forward pass for Tomane's try? If it was, it was very marginal imo. Folau's hands appeared to go in a lateral motion with his forward momentum accounting for most of the distance the ball travelled forwards. Personally I thought Barnes' decision that there was nothing obvious was a good call, favouring the attacking side, even if it hurt at the time.
- Cooper's yellow card. Crazy decision. It was literally a split second between an early tackle, and a perfectly timed one. Penalty, yes. Yellow card, hell no.
- Alun-Wyn's knock on towards the end. For me, the ball clearly went through his hands and backwards. Tough decision due to where we were on the pitch and how much time was left on the clock, but a decision that I can accept.
- Wheeled scrum. Imo it wasn't a deliberate wheel, just a combination of Bevington's poor scrummaging on the loosehead side, and Samson Lee getting a huge shove-on. Again though, if it happened earlier on in the match I wouldn't have minded too much, so I'm not too upset by the decision. Always difficult for ref's to determine when it's a legitimate drive or a wheel anyway.

Barnes also gave a penalty to Wales when North obviously wasn't supporting his bodyweight in a ruck out wide. So all in all, I thought Barnes had a decent game, with the yellow given to Cooper being the worst call imo. That decision didn't affect the result though, so we can let him off.

Agree with all those points. Gatland having a go at a "forward pass" from Folau was pretty pathetic I thought, and Cooper being yellow carded when his tackle was almost simultaneous was ridiculous in the extreme.

 

[Big Ewis]

Yeah Wales weren't going to score the try on that Cooper early tackle. Should have been just a penalty. Imagine if the Welsh had come way back to the score to win this match taking advantage of just 14 Wallabies on the field, it would have been all because of a tad, tad early tackle from Cooper with absolutely no malicious intent behind the play but merely defensive reflex. Clearly he wasn't looking to break up the play.
Would've been yet another huge injustice for the Wallabies this trip to Europe.

 

[Rhyer]

Agree with all those points. Gatland having a go at a "forward pass" from Folau was pretty pathetic I thought, and Cooper being yellow carded when his tackle was almost simultaneous was ridiculous in the extreme.

Gatland is the biggest piece of **** in modern day rugby. So incredibly biased when talking to the media. Every time Wales lose he says they're robbed of victory. Couldn't simply be that they have poor tactics and rely too much on one dimensional play? Pass it to the biggest guy you can find and run forward is not a tactic.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Peel was discarded far too quickly

Regarding the early tackle from Cooper, he cheated and he knew he cheated, it was a calculated risk and he got collared for it but the fact remains when he launched himself the ball was far away from it's recipient. It ended up being marginally late but when he launched himself it was with the determination to shut down the movement illegally.
He deserved the yellow card and long may it serve as a memory to others who might try to follow the same course of action.

To Rhyer; Gatland secured the first Lions series victory since the last millennium.
His was the vilified decision to drop a slow and ageing O'Driscoll and harden up his midfield.
It came back to him in spades.
He's not afraid to make hard decisions no matter how unpopular they are.
This was some distance from the top Welsh side and when he has a full roll call of players it may turn out different.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair Peel's form did drop off quite a lot, for a season or two - he had surgery at the tail end of last season and looks 5yrs younger on the pitch now.

 

[Big Ewis]

Gatland is the biggest piece of **** in modern day rugby. So incredibly biased when talking to the media. Every time Wales lose he says they're robbed of victory. Couldn't simply be that they have poor tactics and rely too much on one dimensional play? Pass it to the biggest guy you can find and run forward is not a tactic.

Well it still has worked often !
As one-dimensional as they have been most of the time, they've won many games through it.

 

[Jbobo]

Gatland is the biggest piece of **** in modern day rugby. So incredibly biased when talking to the media. Every time Wales lose he says they're robbed of victory. Couldn't simply be that they have poor tactics and rely too much on one dimensional play? Pass it to the biggest guy you can find and run forward is not a tactic.

Actually, he merely expressed his opinion that the pass was forward. An opinion which i agree with. He was simply saying that in extremely tight affairs like these, all you need is one or two 50/50 decisions to go your way and you will win. I think Australia played well, but i also think Wales did too. It was a brilliant game of rugby, and Wales played a big part in making it so. Australia deserved the win, but in my (very Welsh) eyes, i think the score in the end was fair. Cooper was immense and was by far the most creative player on the pitch. Wales could easily have snatched it, and it wouldn't have been a fluke neither. It feels like people were watching a completely different game saying that Wales were blown away, it was a a great battle and it could have gone either way. A massive positive for the Welsh in the grand scheme of things is that although we lost once again, this time we were facing a Wallabies side which was playing like their true selves, and we still held our own.

Basically i agree that we just arent yet a world cup winning side, we just aren't there yet and are still a 'nearly' team. However, unlike a couple of years ago, we have proved that we can mix it with a top 3 SH team even when they are hitting good form. A couple of years ago, yesterday would have been a 20+ loss. I think it's getting more and more obvious that Wales are only going on way for the forseeable future and thatis UPWARDS

 

[Ospreylian]

Gatland is the biggest piece of **** in modern day rugby. So incredibly biased when talking to the media. Every time Wales lose he says they're robbed of victory. Couldn't simply be that they have poor tactics and rely too much on one dimensional play? Pass it to the biggest guy you can find and run forward is not a tactic.

I don't get why some people think Wales' tactics are one-dimensional. Yes, they could be more aware at times of what's in front of them and take a few more risks in attack, but when they score tries, more often than not they are well-worked moves that have very little to do with brute strength.

They do use their big guys to get over the gain line, but is this a crime? You play to your player base's strengths as a coach, and a lot of the best players available to Gatland just happen to be bulky players atm. I'm sure if he was in charge of a team of smaller players, his tactics would change accordingly. Hibbard, for example, was extremely effective yesterday in just doing as you said - running forward with force.

Also, these tactics have been shown to work on numerous occasions - Wales have won back-to-back six nations under them. For example, Owen Williams seemed way out of his depth yesterday, and as soon as North switched to centre there was a huge difference in how well Wales were getting front-foot ball and beating the first man. It is a pretty vital part of Wales' attacking plan, and without it they wouldn't be able to score some of the more "attractive" tries they have over the last few years.

So I'd like to ask Rhyer, what other overall tactic would you employ if you had the likes of North, Cuthbert, Roberts, Davies, Philips, Hibbard, and AWJ at your disposal? Would you tell them to all play like Shane Williams?

 

[psychic duck]

To be fair Peel's form did drop off quite a lot, for a season or two - he had surgery at the tail end of last season and looks 5yrs younger on the pitch now.

He was still dropped too quickly though. Players like Lloyd Williams got selected ahead of him. Phillips' form has taken various nosedives these past 4 years yet as a Gatland favourite never gets dropped (partly through lack of options through Gatland's dislike of Peel).

 

[David Smith]

Regarding the early tackle from Cooper, he cheated and he knew he cheated, it was a calculated risk and he got collared for it but the fact remains when he launched himself the ball was far away from it's recipient

You are very strange

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Trolls seemingly have come out of their caves ...

Want to point out that Warburton wouldn't have called that 12 man lineout at the end. It would have been a call from either the top dogs or that of the lineout captain who is Ian Evans. Just saying.

As for Peel, I have mentioned it a fair few times but he won't play for Wales as long as Howley is there because Howley doesn't rate him and have fallen out with each other.

 

[Thingimubob]

I think I wad proven with the way Mike Phillips acted today.

Shall we dig up all the ridiculous stuff Quade has got up to on and off the pitch over the years? Jesus his long lasting tiff with McCaw has enough cowardly, dirty like digs to last quite a while!

 

[Ospreylian]

As for Peel, I have mentioned it a fair few times but he won't play for Wales as long as Howley is there because Howley doesn't rate him and have fallen out with each other.

What did they actually fall out about? I vaguely recall that, but I can't remember what exactly it was all about...

 

[Tony Manx]

Actually, he merely expressed his opinion that the pass was forward. An opinion which i agree with. He was simply saying that in extremely tight affairs like these, all you need is one or two 50/50 decisions to go your way and you will win. I think Australia played well, but i also think Wales did too. It was a brilliant game of rugby, and Wales played a big part in making it so. Australia deserved the win, but in my (very Welsh) eyes, i think the score in the end was fair. Cooper was immense and was by far the most creative player on the pitch. Wales could easily have snatched it, and it wouldn't have been a fluke neither. It feels like people were watching a completely different game saying that Wales were blown away, it was a a great battle and it could have gone either way. A massive positive for the Welsh in the grand scheme of things is that although we lost once again, this time we were facing a Wallabies side which was playing like their true selves, and we still held our own.

Basically i agree that we just arent yet a world cup winning side, we just aren't there yet and are still a 'nearly' team. However, unlike a couple of years ago, we have proved that we can mix it with a top 3 SH team even when they are hitting good form. A couple of years ago, yesterday would have been a 20+ loss. I think it's getting more and more obvious that Wales are only going on way for the forseeable future and thatis UPWARDS

I agree with a lot of this but it is also true that Australia could have scored many more points had they maintained their accuracy in the first half and that they could well have been out of sight!

In addition, there is little doubt that Barnes saw the video replay of that pass and decided it was not clear and obvious why a try could not be awarded.........that has to be the right call if he saw it that way whether he was right or wrong and Gatland, who really is a miserable B u g g e r, had very right to have a different, if somewhat biased opinion, and the right to express it (even though to me it sounds like ridiculous sour grapes bearing in mind the superiorty of the Aussies at the time it was scored!!!)

I went for a Welsh victory which yet again proves my immense knowledge of what I am talking about..........sorry Benedict!

 

[Jbobo]

I agree with a lot of this but it is also true that Australia could have scored many more points had they maintained their accuracy in the first half and that they could well have been out of sight!

In addition, there is little doubt that Barnes saw the video replay of that pass and decided it was not clear and obvious why a try could not be awarded.........that has to be the right call if he saw it that way whether he was right or wrong and Gatland, who really is a miserable B u g g e r, had very right to have a different, if somewhat biased opinion, and the right to express it (even though to me it sounds like ridiculous sour grapes bearing in mind the superiorty of the Aussies at the time it was scored!!!)

I went for a Welsh victory which yet again proves my immense knowledge of what I am talking about..........sorry Benedict!

I don't think you can simply dismiss it as sour grapes from Gatland. To me it was a forward pass but i definitely don't blame the ref for giving it as it was close, but forward. In the end, if it was forward, then it has probably cost us the game.


Accuracy in attack is a huge part of the game, and Australia just weren't clinical enough to beat the Welsh scramble defense to make it a comfortable win. Likewise, Wales weren't clinical enough to finish off the Aussies when they had the chance. If we go by the logic that it is 'sour grapes' to call out wrong refereeing decisions when we truly believe they are wrong and which ultimately shape the result just because the beneficiary team 'should have' scored more, then what is the game coming to? Wales 'should have' scored far more points in about half a dozen of the past 9 meetings, if we had won all these games on the back of a very dodgy referee decision would it be okay for me to dismiss people who argue against the decision just because we created more opportunities?

I thought Wales were going to finally get one over a top 3 SH team too, but was surprised by how dangerous Australia looked. Best team won on the day. As Gatland said though, Wales are just about to knock the door down, and i have a feeling it will happen just in time for the World Cup.

By the way Tony, i wonder if we have ever met. I live on the Island myself and went to Ramsey Grammar School

 

[Jaguares]

The man of the match: Quade Cooper



The number one! I like him

 

[The Jones Boy]

That montage also showed how far forward the last pass for the Aussie try really was, Barnes is a first class muppet. He's better suited to refereeing American football where they favour passing forward.
Barnes has been approving forward passes since 2007.
Get him off the IRB International referees panel.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

doesn't matter how far the ball went forward, it's all about the hands going backwards!!

*waits for Smart Cooky to post Law 19.3.4 subsection A part B*