Golden Lions v Lions

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ May 31 2009, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ May 31 2009, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it is tough because they are both very versatile players. Also note that as Croft does most of his time at Lock for Leicester he would also be playing out of position. I think it'd be a challenge the likes of Croft and Ferris would be up for.

Considering that Geechs has played Byrne and Sheridan for example who are prime candidates for test starting places, I think he's up for getting all 30 players out there in the 7 tour games before and between the test series.[/b]

well Sheridan certainly isn't up for a test spot but I wasn't questioning that either wouldn't be up for the challenge more the fact that the challenge shouldn't be posed on such a short tour.
[/b][/quote]

I think Sheridan is up for a test spot as he did the job that he was required to do. Wasn't his fault that Earls were there like a deer in the headlights and Rees couldn't hit HMS Belfast with a beach ball. He was robust in the scrum and good in the loose, what more do you want him to do?

Also, to be brutally honest, if challenges like that shouldn't be posed on such a short tour then the tour itself shouldn't even be going ahead owing to the (traditional) lack of preparation that the Lions have had in the run up. I mean, what time have they all honestly had together? You can't apply logic to a tour that it in itself a highly emotional (and thus illogical) event.

They haven't had time to work out combinations or teams. The games against the provincial and S14 sides are a chance to hammer out those combinations and if you're going to take 30 players but leave certain players out specifically for the tests then we'll be going down the same road that Sir Clive went down in 2005. Use em' all, see what works and then take that into the test series.

 

[Bumbadum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ May 31 2009, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Let's just hope Earles never wears a Lions shirt again...[/b]

You're kidding right? He dropped a few balls - that's all he did. Plenty of others made as many mistakes, just not such obvious ones. Easier to scapegoat him than hope he learns from it and moves on right?

I for one hope he gets plenty more chances this tour.

Back on topic, I think the following:

1: Murray
2: Ford
3:Jenkins
4: POC
5: DOC
6: Ferris
7: Wallace
8: Powell
9: Phillips
10: Jones
11: Moyne
12: Flutey
13: BOD
14: Fitz
15: Kearney

Hines, Bowe, Vickery, Heaslip, Ellis, Hook, Roberts.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jun 1 2009, 01:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ May 31 2009, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ May 31 2009, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it is tough because they are both very versatile players. Also note that as Croft does most of his time at Lock for Leicester he would also be playing out of position. I think it'd be a challenge the likes of Croft and Ferris would be up for.

Considering that Geechs has played Byrne and Sheridan for example who are prime candidates for test starting places, I think he's up for getting all 30 players out there in the 7 tour games before and between the test series.[/b]

well Sheridan certainly isn't up for a test spot but I wasn't questioning that either wouldn't be up for the challenge more the fact that the challenge shouldn't be posed on such a short tour.
[/b][/quote]

I think Sheridan is up for a test spot as he did the job that he was required to do. Wasn't his fault that Earls were there like a deer in the headlights and Rees couldn't hit HMS Belfast with a beach ball. He was robust in the scrum and good in the loose, what more do you want him to do?

Also, to be brutally honest, if challenges like that shouldn't be posed on such a short tour then the tour itself shouldn't even be going ahead owing to the (traditional) lack of preparation that the Lions have had in the run up. I mean, what time have they all honestly had together? You can't apply logic to a tour that it in itself a highly emotional (and thus illogical) event.

They haven't had time to work out combinations or teams. The games against the provincial and S14 sides are a chance to hammer out those combinations and if you're going to take 30 players but leave certain players out specifically for the tests then we'll be going down the same road that Sir Clive went down in 2005. Use em' all, see what works and then take that into the test series.
[/b][/quote]

So you're saying it's good to be going on such a short tour and saying to x y or z you play out of position and prove yourself, they've already proved themselves in their real position by getting on the tour in the first place, he's not going to pull another Jenkins out of his hat, doesn't need to as he's got fly halves who can kick their goals, he's got opensides and he's got blindsides so no need to be messing about cause if he does we'll be waiting another 4 years for a series win.

Sheridan certainly didn't do the job he was required to do, missing the man completely for the try, that's what you want in defence and his workrate in the lineout leaves a lot to be desired, not putting O'Connell or Shaw in a position to win any opposition ball and he wasn't exactly making a huge number of carries either but if that's a par performance than sobeit.

 

[Daylightfire]

Pretty strong line up this one!

British & Irish Lions (vs Golden Lions)

15. Rob Kearney (Leinster/Ireland)
14. Tommy Bowe (Ospreys/Ireland)
13. Brian O’Driscoll (Leinster/Ireland)
12. Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
11. Ugo Monye (Harlequins/England)
10. Stephen Jones (Scarlets/Wales)
9. Mike Phillips (Ospreys/Wales)

8. Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7. David Wallace (Munster/Ireland)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers/England)
5. Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
4. Nathan Hines (Perpignan/Scotland)
3. Phil Vickery (London Wasps/England)
2. Lee Mears (Bath/England)
1. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues/Wales)

Replacements

16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh/Scotland)
17. Euan Murray (Northampton Saints/Scotland)
18. Stephen Ferris (Ulster/Ireland)
19. Andy Powell (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
20. Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers/England)
21. James Hook (Ospreys/Wales)
22. Shane Williams (Ospreys/Wales)

 

[An Tarbh]

better balance to the backrow so can't have too many complaints, although I'd obviously swap Croft for Ferris. Surprised that Fitzgerald isn't even in the 22.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Jun 1 2009, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

So you're saying it's good to be going on such a short tour and saying to x y or z you play out of position and prove yourself, they've already proved themselves in their real position by getting on the tour in the first place, he's not going to pull another Jenkins out of his hat, doesn't need to as he's got fly halves who can kick their goals, he's got opensides and he's got blindsides so no need to be messing about cause if he does we'll be waiting another 4 years for a series win.[/b]

Mmm, no, I didn't actually say it was good but was just pointing out that because this is effectively a squad put together barely a couple of weeks ago they've got to find out what works and what doesn't. There isn't any "proving" involved nor any messing about but its about finding out what works. This isn't like your average tour with a national side, you can't just call up someone from back home if there is an injury so playing out of position I would have thought would have been understood to have been part of the job description.

Case in point, Croft has been tapped to play at 6 even though he plays at lock for Leicester, obviously messing about and time for him to go home Also, GOD (i.e. Richard Hill, the cerebreal assasain, the king of kings, the man who strikes terror into Munster and the Ospreys, etc) played mostly at 7 for the Lions despite really being stronger at 6 because he was needed there. Obviously messing about because they had Neil Back touring with them at the time. Even worse, they played Dallaglio at 6 so they could fit Tim Rodber in at 8! Scandal!

Thats the thing though, they tried playing these guys out of position and they found that the combination worked very well and the only way they could find that out is by doing it on the tour as these guys all played for different clubs and so on. They wouldn't have found such a winning combination as Dayglo, Hill & Rodber if they had just insisted on playing everyone strictly to their chosen position.

EDIT: at the end of the day, we believe it should be done in different ways and in effect you're James May and I'm Jeremy Clarkson.

 

[Bullitt]

Well, so long as it's only the mid-week games that Vickery is put in the 22...

 

[Prestwick]

They need to let the nice old man out on day release, it does get very lonely to be stuck in the Hotel recreation room on his own all the time

 

[Jer1cho]

Golden Lions:

1 - L Sephaka
2 - W Wepener
3 - G Muller
4 - B Mockford
5 - W Stoltz
6 - C Grobbelaar
7 - F van der Merwe
8 - W Alberts.

9 - J Vermaak

10 - A Pretorius
11 - D Noble
12 - D la Grange
13 - J Boshoff
14 - M Killian
15 - L Ludik



Replacements E Reynecke, J Van Rensburg, E Joubert, T Clever, C Jonck, W Venter, E Rose.

So this is the Golden Lions team. I think the B & I Lions will have to step up their game in order to secure a victory here. A pretty solid Golden Lions team, apart from their biggest star, Jacques Fourie though. I think the tourists should still clinch this one though. They will have to contain scrumhalf Janno Vermaak, as he is a real danger around the field. Should be a really good game i feel!

The Lions don't have any real stars when it comes to that 'X-factor' of an attacking player. They are more a team that thrive on tactical play, and are good at capitalizing on opponent error. Cobus Grobbelaar is a real pain for opponents at the breakdowns, while Andre Pretorius also has his moments. We should see some drop goals from him as well. Also, look out for fullback Louis Ludik. He is also in pretty good form, and is a really reliable player under the high ball.

Anyway, the game will be played at Coca Cola Park (formerly Ellis Park) in Johannesburg.

Here are some interesting facts about the city i live in, for all y'all tourists!!!

- The city is one of the 40 largest metropolitan areas in the world.
- The contiguous built-up urban area is listed as being 1,300km² (502 mi²) in land size, which is by far the largest city in Africa in terms of urban sprawl.
- Despite the relatively dry climate, Johannesburg has over ten million trees, and it is now the biggest man-made forest in the world.
- Over 70% of the world's gold has come from Johannesburg and surrounding areas.

There are many more, but yeah, rugby is the main focus!

Kick-off is @ 19:10 CAT

 

[Bumbadum]

Lions announced, BOD to skipper.

R Kearney (Leinster and Ireland);
T Bowe (Ospreys and Ireland),
B O'Driscoll (Leinster and Ireland, captain),
J Roberts (Cardiff Blues and Wales),
U Monye (Harlequins and England);
S Jones (Scarlets and Wales),
M Phillips (Ospreys and Wales);
G Jenkins (Cardiff Blues and Wales),
L Mears (Bath and England),
P Vickery (Wasps and England),
N Hines (Perpignan and Scotland),
A-W Jones (Ospreys and Wales),
T Croft (Leicester and England),
D Wallace (Munster and Ireland),
J Heaslip (Leinster and Ireland).

Replacements: R Ford, E Murray, S Ferris, A Powell, H Ellis, J Hook, S Williams.

 

[Bumbadum]

Initial curiosities from my point of view are:

Why Williams benched instead of Fitz? As DOC is nowhere to be seen, presumably Croft is the second row cover, therefore why does he start at 6 instead of Ferris?

 

[feicarsinn]

Ahh the true captain is returned and with him brings hope. Golden Lions 3 Brian 490

 

[Thingimubob]

Interesting that there's 2 back rowers on the bench, maybe Geech is gonna move Croft to lock at some point then bring on Ferris at 6? Or maybe he just wants to give A W Jones and Hines a full game together to test their partnership.

Can see Hook coming on as a 12, because Roberts played the whole game on saturday. Will be interesting to see if it works, as the Jones - Hook 10 - 12 combination hasn't been that succesful with Wales in the past.

In other news, Leigh Halfpenny is fit and flying out to South Africa today.

 

[MunsterMan]

Good news about Halfpenny, should start along with Fitz at the weekend. More excited about this team, a bigger Lions pack to tackle a big Golden Lions pack.

Strange to see Roberts starting, would have started Flutey.

Looking forward to this one

 

[Olyy]

Not bad a B.I.Lions side, would've liked to have seen flutey starting, as roberts played the full 80 on sat. but i suppose theres still four more matches until the first test, so he'll get his moment,
Glad to see Croft in there, he had a cracking 6N, and Monye as well

 

[el_tk]

Roberts to be the 2nd player to absolutely guarantee his place on the Test team with another strong showing here. Pretty dynamic back row and you have to pity any team that has to deal with the likes of Powell and Ferris coming off the bench with 20 to go. Big chance for Mears to stake a Test claim after Rees' absentee performance on Saturday

 

[MunsterMan]

Don't think Mears is up to it either. Hooker is an area of weakness, even if Flannery hadn't been injured, while a very good player and near perfect throwing is a given he isn't exactly Keith Wood. Ross Ford may well force his way into the team yet.

 

[Bumbadum]

According to David Hands of The Times, Flutey is having a potential muscle twist scanned, while Fitz has a chest infection, and are therefore both rested.

 

[stevemagoo]

Yup - saw that too that fitz had chest infection and knee twinge and Flutey felt a strain behind his knee during his run-out on Saturday.

 

[Jer1cho]

Um, on a side note... has anyone seen the ad where the Springboks stand on table mountain, and a huge wave of 'water lions' comes at them? HECTIC!