IRB Junior World Championship

[IluvRugby]

I have always wondered why the South African juniors struggled at the U20 world cup because they have the best rugby schools in the world and then I came across this article(more of a statement really) which put things into perspective, and shows that not their strongest players are being selected and if this statement is true, we will start seeing a South African and New zealand final on a more regular bases.

"As of next year Saru wants SA Schools team to be selected on merit and not according to a 50-50 racial quota, as has been the case in the past.

That was the story doing the rounds at the Northern Unions Bondedag in Rustenburg on Saturday.

No one was prepared to go on the record – Saru, apparently, needs to make an official statement first – but some pretty high up officials in the schools body were strongly under the impression that this is what is going to happen."

 

[ranger]

I have always wondered why the South African juniors struggled at the U20 world cup because they have the best rugby schools in the world and then I came across this article(more of a statement really) which put things into perspective, and shows that not their strongest players are being selected and if this statement is true, we will start seeing a South African and New zealand final on a more regular bases.

"As of next year Saru wants SA Schools team to be selected on merit and not according to a 50-50 racial quota, as has been the case in the past.

That was the story doing the rounds at the Northern Unions Bondedag in Rustenburg on Saturday.

No one was prepared to go on the record – Saru, apparently, needs to make an official statement first – but some pretty high up officials in the schools body were strongly under the impression that this is what is going to happen."

You do realize the claim that you have "the best rugby schools in the world" is just an opinion right?

I would be very surprised if there were many schools in the world could take on the Hamilton Boys' sides of the last 3 or so years. Those sides look like they could take out the NZ 2nd division NPC ***le.


From experience my school (Which has a proud history but is only slightly above the average school in the strength of its rugby) has played against 2 South African schools in the last couple of years; Jeppe Highschool for boys and Hilton College. They both came over in our preseason before we had even chosen our 1st XVs, we ended up playing our 1st/2nd composite side against them in both instances, winning 40 odd to 9 against Hilton and and 40 nill against Jeppe.

To put things in perspective, the year we beat Hilton, we lost to Hamilton Boys by 70 points.

 

[Boggle]

Well I would be very surprised if there were many schools in the world that could take on Grey College or Paul Roos, I'd wager Grey could easily walk into the Currie cup and cause a few upsets, they're just that good.

The schools you mentioned aren't even in the top 20 rugby schools over here (in terms of the FNB rankings), not sure if they're even any good at all.

Hope we can finally start selecting players only based on merit, would love to see common sense prevail for a change.

Also who saw, the SA vs Aus game ?
I thought it was absolutely fantastic, we were outplayed, but to be fair it was so very close it was as if Aus gave 100% and we ended up giving 98%

If patrick Lambie was more accurate with the place kicking it could have been ever closer.

 

[ranger]

Well I would be very surprised if there were many schools in the world that could take on Grey College or Paul Roos, I'd wager Grey could easily walk into the Currie cup and cause a few upsets, they're just that good.

The schools you mentioned aren't even in the top 20 rugby schools over here (in terms of the FNB rankings), not sure if they're even any good at all.

Hope we can finally start selecting players only based on merit, would love to see common sense prevail for a change.

Also who saw, the SA vs Aus game ?
I thought it was absolutely fantastic, we were outplayed, but to be fair it was so very close it was as if Aus gave 100% and we ended up giving 98%

If patrick Lambie was more accurate with the place kicking it could have been ever closer.

Its not like we challenged the best schools in SA, they just happened to be touring and asked for a game. Those schools produced Bobby Skinstad, Gary Teichman, James Dalton and had something to do with Jake White if i remember correctly.

My school also went on an undefeated UK tour in early 2000ish, they thrashed Blackrock in Ireland, Kings of Macclesfield in whereever they come from, Fettes College in Scotland and ended Wellington Colleges winning streak in England. And we are also amatures compared to the likes of Rotorua, Wesley, Hamilton and Christchurch. The moral of the story is that there are other rugby teams in other countries in the world. Just because you're into your school rugby in your country doesn't make it the best in the world.

 

[Jake Heke]

Christchurch Boys High would beat most teams, hell even Palmerston North Boys High would beat most teams that come into NZ more times then none.

 

[Seaton]

Jeppe are past what they once were, and Hilton, Hilton are not even one of the top sides in Natal.
More than half of the Grey College team walk into the Cheetahs set-up, usually to make their debuts the year after they leave school.

Their is a long list of Boks that Grey has produced (somewhere near 50% I believe, but I could be wrong.)

One of the best Natal schools, Glenwood, won an invitational schools tournament in Japan (with some top sides from around the school, including New Zealand and Aus), and on the rare occasions they play some of the "Afrikaner schools" (as John Smit says), they get bent over and taken advantage of.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I played against the current NZ first-five Tyler Bleyendaal at the national under 15 tournament years ago. I can tell you now that looking at him then, you wouldn't instantly assume that he would be the future NZ under 20 captain. He was a skinny, lanky, almost nerdy looking white boy. He did have undeniable natural talent though and ended up leading his team to win the tournament and picked up the tournament MVP ***le. Hes an example of a natural footballer that has been turned into an athlete.

What do you think the problem is with NH youth coaches and scouts?
Do you think it is a fear of being wrong in that you have said its easier to justify the selection of a physically imposing athlete? or are the coaches just not clued up enough to identify the skillful kids?
I think its an important area for England to focus on, they have enough money in their system but unless they identify their best young talent they will always be on the backfoot at senior level.

What do you mean almost nerdy looking? No almost about it. But a very good player. Fingers crossed we'll get to see him up against Clegg who seems to be the only game controller of his generation.

We do have another game controller in Joe Ford who's seen a lot of GP time for Leeds this season but we decided to leave him at home and rely on Burns, who normally plays Full-Back instead and take an extra hooker... big risk if you ask me!

English rugby has always had a fascination with physicality and always will. I also think most of them are being told to bring in the Athletes and we'll turn them into rugby players... which isn't always wrong, but isn't always right either. A big problem for us I think - and the rest of the Home Nations - has been a lack of intense competition. The stand out players are those who can blow away their rivals physically, they don't even need to learn any other skills. I think we're solving that in England with the Academies, they're up against players who are similar and it becomes a lot more about technique and awareness but I've talked to Irish people, for instance, who reckon its a big problem of the current schools system and looking at players like Nevin Spence and Brendan Macken I'm inclined to agree.

At the end of the day, I don't think England are too far behind the SH when it comes to youth production right now - and I think we'll be seeing dividends of that soon enough, particularly with a coaching set up at full level that isn't made up of drooling morons. But we shouldn't be aiming to be far behind, we should be aiming to be far ahead... probably an impossible dream, but that has to be the aim.

 

[Boggle]

The moral of the story is that there are other rugby teams in other countries in the world. Just because you're into your school rugby in your country doesn't make it the best in the world.

Hey it's not like that's what I was saying, just trying to give you some perspective on Rugby schools here in SA.

I did exactly what you did, just told you that I don't think there would be many schools in the world that could beat Grey College.

Grey have produced 15 post isolation era Springboks, which is a pretty decent average of springboks per year if you ask me.

Obviously the best way to settle something like this would be to have these teams actually play each other, in which case there's the anual Sanix World Rugby Youth Invitational Tournament.

So far NZ seem to have the edge having won the tourny 4 times with Christchurch boys twice ( 05 and 06 ) and Rotorua twice ( 03 and 04).
We've won it 3 times with 3 different schools.
Grey College - 2001
Boland Agriculture - 2002
Glenwood high - 2008

We've also had 2 runners up in 2000 and 2006 with Paul Roos and Monument High respectively, NZ having one runner up in 2001 (St. Peters).

Aus havn't done too bad either with 2 wins and 1 runners up spot over the years.

 

[profitius]

What do you think the problem is with NH youth coaches and scouts?
Do you think it is a fear of being wrong in that you have said its easier to justify the selection of a physically imposing athlete? or are the coaches just not clued up enough to identify the skillful kids?
.

Both sum it up perfectly. Skill is valued less than physicality and most coaches are too afraid to take chances on young players. The ones who do are usually criticised in the media.

 

[IluvRugby]

You do realize the claim that you have "the best rugby schools in the world" is just an opinion right?

That's right, just opinion, though I never said I was from South Africa but still, even where I am from Grey Collage is regarded as arguably the best rugby school in the world.

 

[Jake Heke]

That's right, just opinion, though I never said I was from South Africa but still, even where I am from Grey Collage is regarded as arguably the best rugby school in the world.

Cool Story Bro

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

IRELAND UNDER-20 Team & Replacements (v Samoa U-20s, IRB Junior World Championship, Club Atletico Estudiantes, Parana, Thursday, June 17, kick-off 1pm local time/5pm Irish time):
15 - Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster)
14 - Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)
13 - Brendan Macken (Blackrock College/Leinster)
12 - David McSharry (UCD/Leinster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
10 - Noel Reid (UCD/Leinster)
9 - Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
1 - Bryan Cagney (UCC/Munster)
2 - Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) (capt)
3 - Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
4 - Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Ben Marshall (UCD/Leinster)
6 - Jordi Murphy (Blackrock College/Leinster)
7 - Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
8 - Paddy Butler (Shannon/Munster)
Replacements:
16 - David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
17 - Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht)
18 - David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
19 - Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
20 - John Cooney (UCD/Leinster)
21 - James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
22 - Eoin Griffin (Corinthians/Connacht)

 

[Jake Heke]

oz vs england nw, shud be good

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England let in two tries in 10minutes in exactly the same way =/

20 - 8 at halftime

Think an Australia vs New Zealand final is on the cards

 

[Jake Heke]

I have a feeling the Baby Blacks will lose to the Saffas. Australia vs SA final imo.

 

[Jake Heke]

England went out on their asses, literally.

Was a good showing by them in the second, i was most impressed with their defense. final score was 11 - 28.

 

[Jake Heke]

My prediction was way off.

NZ 36 - SA 7

 

[ranger]

My prediction was way off.

NZ 36 - SA 7

Well it makes sense, a country with so many more players to choose from on top of the very best schools competition in the world would have to start as favorites right?

 

[cyRil]

Wales got tucked up tonight.
Drew 19-19 with Argentina in the 5th/6th play-off and lost 9-8 on penalties!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Disappointed we don't get another NZ/England final
Reckon England should beat SA though, if we play like we have/did in the 2nd half