Ireland v England, 10/02/13

[Teh Mite]

Eyyy !! Teh Mite !! Just keepin me hangin here, huh ?!
Your take on the possibility of a Grand Slam ?

One step at a time. Learn to walk before you can run. Don't put all your eggs in one basket etc.

Easier to enjoy it while England look better then they previously have been!

 

[Big Ewis]

^ Oh ok, so no Grand Slam...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think I'm ganna bake myself a little cake when England lose a game, because terms like "progessed as a team", "playing clever rugby", "winning ugly" and the mention of the 2003 team (which I'll add was a decade ago), will swiftly be replaced with "poor coaching decisions", "playing the same old style", "same old 10 man rugby". It's marvalous how winning three games in a row makes the English superior to everyone - but one loss makes them the worst team ever.

Not saying this about every Englishmen to be fair, some a very level headed - but there are plenty which seem to get a bit ahead of themselves. It was only a few months ago that the English were saying Robshaw was a terrible captain who made stupid choices, Farrell was a guy who was only in the team cause of his dad, Ashton couldn't tackle a paraplegic on stilts, Youngs was the worst halfback in the Premiership, Farrell had no attacking game, Tuilagi can't pass the ball, Alex Goode only has a kicking game, Brown can't defend on the wing etc, etc, etc. Now they're the team everyone in Europe should aspire to be.

I'm with Mite here - who has prescribed Englands game as the way to go for other teams? That's somewhat more what your doing in trying to criticise both teams for not concocting a Southern Hemipshere style runnng game despite the awful Northern hemisphere conditions.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

http://www.espnscrum.com/ireland/ru...RSS;utm_medium=twitter;utm_source=twitterfeed

I reckon it'll be 5, he's had a good disciplinary record to now and I don't think it was extremely malicious.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It was only a few months ago that the English were saying Robshaw was a terrible captain who made stupid choices, Farrell was a guy who was only in the team cause of his dad, Ashton couldn't tackle a paraplegic on stilts, Youngs was the worst halfback in the Premiership, Farrell had no attacking game, Tuilagi can't pass the ball, Alex Goode only has a kicking game, Brown can't defend on the wing etc, etc, etc. Now they're the team everyone in Europe should aspire to be.

I actually think the players have improved from where they were a couple of months ago. A lot of players skills and descion making has definately got better.

 

[Tony Manx]

http://www.espnscrum.com/ireland/ru...RSS;utm_medium=twitter;utm_source=twitterfeed

I reckon it'll be 5, he's had a good disciplinary record to now and I don't think it was extremely malicious.

Against - stamp, elbow and fist alll used in the match illegally.

For - Nothing other than the Citing Commision are paid for by the various Unions who control International rugby in the Brirish Isles (must be to explain why the French are not treated in a similar lax fashion)

Result....utilisation of the ROG (Was not trying to kick him inot the next field only trying to trip) or Mealamu (Ibelieve in God) defence being here "there is an international in 12 days time and I need to play" will lead Healy to receive a 7 day suspension and a lolly.

 

[mstar]

Lots been said already but some thoughts from me.
I know Brad Barrit gets bashed on this forum a lot -mostly fans who never played rugby and comparing him to BOD is not fair.


If you look at brads game, he runs the defense he allowed BOD little room to roam and influence the game with his movement. Barrit is Lancasters kind of player, and even if he lacks the creativity in the middle, he makes up for it by our ability to command the defensive line.
We saw it a lot in yesterdays game, and hence why we might not see tries or beautiful offloads from him but he is critical how lancaster wants his side to play.


As i posted earlier, lancasters philosophy is to start from a solid defense and build a team around that. So even if 12T is a great player i cannot see Brad moving aside just yet. Remember last year we won a lot of games not by our attacking ability/creativity but by our defense positioning/organisation.


England/Coaches know the importance of having a defensive captain who can organise/stabilise/lead the defense during critical phases of the game (yesterday you could see Barrit shouting furiously around him to organise the defence when Haskell went off). I think this was his better games to be honest, he may not had much ball but his presence and organisation kept Ireland from making not much yards passed the gain line.


Also, like to say Robshaw led from the front he did everything, out worked his opposite number. Wood had a good game despite being a number 8. Haskell put in a good workload on the floor, he is so strong he is a menece on the floor. I thought JL game was a little restrictive as his qualities of being so mobile was not called for in this type of game.


I really hope we see more of courtney lawes as i really think we could do with his physicality. However, JL i think i am right in saying has better ball handling skills the lawes? (yes i am a fan of Lawes :-D)

 

[Teh Mite]

Tony - Spot on assessment

mstar - How about JL and Lawes? Parling is only a temporary filler.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Parling will be in the England XV for a looong time, and rightly so.
Fantastic player.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[Patchey]

Parling is in a fairly rich vein of form and is Englands line-out 'guru' so unless he gets injured or someone else takes on the responsibility of running the line out I can't see hm losing out (which, incidentaly, I don't wan t see happen). The current Launchbury/Lawes dynamic works well as they are both players of a similar style and I'd think the competition between the two would spur each of them on. Lawes just needs to stop breaking himself...

 

[nickdnz]

Think people are confusing my criticisms. I'm not criticising the squad - I'm criticising the game from both teams, and the reactions from some Englishmen.

First, I'd like to point out that despite the common misconception - it does rain in New Zealand. In Wellington our winter can be very dire - plenty of rain and a ****-ton of wind. Not usually as cold as it gets in other places, we never get snow really, but we do in fact have to play in some pretty shoddy conditions. And with that obviously means you play somewhat to the conditions. You may decide that it's safer to not throw the ball around too much - to use forwards to gain yards etc. But what happened yesturday wasn't clever rugby despite the conditions. People were running at eachother rather than targeting gaps - not backing themselves to make one pass - even if there were clearly overlaps. Players kicking more out of a lack of idea - than tactical advantage. I didn't turn it into 'SH v NH' in the first place - I don't think playing a game which required playing to make intellegent decisions based on what is in front of them is trademarked by the SH at all. But from my perspective - the reason England won wasn't because of a better game plan or better squad - it was that they played marginally less poor than Ireland, in kickable positions. For me it seemed like a considerable step backwards from the Autum Internationals.

In terms of my comments about the reactions of English fans, I stand by it. I think perhaps I should have emphasized I was addressing a minority (in which Jager - Ulster guy or w/e his name was is one of them - plenty of Englishmen have been totally reasonable). I don't understand how English fans were encouraged by this performance. I'm not saying it cause I'm trying to be a dick, and yes a win is a win. But for all the criticisms many posters have had on players, prior to Saturday's result - they're not eleviated, because they beat a poorly performing Ireland team by 6 points. Plenty are being realistic - but I still can't understand the comparrisons to 2003 which seem to be thrown around, or the praise for the team. If England played like they did against NZ, and I don't mean necessarly stylistically - but with the intensity, creativity and ruthlessness - it could have been a 30 point blowout, but instead like I said, they played marignally better than a poor Irish performance.

And yes - I fear the reactions if England get a grand slam. It doesn't take much for a million Jager's to pop up while the goings good. But I also predict that a loss and everything will become grim yet again - at least for certain posters. I'd say Ireland was somewhat similar before this match, however at least their dislike of their coach is consistant.

 

[smb64]

Parling is in a fairly rich vein of form and is Englands line-out 'guru' so unless he gets injured or someone else takes on the responsibility of running the line out I can't see hm losing out (which, incidentaly, I don't wan t see happen). The current Launchbury/Lawes dynamic works well as they are both players of a similar style and I'd think the competition between the two would spur each of them on. Lawes just needs to stop breaking himself...

And England are in a great situation now, if this success continues players are going to be eager to be involved in the national set up - competition from these players will drive those in the match day squad to continue their form, and as we're finally getting some decent quality in depth people like Lawes can step up to the plate also with people like croft waiting in the wings.

Things look like they might be looking up for the future.

 

[nickdnz]

And England are in a great situation now, if this success continues players are going to be eager to be involved in the national set up - competition from these players will drive those in the match day squad to continue their form, and as we're finally getting some decent quality in depth people like Lawes can step up to the plate also with people like croft waiting in the wings.

Things look like they might be looking up for the future.

:lol: - that's usually where he can be found.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Yoe, nobody is going to take you seriously when nobody understands what the hell you're on about, it gives me a headache just trying to read what you've typed.

I see people trying to make an Ireland-England team, might aswell give it ago, (this is excluding injuries).
15: Kearney 14: Ashton 13: BOD 12: Tuilagi 11: Bowe 10: Sexton 9: Care 8: Wood 7: Robshaw or O'Brien (cant choose) Ferris 5: Launchbury 4: Ryan 3: Cole 2: Best 1: Healy

theres obviously a few positions that are very debatable, ie 15, 7, 4.. but personally I think that's a fair split.

 

[smb64]

I think nick you got to understand that each 6 nations game is like a contained cup final. These teams are playing to win, both Ireland and England were unbeaten and given the conditions of course they were gonna play safe and boring. They would have pre planed to play that type of gameplan if those were the conditions. I mean you can compare it to the World Cup final, not the most exciting game because those teams are simply putting victory above all close.

I really a think if the weather had been better It would of been a much better spectacle with both sides being more expansive.

 

[Big Ewis]

Think people are confusing my criticisms. I'm not criticising the squad - I'm criticising the game from both teams, and the reactions from some Englishmen.

And yes - I fear the reactions if England get a grand slam. It doesn't take much for a million Jager's to pop up while the goings good. But I also predict that a loss and everything will become grim yet again - at least for certain posters. I'd say Ireland was somewhat similar before this match, however at least their dislike of their coach is consistant.

I agree with nick's whole comment, but these two parts are interesting especially.
English fans are more defensive than I'd thought. It seems ANY remark at all that belongs to the realm of criticism rather than complimenting will, de facto, be attacked.

And second: English fans (for the more extreme, possibly more immature ones) have this disgusting tendency of blowing wins out of proportion. It's like they're glad their side wins so they can rub it in your face for a long time, depending on how big the win; 10 years later, a lot are STILL talking about their RWC for e.g.
It's like they'll take (those narrow-minded fans) a win to basically justify why they think they're the superior race, will start throwing stuff like the British Empire and how England hasn't been invaded in a millennium etc...

Those, of the more extreme, but there's a stem of that on this very forum.
And btw, since we're at this, I'd like to come clean. I try to get rid of stereotypes the most I can, honestly, genuinely. But it's things like that that make me want to see England not succeed too much. I don't mind a few wins, but as soon as they get on a streak, or beat a big team or pull smt rare (win in Ireland); from the actual ppl in life, to ppl online generally, to this very forum I find, to lots of English media, there's this typically English thickness and hostility...like they're the masters of the world because they won a Rugby match...

EDIT: if I'm with an English friend and we're watching a match (even France England) and England win, and the guy's totally fairplay about it, and there really is nothing there in the back of his mind, no problem. But there is a great number of those other English fans...there really, really is; nothing to do with clichés or nothing.

Edit 2:

Yoe, nobody is going to take you seriously when nobody understands what the hell you're on about, it gives me a headache just trying to read what you've typed.

Wasn't aware it was that unclear. Hope this above comment makes sense because there sure is a lot of truth in it.

 

[smb64]

Lol the things you have to put up with as an England supporter. HOW very dare we enjoy success I see arrogant rubbish from all country's to be honest. I've sat through French Irish and welsh grand slams and just enjoyed the rugby not coming out damning their fans for being happy.

EDIT: how do people come to this conclusion that English fans are arrogant? All talk really, reading a few opinions and the English media doesn't mean you know us. Because most English rugby fans are good people. Sitting through these comment and accusations year after year just gets tiresome. Maybe go to a game at Twickenham, meet some rugby fans - no rubbing it in your face just fans enjoying their sport.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Yoe, nobody is going to take you seriously when nobody understands what the hell you're on about, it gives me a headache just trying to read what you've typed.

I see people trying to make an Ireland-England team, might aswell give it ago, (this is excluding injuries).
15: Kearney 14: Ashton 13: BOD 12: Tuilagi 11: Bowe 10: Sexton 9: Care 8: Wood 7: Robshaw or O'Brien (cant choose) Ferris 5: Launchbury 4: Ryan 3: Cole 2: Best 1: Healy

theres obviously a few positions that are very debatable, ie 15, 7, 4.. but personally I think that's a fair split.

It's true, he waffles. . . . . ;-)

 

[j'nuh]

I'm a little frustrated by those saying that England are a team without stars but are playing well as a team. England do have stars, they just haven't had the time to establish themselves internationally. Robshaw is as good as any of the backrowers of other nations, but I think he gets overlooked because he's only been an international for a year (he should have been an international long before, but MJ had favourites). Morgan has shown more in one game than Heaslip has in two, and Launchbury + Parling must be close to being penciled in to the wider Lions squad. Cole is the guy that gets a lot of recognition in the pack, but it's probably because he's been around for longer than Lancaster's reign.

 

[Saintjay]

I think I'm ganna bake myself a little cake when England lose a game, because terms like "progessed as a team", "playing clever rugby", "winning ugly" and the mention of the 2003 team (which I'll add was a decade ago), will swiftly be replaced with "poor coaching decisions", "playing the same old style", "same old 10 man rugby". It's marvalous how winning three games in a row makes the English superior to everyone - but one loss makes them the worst team ever.

Not saying this about every Englishmen to be fair, some a very level headed - but there are plenty which seem to get a bit ahead of themselves. It was only a few months ago that the English were saying Robshaw was a terrible captain who made stupid choices, Farrell was a guy who was only in the team cause of his dad, Ashton couldn't tackle a paraplegic on stilts, Youngs was the worst halfback in the Premiership, Farrell had no attacking game, Tuilagi can't pass the ball, Alex Goode only has a kicking game, Brown can't defend on the wing etc, etc, etc. Now they're the team everyone in Europe should aspire to be.

I think people are always going to compare the great teams against the team they have now. In England we tend to do this for more than decades. In Northampton a few years back every man and his dog was there when George Best scored 6 past Northampton town. We do it for all great players and teams Buck Shelford being an example. My view is you can't compare the teams, 2003 had a number of then world class players. The team of 2013 is far off that level and only time will tell.

When the Lancaster era started England played tepid games against Scotland and Italy. My fear like many England fans is they will continue to want to be a team playing Saracens rugby hence the criticism of Farrell at ten. Saracens rugby is not attractive but it is winning rugby. Robshaw did make some terrible decisions and deserved the blame he got. He even admitted he made some errors and not in line with the thinking correctly under pressure ethos of the 2003 team. Youngs but for a drinking rampaging Care would have been benched and behind Dickson who at the time was also playing well at the start of the Lancaster era. Tuilagi was not passing well and was doing a Jamie Roberts by running one line head down rugby. I still have reserves about how Brown and Goode are played, and Ashton is still not the best in the tackle.

All of the above points at the time were valid and perhaps some of them still are. The thing is England seem to be getting better and the areas of concern less so. Are they world beaters no of course not. If they can be only time will tell. Every sixs nation team has a romantic view on how rugby should be played. England fans seem happy with the win at all costs, stick it up your jumper rugby. Wales fans long for the days of the 70's with open free flowing rugby. France fans want to play with flare and skill, a moment of skill that holds your breath. Should any of this change or will it change?. I hope not every team should aspire to be the team they want to be, one that the fans want to see play.

Sorry to again use football as an example but is there a right answer to what fans should want. Take Arsenal as an example great free flowing football with nothing to show for it for years now. Or the George Graham era of the great back four with dull one nil wins. Most Arsenal fans now want to win a trophy and don't care how it takes place. Should England fans want different from the rugby team or would they settle for amazing losing rugby. I do not think they would after all we are a stick it up your jumper nation at heart.