June International Tests: South Africa vs. France (3rd Test) (24/06/2017)

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_heineken, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Big_Grumper

    Big_Grumper Academy Player

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    What is it with these big, bruising forward subs sitting on the bench keeping warm under a blanket? Is it that cold in Jo'berg?
     
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  3. NDC89

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    French are shooting themselves in the foot with some sloppy play and poor decision making I think.
     
  4. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    Hah, it did look funny. Marx and Jantjies not as good so far as in recent weeks. Coetzee looking like a very firm long term solution at fullback for the Boks, he seems quite dependable.
     
  5. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    Quite a subdued half of rugby I thought, although I've maybe been spoilt by watching an amazing finale to the African Gold Cup clash between Uganda and Kenya.

    No real standouts on either side. I guess conditions are a bit greasy and that is having an impact.
     
  6. Big_Grumper

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    Serfontein has been quiet too. The debut prop has done well in the scrum.

    France look very poor. It's only down to poor Springbok decision making that they're within touching distance. I can only see this going one way.
     
  7. SomeOke

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    I thought Dreyer has been poor in the scrums.
    Hougard too excitable and making some poor passes.
    Marx suddenly can't throw in the lin outs again.
    For me poor captaincy choices in terms of going for posts as well.

    All in all not a good half, hope we see some improvement.

    Is this just a case of us not playing well without our captain?? I don't even rate Whitley but maybe he's vital to making this team tick.

    We're lucky the French have been so poor.
     
  8. Big_Grumper

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    Something is missing as you aren't "ticking" as you did in the first two games.
     
  9. Ospervat

    Ospervat Academy Player

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    Was only 16-7 at half time in the first test and 23 -7 in the second. With this quick try SA are on track to repeat the same winning margin.
     
  10. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    Boks misfiring but still putting France to the sword. We won't know until the Rugby Championship if France have been awful here or if the Boks are about a hundred times better than last year. I suspect it is mainly the latter to be honest and for South Africa to be a very comfortable second in that tournament.
     
  11. Ospervat

    Ospervat Academy Player

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    Combo of both. This is an under strength French side however no denying Boks have improved. Real test will be Oz - they are in a slump and depending on how SA do will be the litmus test of true level of ability.
     
  12. Ospervat

    Ospervat Academy Player

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    French starting to look tired- altitude?
     
  13. Big_Grumper

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    Nice line break there by the Ginger Machine. The boy's got a bright future.
     
  14. Ospervat

    Ospervat Academy Player

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    Yeah Ginger Ninja
     
  15. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    Boks back up to 4th in the world and getting a 55k attendance. Crisis, what crisis? :p

    Seriously, I cannot believe how hard they played for the shirt and how coherent their game plan was in all three tests - I never expected such a turnaround in effort and execution under the same manager. I know AC has a decent pedigree, but it just looked like he had completely lost control last year. I'm also not convinced the french side is all that under strength personally and although I'd imagine they'd be tired at the end of a long season that didn't hurt them last year.
     
  16. SomeOke

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    Not particularly impressed with our performance, but a win is a win.
    I do think it was more a case of the French being bad than us being good. Still we only won four matches last year so winning our first three is certainly an improvement.
     
  17. Ospervat

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    5th by my estimate.
     
  18. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    You are quite right. I had a complete brain fart there somehow with a surprising lack of ranking points for hammering France again. The crisis in South African rugby is back on! :D

    They'll be third at the end of the Rugby Championship I reckon.
     
  19. unrated

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    Mixed feelings.

    Firstly I am happy with the win and the series whitewash. They (sa) absolutely did what was needed after the horrible year last year. France is a respected rugby playing nation and one that has one of the better records against us between the European nations. I had a change of heart on some players who I was sceptical of before but they showed that there is promise (such as Andries Coetzee).

    We scored 35 points exactly against France in every match. It's impressive and very suspicious at ththe same time.

    On the other hand I question the strength of this specific French team. Did they make us look good? Are we still going to get destroyed. By the rugby championship sides? It's all questions that is unclear at this stage. Argentina is looking defensively weak and Australia looked weak overall against Scotland and Italy respectively but you never know if it was rather a case of a very strong and hyped up Scotland and Italy sides.

    AC just wants everyone to stop talking about last year. But that's not fair towards us the supporters. Last year should not be forgotten. It should be brought up every time to remind the coaches what happened under their guidance. This should serve as motivation for future success.

    My player rankings based on notable act in the game
    1. Dreyer - 5. (Let us down on a number of occasions)

    2. Marx - 6.5 (ok in open play but missed his target in the line out on more than one occasion. This could have been as a result of the late injury enforced change of Whiteley)

    3. Beast -6 ( did not do anything that I can recall except for the basics of a prop but also did not do too much wrong.)

    4. Etzebeth -8 ( well payed)

    5. Mostert -7 (ndustrious. Not bad at all)

    6. Jaco Kriel -7 (good running and breaking. Good attitude. Ok as a flanker)

    7. Kolisi -6.5 ( good did not fail the boks with bad handling such as occurred in the past. Looks an improved player)

    8. du Preez -6.5 (late positional switch to a position he has not even played for with the Sharks. But worked hard on defence. Gained good carrying meters and always supported runners as a passing option which works well with the attacking style that we are trying to implement.)

    9. Hougaard - 7 (was not great as a scrummy but was a great player all round the park . Won a turnover and was energetic all night. Participated in probably the dumbest thing that I have ever seen on a rugby field. Chased a ball that was kicked in behind by the French. Ball was about to roll out and then he tried to save it but failed and gave the French the lineout )

    10. Jantjies -6 (nothing to criticize him on apart from the bad kicks which he can be forgiven for his cross field kicks is very attacking in intent but it seems they have a low success rate .)

    11 Rhule - 5 (I can't remember much about him in this game)

    12. Serfontein -9 (I never saw the Serfontein that everyone hyped on about after the Junior World Cup. Needed to see on international level why he was so highly rated. He delivered with a great performance has to be first choice going forward)

    13. Kriel -6 ( was workmanlike. Made his tackles mostly. Not bad, not great but scored a try which was nice)

    14. Skosan -6 (was fairly anonymous.)

    15 Coetzee -6 (did what was needed. Did not let his team down)
     
  20. TRF_stormer2010

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    Satisfying but I can't help comapring this series whitewash to to a 10 year old me beating my brother (5) at chess. France really did not offer much though I might be being unfair as I do think our defense was exceptional at times (though only really in tight and predictable exchanges it has to be said).

    Both teams had their best game in the 2nd. Probably to be exected as both have an irritating habit to be disjointed in 'less important' matches.

    I've had my mind changed by Serfontein. Best on show in this series. My thoughts by position;

    1 Kitshoff > Beast. Not that Beast is a liability but I just feel Kitshoff is miles ahead at this stage. Perhaps time to let Kitshoff take the reigns and let the likes of Du Toit, Nche, Nyakane, Gqoboka fight for the bench spot? Will Beast be hitting his best form come 2019?

    2 Marx has had a mixed bag. The 3rd test made those perceptions of him being a brute in the loose but mediocre at the basic resurface. In my mind at least. I have no idea what sort of form Bismarck is in but I am happy enough for Marx and Mbonambi to go forward. Mar with the higher ceiling but really needs to settle. Still very young so I am sure that'll come.

    3 Malherbe was missed here. Oosthuizen has been decent in all three off the bench but I'd be worried for him starting. We do have depth here though and in young. We just need to hold onto them.

    4 Etzebeth also among the top 5 performers. At 60 caps already and still so young. A good game as captain to boot. A pillar to build the pack around.

    5 Mostert, De Jager, PS du Toit... the margins are so small between these guys you just pick whoever makes the most sense at the time. Well stocked.

    6 Jaco Kriel didn't look out of place but I hear he is set to leave? We really need to start keeping hold of our best. We havn't had the best out of Louw or Coetzee and now also seemingly Kriel. Between Kolisi and JL du Preez (who is not a no8) we have our starters but a lot of 'IFs'; IF they are both fit, IF the rest of the team adds value at the breakdown etc.

    7 JL du Preez I believe has shown enough to have cemented his place ahead of Mohoje. If we are running a fetcher and Kolisi at 7 then JLdP is the perfect bench option though I wouldn't pick him at 8. Think Kolisi is better suited.

    8 Whiteley was missed think. I don't thnk he is quite in the same league as a number of test 8's but he does add something we don't have beyond him- the linking, the absolute commitment and leadership. Not to be underestimated.

    9 Hougaard like Marx is our best ball player for his position but lack in the fundamentals of their position and here Cronje was missed. Think we might put some of Marx's misfiring down to last minute shuffles but Hougaard's decision making has proven (last year included) to be a weakness.

    10... unpopular opinion but I am still not convinced with Jantjies..

    11/14... if we aren't bringing our wings into the game they need to offer something extra like Habana's work rate or JPP's physical presence or something else (Combrinck and Lleyd's kicking or play making for instance). Skosan and Rhule were sadly passengers throughout the series and I don't just blame the game plan here.

    12 Serfontein has been excellent. Hope he can keep it up. I've been saying we should play him at 13 to accommodate RJvR or if they might get fit and nearer to Serfontein's level of commitment Steyn or De Allende but if a player plays like this continuously by all means let others adpat to suit him.

    13 Kriel ATM. I am still unconvinced about him defensively but not sure that is entirely warranted. He has the addition of playing alongside Serfontein at the Bulls... I'm not convinced but happy to be proven wrong (or right) (as if it has anything t do with me LOL)

    15 Coetzee... like Jantjies.. adequate. Maybe even a little more but that's about it. All he really needs to do to add value at this stage over our previous 15s is to show up and have his adequate game. The bar is sadly quite low for Bok 15. Has been for some time.
     
  21. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Well, If we are going to play like that against the All Blacks, we are going to have a very bad day.

    Now I can see the improvements we have made, and it has been a revelation in comparison to last year, but I fear that we will have a few more losses this year than we would've wanted.

    Our defence was again very good, and I see AC has now asked Brendan Venter to be a consultant on a permanent basis.

    Here's my issues.

    Props:
    Beast has brought absolutely no value to the team. He didn't scrummage well, his runs were poor and on many occasions were caught behind the advantage line. Why keep Kitshoff on the bench when he's clearly our number 1 loosehead prop? And by the look of things, will be for a very long time. Dreyer I thought is being very unfairly judged. It was his debut, and still he did more than Beast.

    Hooker:
    Marx had a poorer game than the first 2. Maybe there was a mix-up with the calls at lineout time as in the previous 2 games, without Whiteley there?

    Locks:
    Is it just me, or is Eben a poor scrummager?? It seems like he's always behind the better scrummaging prop when it comes to the scrums? Just something I picked up the past few weeks. Mostert, I'm still not convinced about him. He's for me the same as Lood, just a little shorter... I think that Jenkins is knocking on the door even more now.

    Flankers:
    Jaco Kriel was immense, and it begs the question, why is Kolisi so quiet when Kriel is on the field?

    Scrumhalf & Flyhalf:
    It seems like Elton can only play if he has a Lions scrumhalf feeding him the ball. There was really poor communication between Elton and Hougie. Elton again didn't impress me. Seems like he's just keeping that spot warm for the others when they are fit again.

    Centres:
    Jan Serfontein has been a shining light at 12. Probably the only player that has performed well in each of the 3 tests. His defence this past weekend was just great, and It was good to see him take the gap like in the old days. He's really getting into a good form again. Jesse Kriel was better than Mapoe.

    Wings:
    Here is my big worry. Neither Rhule nor Skosan are very good defenders. Rhule has the record for the most missed tackles in Super Rugby, and he kept that going in the tests. Under the high balls they also knuckle under, and in open play they have one or two good moments, and that's it. Neither of them seem hungry, or looking to make something happen like Combrink and Habana. If we pick them against the All Blacks, this will be the main target to strike.

    Fullback:
    Coetzee I think has now made the 15 jersey his own. He's growing nicely into that position, and is a real grafter. His boot has saved us in pressure moments too.

    In Conclusion:
    It's a pity that we had such poor opponents, because all that this series has done, is to save Allister Coetzee from being fired.
     
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