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munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Oct 6 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
What your suggestion so wise guy[/b]
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Bullitt
Guest
Now there's no need for that. But then again, I'm not the one who's blaming the IRB for a blatantly wrong and short punishment handed out by the IRFU, to an Ireland international player, not long before the AI series.
Paint it whatever colour you want, the IRFU got it deliberately wrong and everyone can see exactly what they've done. What with all the other scandals going on right now, their timing couldn't be worse and this will only serve to highlight misgivings in the game. Which in turn drags its name even further through the mud.
So my suggestion would be: Handout a correct punishment instead of blatantly cheating the system.
Paint it whatever colour you want, the IRFU got it deliberately wrong and everyone can see exactly what they've done. What with all the other scandals going on right now, their timing couldn't be worse and this will only serve to highlight misgivings in the game. Which in turn drags its name even further through the mud.
So my suggestion would be: Handout a correct punishment instead of blatantly cheating the system.
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Olyy
Guest
Should've been at least 8weeks imo, as that stamp was worse than parisses gouge over the summer, and he got 8weeks for it
But there's not point in *****ing and moaning about it, what's done is done
Also, i can't see a second stamp in that video, by Hayes or O'Connell. From what i remember o'connell wears adidas boots as well, so you should be able to tell whether it was hayes white/black boots, or oconnells blue/black
But there's not point in *****ing and moaning about it, what's done is done
Also, i can't see a second stamp in that video, by Hayes or O'Connell. From what i remember o'connell wears adidas boots as well, so you should be able to tell whether it was hayes white/black boots, or oconnells blue/black
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shazbooger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Oct 6 2009, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Will it? f*** no.
Stupid administration.
Ahhh your right of course. But until the Magners league, or european rugby as a whole invests in a neutral or independent citing process these things are always going to happen. you know it, we know it, and we all agreed it should be put in place.
Will it? f*** no.
Stupid administration.
M
munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Oct 6 2009, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I know IRFU is wrong but I saying they not alone
I know IRFU was wrong I saying IRB should set up independant boards like Irish in SH and NZ in NH etc
I know IRFU is wrong but I saying they not alone
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dullonien
Guest
I can't believe you're defending Hayes munstermuffin. I agree previous record should be considered, but not to this extent. I also don't care that he's 'old' and 'deserves' a nice send-off. His actions could have ended a highly rated props career, but you're happy that the lovable Bull get's his last (possibly) run-out with Ireland!
He was blatantly looking at what he was doing, and even if he wasn't, it's bloody reckless! I remember Brian Moore once commentating that in his playing days he 'always knew where his boots were', it's what makes a potentially life-threatening mess, into a safe game! The bans handed out recently have been farcical, from Burger's eye gouging scandal, to Rhys Thomas' non event (apparently), to this! This merited at least 20weeks imo, while Rhys Thomas deserved 6-8weeks.
What makes this worse, is the timing of it all. For the ban to end 1 day before Ireland play, is just so obvious, it's laughable. The IRB should do something about it, either set-up indipendant citing panels (best option), or to fine the unions for blatant manipulation of the system. If we look in comparison to some previous punishments: Hartely - 6months for gouging (this is what Burger should have got!), Henson - 10weeks for use of an elbow etc. I'm not sure, but I think stamping on someones face while he's unable to protect himslef is a bit more serious that elbowing someone in retaliation!
This needs to be sorted out! How many more events untill the IRB do something. It's turning our game into the laughing stock of the sporting world. What mother would want or even allow their child to start playing rugby after she sees things like this going on? I thought rugby union was a 'thugs sport played by gentlemen', not anymore!
He was blatantly looking at what he was doing, and even if he wasn't, it's bloody reckless! I remember Brian Moore once commentating that in his playing days he 'always knew where his boots were', it's what makes a potentially life-threatening mess, into a safe game! The bans handed out recently have been farcical, from Burger's eye gouging scandal, to Rhys Thomas' non event (apparently), to this! This merited at least 20weeks imo, while Rhys Thomas deserved 6-8weeks.
What makes this worse, is the timing of it all. For the ban to end 1 day before Ireland play, is just so obvious, it's laughable. The IRB should do something about it, either set-up indipendant citing panels (best option), or to fine the unions for blatant manipulation of the system. If we look in comparison to some previous punishments: Hartely - 6months for gouging (this is what Burger should have got!), Henson - 10weeks for use of an elbow etc. I'm not sure, but I think stamping on someones face while he's unable to protect himslef is a bit more serious that elbowing someone in retaliation!
This needs to be sorted out! How many more events untill the IRB do something. It's turning our game into the laughing stock of the sporting world. What mother would want or even allow their child to start playing rugby after she sees things like this going on? I thought rugby union was a 'thugs sport played by gentlemen', not anymore!
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munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 7 2009, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I still don't think it was intentional (As The Disciplinary Commitee who heard case also stated)
But agree with your idea and have said it before that the IRB have to set up independant citing panels as i've said already. It only way that it can be stamped out. Like it going back long time eg. BOD speared by Umaga and Hooker
But my main point was why should IRFU lead by example and weaken National squad when other unions don't.
(Which is why we need independant panels)
As for the Bull I hearing an appeal is expected.
And as for been back before game vs Aus.
It on Sunday only due to Croker booked on Sat Nov 14th by FAI in the case of world cup play-off.
Wasn't defending actions just happy we didn't loose him for long.
I still don't think it was intentional (As The Disciplinary Commitee who heard case also stated)
But agree with your idea and have said it before that the IRB have to set up independant citing panels as i've said already. It only way that it can be stamped out. Like it going back long time eg. BOD speared by Umaga and Hooker
But my main point was why should IRFU lead by example and weaken National squad when other unions don't.
(Which is why we need independant panels)
As for the Bull I hearing an appeal is expected.
And as for been back before game vs Aus.
It on Sunday only due to Croker booked on Sat Nov 14th by FAI in the case of world cup play-off.
M
munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Oct 6 2009, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Eg. <strike>ML = Scottish, Irish & Welsh </strike> ML = NZ, Argentina, Japan, Eng
GP = Ire, Aus, USA, etc ..
Agreed IRFU are wrong I saying there should be Independant Citing panel elected at IRB and from all corners of world not just
Eg. <strike>ML = Scottish, Irish & Welsh </strike> ML = NZ, Argentina, Japan, Eng
GP = Ire, Aus, USA, etc ..
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dullonien
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 7 2009, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Not arguing why the game is on Sun, just that the ban convenintly finishes the day before. He would probably have gotten 5 weeks 30 days if the game was on the Saturday!
Why are you happy to have a thug available to play? Don't go on about his 15 year record etc. it only takes one stud to blind someone/crack a skull etc. One time is one time too many. If I had my way, that thug at the Scarlets would have got a lengthy ban, hopefully stamping out his stupid antics once and for good. Isn't that what the punishments are for, to act as a deterent? They're not there as a gesture.
As I said before, these incidents will be tunring potential supporters away from our sport, in a similar way diving etc. has turned plenty of people off football. The difference is, football is so huge anyway it doesn't matter. Rugby is still fighting for every supporter they can get. I am not happy with the way things have been dealt with, and I'm not happy that Rhys Thomas got off scot free, why are you happy that Hayes basically got the same?
He'd be stupid to appeal imo. He's got a great result (for him) out of it. If the media put the pressure on, then the citing commitee may be forced into increasing the length of ban. It's a bit of an insult to apeal against an already very lenient ban, especially when a very similar incident in the GP has just got double the ban!
Not arguing why the game is on Sun, just that the ban convenintly finishes the day before. He would probably have gotten 5 weeks 30 days if the game was on the Saturday!
Why are you happy to have a thug available to play? Don't go on about his 15 year record etc. it only takes one stud to blind someone/crack a skull etc. One time is one time too many. If I had my way, that thug at the Scarlets would have got a lengthy ban, hopefully stamping out his stupid antics once and for good. Isn't that what the punishments are for, to act as a deterent? They're not there as a gesture.
As I said before, these incidents will be tunring potential supporters away from our sport, in a similar way diving etc. has turned plenty of people off football. The difference is, football is so huge anyway it doesn't matter. Rugby is still fighting for every supporter they can get. I am not happy with the way things have been dealt with, and I'm not happy that Rhys Thomas got off scot free, why are you happy that Hayes basically got the same?
M
MunsterMan
Guest
Apparently the maximum ban he could have been given was 8 weeks anyway, because it was "an internal matter"!?!
I highly doubt Hayes will appeal, his reputation has been damaged enough already.
I highly doubt Hayes will appeal, his reputation has been damaged enough already.
D
Daylightfire
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 7 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Not arguing why the game is on Sun, just that the ban convenintly finishes the day before. He would probably have gotten 5 weeks 30 days if the game was on the Saturday!
Why are you happy to have a thug available to play? Don't go on about his 15 year record etc. it only takes one stud to blind someone/crack a skull etc. One time is one time too many. If I had my way, that thug at the Scarlets would have got a lengthy ban, hopefully stamping out his stupid antics once and for good. Isn't that what the punishments are for, to act as a deterent? They're not there as a gesture.
As I said before, these incidents will be tunring potential supporters away from our sport, in a similar way diving etc. has turned plenty of people off football. The difference is, football is so huge anyway it doesn't matter. Rugby is still fighting for every supporter they can get. I am not happy with the way things have been dealt with, and I'm not happy that Rhys Thomas got off scot free, why are you happy that Hayes basically got the same?
[/b][/quote]
Excellent point, well made and well written!
Also one I agree with entirely! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
On a seperate matter, Munstermuffin, Is English your First Langauge? ( Not having a dig just interested ).
Back to the Matter in hand, there should be an Independent Citing Commission made up of elected members from each union. They are elected / put forward by their union at the end of each calendar year. They meet up once a month and dish out Citings.
That would end any skullduggery!
He'd be stupid to appeal imo. He's got a great result (for him) out of it. If the media put the pressure on, then the citing commitee may be forced into increasing the length of ban. It's a bit of an insult to apeal against an already very lenient ban, especially when a very similar incident in the GP has just got double the ban!
Not arguing why the game is on Sun, just that the ban convenintly finishes the day before. He would probably have gotten 5 weeks 30 days if the game was on the Saturday!
Why are you happy to have a thug available to play? Don't go on about his 15 year record etc. it only takes one stud to blind someone/crack a skull etc. One time is one time too many. If I had my way, that thug at the Scarlets would have got a lengthy ban, hopefully stamping out his stupid antics once and for good. Isn't that what the punishments are for, to act as a deterent? They're not there as a gesture.
As I said before, these incidents will be tunring potential supporters away from our sport, in a similar way diving etc. has turned plenty of people off football. The difference is, football is so huge anyway it doesn't matter. Rugby is still fighting for every supporter they can get. I am not happy with the way things have been dealt with, and I'm not happy that Rhys Thomas got off scot free, why are you happy that Hayes basically got the same?
[/b][/quote]
Excellent point, well made and well written!
Also one I agree with entirely! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
On a seperate matter, Munstermuffin, Is English your First Langauge? ( Not having a dig just interested ).
Back to the Matter in hand, there should be an Independent Citing Commission made up of elected members from each union. They are elected / put forward by their union at the end of each calendar year. They meet up once a month and dish out Citings.
That would end any skullduggery!
S
shazbooger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daylightfire @ Oct 7 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Other then that, the bit about the independent citing commission was bang on.
Well not to be pedantic but John Hayes is not a thug (thats just Lazy). You cant ignore 15 years of an unblemished disciplinary record. You cant compare Thomas and Hayes. You cant compare the Welsh "no case to answer" to the Irish six week ban.
Other then that, the bit about the independent citing commission was bang on.
M
munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 7 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Not arguing why the game is on Sun, just that the ban convenintly finishes the day before. He would probably have gotten 5 weeks 30 days if the game was on the Saturday!
Why are you happy to have a thug available to play? Don't go on about his 15 year record etc. it only takes one stud to blind someone/crack a skull etc. One time is one time too many. If I had my way, that thug at the Scarlets would have got a lengthy ban, hopefully stamping out his stupid antics once and for good. Isn't that what the punishments are for, to act as a deterent? They're not there as a gesture.
As I said before, these incidents will be tunring potential supporters away from our sport, in a similar way diving etc. has turned plenty of people off football. The difference is, football is so huge anyway it doesn't matter. Rugby is still fighting for every supporter they can get. I am not happy with the way things have been dealt with, and I'm not happy that Rhys Thomas got off scot free, why are you happy that Hayes basically got the same?
[/b][/quote]
Just what is been reported here an appeal will be lodged once offical notification is issued (paperwork).
But John Hayes is not a thug and I just glad he not missing much as I believe it wasn't intentional as was agreed by citing panel. And as far as pressure from media to increase the ban, be surprised there absolutely no pressure from media at all.
Oh yeah that also why he appealling (Hayes) because the citing panel gave 6weeks despite agreeing it was unintentional.
But, we still have to wait to see an offical appeal lodged.
But Dullonien I don't condone stamping if it was intentional and do want to clean game up just don't think Hayes did it with intent to injure Cian Healy. But that why I happy is because if i can but it in some relative way - I'd consider it manslaughter as opposed to murder ..... Great example
But agree something needs to be done ASAP as it is getting worst.
On seperate not. -> Daylightfire.
I speak Irish 1st preference then English - (Smart Ass)
2nd of all. Harlequins can't even consider commenting as what they did last year was worst than any incident mentioned and I for one think it a disgrace they are even in Heineken Cup this year.
If they scored (drop-goal wasn't far away) vs Leinster then the game would've been in major dispute.
He'd be stupid to appeal imo. He's got a great result (for him) out of it. If the media put the pressure on, then the citing commitee may be forced into increasing the length of ban. It's a bit of an insult to apeal against an already very lenient ban, especially when a very similar incident in the GP has just got double the ban!
Not arguing why the game is on Sun, just that the ban convenintly finishes the day before. He would probably have gotten 5 weeks 30 days if the game was on the Saturday!
Why are you happy to have a thug available to play? Don't go on about his 15 year record etc. it only takes one stud to blind someone/crack a skull etc. One time is one time too many. If I had my way, that thug at the Scarlets would have got a lengthy ban, hopefully stamping out his stupid antics once and for good. Isn't that what the punishments are for, to act as a deterent? They're not there as a gesture.
As I said before, these incidents will be tunring potential supporters away from our sport, in a similar way diving etc. has turned plenty of people off football. The difference is, football is so huge anyway it doesn't matter. Rugby is still fighting for every supporter they can get. I am not happy with the way things have been dealt with, and I'm not happy that Rhys Thomas got off scot free, why are you happy that Hayes basically got the same?
[/b][/quote]
Just what is been reported here an appeal will be lodged once offical notification is issued (paperwork).
But John Hayes is not a thug and I just glad he not missing much as I believe it wasn't intentional as was agreed by citing panel. And as far as pressure from media to increase the ban, be surprised there absolutely no pressure from media at all.
Oh yeah that also why he appealling (Hayes) because the citing panel gave 6weeks despite agreeing it was unintentional.
But, we still have to wait to see an offical appeal lodged.
But Dullonien I don't condone stamping if it was intentional and do want to clean game up just don't think Hayes did it with intent to injure Cian Healy. But that why I happy is because if i can but it in some relative way - I'd consider it manslaughter as opposed to murder ..... Great example
But agree something needs to be done ASAP as it is getting worst.
On seperate not. -> Daylightfire.
I speak Irish 1st preference then English - (Smart Ass)
2nd of all. Harlequins can't even consider commenting as what they did last year was worst than any incident mentioned and I for one think it a disgrace they are even in Heineken Cup this year.
If they scored (drop-goal wasn't far away) vs Leinster then the game would've been in major dispute.
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An Tarbh
Guest
don't turn this into a *** for tat argument, you completely invalidate anything you say by stooping to such levels.
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Olyy
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 7 2009, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Tis a bit silly
You can't say he can't comment on it because of something a team he supports did :S
Tis a bit silly
D
dullonien
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 7 2009, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Sorry, but I can't agree with the unintentional part. He obviously knew he was stamping on something, otherwise why stamp? Wheather he intentionally aimed for the face or not is neither here nor there, that's what he hit. If you can't see what you're stamping on, that in some way makes things worse. It's then just down to luck (or unluck) if you hit the face, the arm, a leg etc. etc. Imo there is no such thing as an unintentional stamp, it's just a rediculous statement. He either put his foot on someone with more force than he would if he were just pumping in the maul, or he didn't!
The video also obviously shows him looking down when doing it. He also quite notibly stops pushing in the maul and basically climbs on top of Healey. I can't see how it wasn't intentional on every basis.
Sorry, but I can't agree with the unintentional part. He obviously knew he was stamping on something, otherwise why stamp? Wheather he intentionally aimed for the face or not is neither here nor there, that's what he hit. If you can't see what you're stamping on, that in some way makes things worse. It's then just down to luck (or unluck) if you hit the face, the arm, a leg etc. etc. Imo there is no such thing as an unintentional stamp, it's just a rediculous statement. He either put his foot on someone with more force than he would if he were just pumping in the maul, or he didn't!
The video also obviously shows him looking down when doing it. He also quite notibly stops pushing in the maul and basically climbs on top of Healey. I can't see how it wasn't intentional on every basis.
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shazbooger
Guest
I repeat.
John Hayes is not a thug (thats just Lazy). You cant ignore 15 years of an unblemished disciplinary record. You cant compare Thomas and Hayes. You cant compare the Welsh "no case to answer" to the Irish six week ban.
Other then that, the bit about the independent citing commission was bang on.
John Hayes is not a thug (thats just Lazy). You cant ignore 15 years of an unblemished disciplinary record. You cant compare Thomas and Hayes. You cant compare the Welsh "no case to answer" to the Irish six week ban.
Other then that, the bit about the independent citing commission was bang on.
O
O'Rothlain
Guest
Okay, so I'm a little late posting this, but here is an article regarding the ban from Emerald Rugby: http://www.emeraldrugby.com/News/Munster-N...6-week-ban.aspx
Fair enough. He's getting banned, but available for the Internationals. I think his character is what played the biggest factor, but if he starts making a habit of it, then I will agree with some of you at throwing the book at him.
Let's hope Tony Buckley takes advantage of this situation.
Fair enough. He's getting banned, but available for the Internationals. I think his character is what played the biggest factor, but if he starts making a habit of it, then I will agree with some of you at throwing the book at him.
Let's hope Tony Buckley takes advantage of this situation.
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shazbooger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (O'Rothlain @ Oct 7 2009, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
A little late for Buckley. He's what 29 now?
D
Daylightfire
Guest
I wasn't actually trying to have a dig Munstermuffin, I was generally interested as you mostly spell every word correctly but quite often your grammer is off or you leave words out.
Back on the topic, if they did form the suggested all empowered International Citing Commission it would definately solve all these arguments pretty much as soon as it took action, But then we would have nothing to argue about and would have to talk just about the game
Still it would allow the standardising of punishments for offences.
Back on the topic, if they did form the suggested all empowered International Citing Commission it would definately solve all these arguments pretty much as soon as it took action, But then we would have nothing to argue about and would have to talk just about the game
Still it would allow the standardising of punishments for offences.
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