New look England team

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by danny, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. danny

    danny Guest

    In my opinion the make up of the England rugby team is going to be a lot different for 2008 with the passing of the world cup. Who do you think is going to break through and be the future of the team?
     
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  3. Sir Speedy

    Sir Speedy Guest

    Danny Cipriani, he's looking extremely impressive at Wasps and will soon be the first choice 10 in England (If he can get rid of the errors he made in the second half against Clermont).
    Ryan Lamb, could beat Cipriani to the shirt, maybe.
    James Haskell, not seen much of him but the commentators speak highly of him.

    I'm not into GP rugby, so I don't know much more than these three. Cipriani could be the best player in his position. It would be good to see him play against James Hook in the opening Six Nations game.
     
  4. danny

    danny Guest

    Cipriani is a real talent but I do have a few worries about his control of a game. He is at a similar stage in his development to what Lamb was last year. Eventually I think that Cipriani will be the better ten due to his intelligence and attitude, that is what lets Lamb down.
    As for Haskell, he has to be in. What a player . He can play eight or six and is a real dynamic ball carrier, something England have been crying out for. I would like to see him given the responsibility of playing number 8 and letting him have the time to grow into the world class player he can be.
     
  5. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    Well, if I were England coach, my selection come February would look something along the lines of;

    1. Sheridan
    2. Hartley
    3. Stevens
    4. Deacon
    5. Shaw
    6. Easter
    7. Rees
    8. Haskell
    9. Care
    10. Lamb
    11. Banahan
    12. Allen
    13. Hipkiss
    14. Ashton
    15. Abandaman

    16. Chuter
    17. Freshwater
    18. Blaze/Hoy
    19. Lund
    20. Richards
    21. Cipriani
    22. Strettle

    All this talk of sticking with experience then slowly bringing in the youngsters is horseshit IMO. England have a perfect opportunity to start afresh with a young squad who can gel together for 4 years before New Zealand in 1011, I say blood the "youngsters" now and get them to gel. After which we can add even more up and coming players such as Grant Anderson in a couple of years when this team is starting to work together.

    Then we will see the "Jake White" effect going into the next World Cup, maybe claiming a few supprise scalps along the way.
     
  6. danny

    danny Guest

    I agree with a lot of your thoughts and selections but in my view some experience must be used to help out and win in the short term. My team would be:

    1 Sheriden
    2 Hartley
    3 Stevens
    4Shaw
    5 Brown
    6Corry
    7 Rees
    8 Haskell
    9 Gommersal
    10 Wilkinson
    11 S.Daniel
    12 Allen
    13 Strettle
    14 Vainikolo
    15Tait


    16 Ciriani
    17Richards
    18Croft
    19Chuter
    20Moody
    21 Hikiss
    22 NickWood
     
  7. Mr. Laxative

    Mr. Laxative Guest

    Vainikolo's a big call isn't it? I was watching a Guinness Prem game on ESPN - Australia, the other week and was impressed by his pace and size, but he still reminds me somewhat of Wendell Sailor...

    Whatever happened to Van Gisbergen?
     
  8. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    MVG was a victim of Andy Robson inept man management, given 37 seconds on the field for England (to make sure the ABs don't get him) before never getting selected again. This shot his confidence when he was arguably the best player in the country and he's never been the same, or for that matter particularly good, since.
     
  9. Sad as I am to say it, Dylan Hartley will be nowhere near ready for England duty when the Six Nations rolls around. Until he starts throwing properly at the lineout and gets back the dynamism in the loose which made people take note of him in the first place, other more consistent players will always be ahead of him in the queue.
     
  10. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    Whilst I agree he's not quite as good as last season, the only real fault with Hartleys game at the moment is his lineout (which is in part due to the rubbish locks Saints have). In the loose he's been very handy and his scrummaging has been alright, so maybe being put alongside a better pack would help him get his form back for the set-piece.
     
  11. dundeesmiffy

    dundeesmiffy Guest

    I struggle to watch GP or any club rugby for that matter, but from what I've managed to watch.....

    1. Vickery
    2. Titterel (sp?)
    3. Sheridan
    4. Shaw
    5. Brown
    6. Hazell
    7. Moody
    8. Lund
    9. Gommersal (sp?)
    10. Cipriani gk
    11. Varndell
    12. Farrell/Tindall c
    13. Hipkiss
    14. Foden
    15. Tait (I think he is an astute fullback)

    16. Reegan
    17. Freshwater
    18. Corry
    19. Worsley
    20. Simpson-Daniel
    21. Wigglesworth
    22. Haughton

    i support bringing in young players, maybe not for the 6N but for test matches etc.
    this is the team i'd like to see going into the world cup, minus some of the older players.

    i also understand the irony of a Scot making up an England team......
     
  12. The day that backrow combination plays for England is the day I give up on rugby and devote my attention to fishing.

    You also appear to be one of the few people who doesn't think that Andy Farrell is ****.
     
  13. danny

    danny Guest

    I have only seen Hartley play on TV and that was last season. I must admit he looked superb. Has he been injured and that is the reason for his current lack of form? He looked like his conditioning was his only problem last season. If his throwing is poor we should discount him for the time being as this is now the no1 reqirment for todays hooker. We have Azam at Glos who is superb around the park but dreadfull at throwing in. Perhaps Hartley would be better used as an impact sub. What do you think?
     
  14. bryano

    bryano Guest

    Don't really know that much, but I think Cipriani is a must
     
  15. dundeesmiffy

    dundeesmiffy Guest

    1. Consider the majority of English back rowers with at least moderate international experience are all getting on a bit, I thought I was just trying to pick the two I've seen the most of, and have been impressed with. I can't remember what year, but Hazells performance in 7s was impressive.

    2. Andy Farrell maybe isn't as good in Union as he was in League, and I'd like to see him tried at Flanker to see how he fares but I still see him as a highly credible player.

    It's fairly irrelivent anyway, looks like when the next world cup comes round you'll still have the same old relics playing for you (Dalagllio(sp?), grasping onto what's left of there careers.
    The English national team is turning into the Rugby equivelant of WCW circa later 1990's.
    There are so many good young players, but every coach you've had has kept pretty much the same basic outline as the team that won the RWC03. Admittedly Tom Varndell hasn't had as good a career in XV as he has in 7's but he's only had about 2-3 shots at it, don't condem him for that.

    It's not just that I'm Scottish, but I think England will suffer the most if the new rules come in, luckily you have guys like Cipriani, Tait and Cohen (maybe) who are strong ball carrying backs who don't try to force penalties because quite frankly 12-9 victories are nothing to be proud of. The world cup final was one of the most boring matches I have ever seen.

    Sorry for the rant, I just don't suffer idiots who offer nothing but critisism well. Also, Brian Ashton leaving the door open for LD miffed me off.
     
  16. danny

    danny Guest

    1. Consider the majority of English back rowers with at least moderate international experience are all getting on a bit, I thought I was just trying to pick the two I've seen the most of, and have been impressed with. I can't remember what year, but Hazells performance in 7s was impressive.

    2. Andy Farrell maybe isn't as good in Union as he was in League, and I'd like to see him tried at Flanker to see how he fares but I still see him as a highly credible player.

    It's fairly irrelivent anyway, looks like when the next world cup comes round you'll still have the same old relics playing for you (Dalagllio(sp?), grasping onto what's left of there careers.
    The English national team is turning into the Rugby equivelant of WCW circa later 1990's.
    There are so many good young players, but every coach you've had has kept pretty much the same basic outline as the team that won the RWC03. Admittedly Tom Varndell hasn't had as good a career in XV as he has in 7's but he's only had about 2-3 shots at it, don't condem him for that.

    It's not just that I'm Scottish, but I think England will suffer the most if the new rules come in, luckily you have guys like Cipriani, Tait and Cohen (maybe) who are strong ball carrying backs who don't try to force penalties because quite frankly 12-9 victories are nothing to be proud of. The world cup final was one of the most boring matches I have ever seen.

    Sorry for the rant, I just don't suffer idiots who offer nothing but critisism well. Also, Brian Ashton leaving the door open for LD miffed me off.
    [/b][/quote]

    Fair play ive listened to some ******** on this forum, but you take the ****. I really hope your trying to wind the rest of us up.
    You start by saying that you struggle to watch much GP or any club rugby- Why comment on something you dont know anything about then.
    You pick a back row of;
    6 Hazel
    7 Moody
    8 Lund

    Hazel is the smallest open side in the league who couldnt play blind side at club level yet alone international.
    Moody at 7, not bad bt not as good as rees. No probs with that.
    Lund at 8,What the f***!!!!!!! He is a fine open side and can play blind but 8 is not him.

    You say Cipriani and Tait are strong carrying backs, really would you call them crash ball merchants, dont think so.
    Cohen, not a hope of playing for England again at least for this season.
    Farrell is a pile of **** and should never get near the red rose again.
    You thought the WC final was the most boring game you have ever seen-Big games are sometimes strangled by fear and tension that is sport , that is rugby at the highest level.

    Dont have a go at Saints fan Webby for pointing out what a clueless twat you are.
    PS. I hope they bring back Dallaglio just to **** you off.
    Kind Regards. :%#%#:
     
  17. You pick Lund at 8, a position I don't remember having seen him play at the top level. You then compound matters by putting a 6 at 7 and a 7 at 6. And Andy Hazell is an ordinary club level thug at best.

    You also consider Mike Tindall, a man who cannot throw a decent pass, at 12 ahead of youngsters such as Anthony Allen. You were better off with Farrell.

    Finally you put Ben Foden, an up and coming scrum half who has deputised at fullback, on the wing.

    Why say you struggle to watch the Guinness Premiership, then moan when I point out the weak links in your team?
     
  18. Wilkinson has to stay at 10 for at least a little longer, maybe slot into 12 to help get the youngsters up to pace. AT the very least he will remain in the squad for sometime......I think Hipkiss and Tait will eventually become the centre pairing of the future for england, Flood will squeeze his way into the backline somewhere, and as already said Lamb and Ciprani will be coming through.

    As far as backrow combos go

    6.Haskell
    7.Lund
    8. Forrester? Crane?

    I dunno, Forrester's getting a bit old considering his lack of international experience...Jordan Crane of Leicester Tigers could evolve into a fantastic #8 given time

    I see a very bright future for england! RWC 2011 here we come!
     
  19. stormmaster1

    stormmaster1 Guest

    I don't think Ashton has left the door open for Dallaglio. He said he will pick the best on form players in each position. So Dallaglio's out.



    Lots of talk about which young promising players to include, but i think we should also think which of the older heads should stay. T'Eh Mite's team looked good on paper, but so much inexperience learning test match rugby at the same time wouldn't work. So which of the older heads would you lot like to see around the squad (whether 1st XV or benched). leadership will be key to bring on any young squad, and i think experience in the front 5 and at half back is most desirable. Of the more seasoned players availible, i'd like to see the front row remain similar, particularly Stevens and Sheridan. Vickery, Corry and Wilko were the key leader figures in the side in the WC and should be in the mix up. There are several experienced locks to choose from and in the back row i think i'd keep Moody as he's more dynamic than Worsley. I think that would be the core of the side (i.e. most of the pack), with the young talent really in positions where they can lift the pace. The difficulty will be getting some experience in the backline, as wilkinson and catt have been the two key figures for this.
     
  20. In the short term, England have to keep Gomersal at 9. There simply aren't enough top level scrum halves pushing for selection at this point, and a man of his experience (and recent form) at 9 would provide a vital link between a pack and backline both likely to include a number of new(ish) faces.
     
  21. Surely you would say Ellis is a better scrum half than Gommersal? considering the potential as well as his effective performances in the 6 nations Ellis is the better bet im also the fact Gommersal is close to recieving his pension. ;)
     
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