New Zealand Haka Is Arrogance?

[Sam Owen]

The All Blacks are NZ's highest representative RU side... Haka or no Haka.

As a proud Maori who knows atleast 20 or so different Haka ... and who actually speaks Maori, and uses Maori on a day to day basis... we make far too much of the Haka in our Rugby.

The Haka these days is a money making vessel for the NZRFU and Ngati Toa... i dont necessarily think thats a bad thing... good on them i say...

but dont go making the Haka out to be more important than it is... its a pre-match ritual like any other in world sport...

Everytime I see the All Blacks play they do the haka 1st, even in a changing room. You take away the haka you take away the Maoridom in the All Blacks (Im not even Maori and Im defending their dance in the All Blacks).

 

[Sam Owen]

From the All Blacks point of view its really easy.... The All Blacks dont HAVE to the Haka before every game... it hinders performance more than anything... id be just as happy if they only did the Haka in front of NZ crowds only.

Ahhh so thats why Wales dont want the All Blacks to do the haka.

Its nice to read an All Black point of view.

if you need to jump up and down, slap your chest and pukana the opposition to 'Amp up'... then you shouldn't be wearing the jersey.

you should be 'Amped up' already...

in a sport where the smallest margins can be the difference between wins and losses... how much energy do you think they exert performing the Haka?? have you ever though that perhaps that energy could be put to use in the game?

i have no problem with them doing it... just as long as they treat both the Culture of the Haka... and the Culture of the Jersey with respect.

Your one of the 1st Maoris I ever met that constantly suggests that the haka is something the All Blacks could do without.

Its a good thing you dont have a problem with them doing it (seen as your Maori and all) but even if you did they'd do it anyway because ahh..they've been doing it for awhile now and its hard to imagine them without.

Fair point about the excertion of spent energy going into the haka but cmon brother, they're professional athletes.

 

[shiznit26]

Your one of the 1st Maoris I ever met that constantly suggests that the haka is something the All Blacks could do without.

You obviously dont know many Maori do you...

Take it from someone who was brought up, lives and works in a Maori environment.

As long as when they do perform it... they perform it with respect than no one cares.

Its a good thing you dont have a problem with them doing it (seen as your Maori and all) but even if you did they'd do it anyway because ahh..they've been doing it for awhile now and its hard to imagine them without.

your limited imagination isn't the reason why they will keep doing it. the relevant stakeholders make money from it. as soon as this stops happening.... dont be surprised if you have to grow up and realize that there a sports team... not a roopu kapa haka.

Fair point about the excertion of spent energy going into the haka but cmon brother, they're professional athletes.

yes they are pro athletes... and there performing week in, week out against other pro athletes... except our pro athletes have to exert a lot of energy for the haka... the oppositions pro athletes dont...

 

[ranger]

yes they are pro athletes... and there performing week in, week out against other pro athletes... except our pro athletes have to exert a lot of energy for the haka... the oppositions pro athletes dont...

I actually thought you were joking with this point.. Its ridiculous by the way.

 

[markshaw]

haha yes standing stationary moving your arms is going to be a stuggle

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ever seen the warmups they do before a rugby match?
All they need to do is cut that short by 5-10seconds and they've saved the energy for the match

 

[TRF_Cymro]

:lol: Perish the thought Olyy

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Is someone seriously suggesting that performing the Haka is taking too much energy?

 

[Dizzy]

Ever seen the warmups they do before a rugby match?
All they need to do is cut that short by 5-10seconds and they've saved the energy for the match

lmao!!!... nice!!...

 

[Dizzy]

You obviously dont know many Maori do you...

Take it from someone who was brought up, lives and works in a Maori environment.

As long as when they do perform it... they perform it with respect than no one cares.



your limited imagination isn't the reason why they will keep doing it. the relevant stakeholders make money from it. as soon as this stops happening.... dont be surprised if you have to grow up and realize that there a sports team... not a roopu kapa haka.



yes they are pro athletes... and there performing week in, week out against other pro athletes... except our pro athletes have to exert a lot of energy for the haka... the oppositions pro athletes dont...

Well Sam may not but I do.. I, like you, am also Maori and have grown up in a very Maori environment. But I have also grown up in an All Black environment and you may have the farfetched imagination that the All Blacks one day may not be doing the Haka because of certain circumstances[money loss?!?!] It will not only be challenged by the team that they should continue to do the Haka but the entire nation[maybe apart from you] will create a huge uproar because it is an All Black tradition.

But the main part I wanted to touch on was the "exertion of energy when doing the haka" that you speak of.
Seeing as you're from a Maori background and all you must have performed in Kapa Haka so I wanted to ask you how you felt after you did the Haka during your Kapa Haka bracket. Were you so exhausted that you couldn't carry on and do your whakawatea?.
Alot of Maori Perfoming Artists are overweight and wouldn't have anything close to the stamina the All Blacks have, yet they seem to handle the exhaustion fine and carry on with their whakawatea.
Just a thought, with these guys being superhuman fit I don't think fatique would settle in after 30 seconds of Haka performance.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I can completely see what he is saying, we use to do a school haka before games and if done correctly (with passion concentration etc) you do come out of it amped but you have just had every muscle in your body tense for maybe 1 or 2 mins so it can take some effort, no one has suggested they dont have the stamina to carry on with the game or anything even close to that.

i like to think of it as sharpening a knife, you have been "sharpened" (eyed the opposition, got the right mind set etc)...but you have just taken some of the metal away.

 

[markshaw]

It's not even worth debating, All Blacks perform better then any other team in the world weather they do the Haka or not

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

It's not even worth debating, All Blacks perform better then any other team in the world weather they do the Haka or not

Does that mean sunshine or rain?

 

[Sam Owen]

your limited imagination isn't the reason why they will keep doing it. the relevant stakeholders make money from it. as soon as this stops happening.... dont be surprised if you have to grow up and realize that there a sports team... not a roopu kapa haka.



yes they are pro athletes... and there performing week in, week out against other pro athletes... except our pro athletes have to exert a lot of energy for the haka... the oppositions pro athletes dont...

Look Im a proud Samoan no Maori in me whatsoever but I do respect the Maori brothers and everyone else for that matter, equally. The All Blacks doing the haka shows the world that there are Maoris in this place with an English name called New Zealand. Most of my Maori friends love doing the haka when the ABs are doing it, the ones that dont stay quiet but I sense their pride as the ABs are doing the haka.

Hey Im just defending the Maoris haka that is all. I dont know about how the haka makes money but I do know its Maori and what it does for Maori people when the ABs bust it.

Answer me one question shiznit, honestly please....

If we asked all the Maori people in the world (that cared about the ABs) if they should take away the haka away from the All Blacks will the majority of Maori people say 'yes get rid of it', or would they say 'no'?... I dont know Maori but this is hittin our debate at the heart and will conclude it, please answer honestly.

Im guessing from your last paragraph you dont do much sport and theres nothing wrong with that but explaining that to you is a long story and is seems like its branching of to another debate and I cant be stuffed.

P.S:- please no more insults brother, no need to get angry especially when no one is insulting you.

 

[ranger]

I can completely see what he is saying, we use to do a school haka before games and if done correctly (with passion concentration etc) you do come out of it amped but you have just had every muscle in your body tense for maybe 1 or 2 mins so it can take some effort, no one has suggested they dont have the stamina to carry on with the game or anything even close to that.

i like to think of it as sharpening a knife, you have been "sharpened" (eyed the opposition, got the right mind set etc)...but you have just taken some of the metal away.

I think you are doing it wrong. The physical output from a haka is so minimal its not worth talking about..

 

[Dizzy]

I think you are doing it wrong. The physical output from a haka is so minimal its not worth talking about..

it varies with each individual. If it is seriously done properly your legs do tend to feel a bit of a strain. And that's just from sitting in that horse-riding stance. Then you gotta stamp your leg to the rhythm, honestly some people stamp really hard. But other than that, it's not over the top.

 

[ranger]

it varies with each individual. If it is seriously done properly your legs do tend to feel a bit of a strain. And that's just from sitting in that horse-riding stance. Then you gotta stamp your leg to the rhythm, honestly some people stamp really hard. But other than that, it's not over the top.

I was Kaea at my highschool, the stance and stamping? its really not a big deal

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I was Kaea at my highschool, the stance and stamping? its really not a big deal

it was when we did it, im not saying i know everything about the traditional aspect but it was pretty important for us, the whole school one on mass behind the posts when the 1st XV played, and was done with alot of passion and effort.

Im not say we should do it or anything or that it is greatly effecting the AB's performance but when you look at them you would have to say they are putting some effort into it

 

[ranger]

it was when we did it, im not saying i know everything about the traditional aspect but it was pretty important for us, the whole school one on mass behind the posts when the 1st XV played, and was done with alot of passion and effort.

Im not say we should do it or anything or that it is greatly effecting the AB's performance but when you look at them you would have to say they are putting some effort into it

En masse behind the posts you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDaYWw68TXo

 

[Kiwiwomble]

thats impressive and great to see, not sure how it changes anything though