New Zealand Maori v Ireland - Friday 18th (19.35 NZ/8.35 Irish) - Rotorua Int Stad

[MunsterMan]

Bit of a bummer of a time slot. Could easily conflict with those working up here in the NH!

Both teams will head into the game confident, the Maori after a strong display against the NZ Barbarians despite a very poor scrum and Ireland after a courageous display against the All Blacks.

The curse of the #6 jersey strikes again, with John Muldoon after suffering a nasty break and dislocation of his arm in New Plymouth against the All Blacks and with fellow blindside flankers Stephen Ferris, Kevin McLaughlin and Sean O'Brien also sitting out injured, rumour has it 19 year old Ireland U20 captain Rhys Ruddock is to be called up and will fly from the U20 World cup in Rosario, Argentina to Rotorua to join up with the Irish squad.











New Zealand Maori squad:

Forwards: B Afeaki (North Harbour), C Bourke (Bay of Plenty), D Coles (Wellington), J Ellison (Wellington), C Flynn (Canterbury), R Graham (Waikato), J Hoeata (Taranaki), T Latimer (Bay of Plenty), K Lowe (Hawke's Bay), L Messam (Waikato, captain), B Murray (Northland), C Newland (Hawke's Bay), D Ramsay (Wellington), I Ross (Canterbury), H Triggs (Otago).

Backs: S Brett (Canterbury), H Gear (Wellington), S Maitland (Canterbury), L McAlister (North Harbour), W Ripia (Taranaki), R Robinson (Southland), A Smith (Manawatu), C Smylie (North Harbour), D Sweeney (Waikato), A Taylor (Manawatu), J Willison (Waikato).

Last Lineup:

1.Bronson Murray
2.Corey Flynn
3.Clint Newland
4.Isaac Ross
5.Daniel Ramsay
6.Jarrad Hoeata
7.Tanerau Latimer
8.Liam Messam – captain
9.Chris Smylie
10.Stephen Brett
11.Hosea Gear
12.Luke McAlister
13.Jackson Willison
14.Sean Maitland
15.Robbie Robinson

Reserves:
16.Dane Coles
17.Ben Afeaki
18.Romana Graham
19.Hayden Triggs
20.Colin Bourke
21.Aaron Smith
22.Dwayne Sweeney


Ireland Squad:

Backs: Tommy Bowe, Gordon D'Arcy, Gavin Duffy, Johne Murphy,
Rob Kearney, Geordan Murphy, Brian O'Driscoll,
Ronan O'Gara, Tomas O'Leary, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton,
Peter Stringer, Andrew Trimble, Paddy Wallace

Forwards: Tony Buckley, Tom Court, Sean Cronin, Damien Varley,
John Fogarty, John Hayes, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip (LIKELY TO BE SUSPENDED), Chris Henry,
Marcus Horan, Shane Jennings, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll (possibly injured), Ed O'Donoghue, Niall Ronan,Dan Tuohy, David Wallace

With Heaslip likely suspended and Muldoon injured as noted above it is rumoured 19 year old Rhys Ruddock has been called up.

 

[Darwin]

I really don't think Ireland will be brimming with confidence after a loss like that, despite scoring a few tries. To be fair though I'm not familiar with the the Irish psyche....

Anyways onto the game - I'd be surprised if there are any changes to the Maori backline that played the Baba's, it performed strongly as a unit (on attack at least). There should be a few changes in the forwards though. I think Bourke has to start at 8, with Messem moving to 6 (or even Messem at 8, Bourke at 6) - I'm not a big fan of having Bourke and Messem in the same trio as they are similar players but Bourke is in great form so needs to start. I'd probably start Graham and Triggs as the locks - both had strong games off the bench. I wasn't impressed by Ross - he played far too loosely for my liking.

I'm not sure who they will start up front - Murray had a pretty poor game against the baba's but his ability to play both sides of the scrum will probably see him in the 22 (though maybe from the bench). It would be good to have both Afeaki and Newlands starting, but I just not sure whether Afeaki (or Newlands) have any experience at loosehead prop.

 

[ranger]

I really don't think Ireland will be brimming with confidence after a loss like that, despite scoring a few tries. To be fair though I'm not familiar with the the Irish psyche....

Anyways onto the game - I'd be surprised if there are any changes to the Maori backline that played the Baba's, it performed strongly as a unit (on attack at least). There should be a few changes in the forwards though. I think Bourke has to start at 8, with Messem moving to 6 (or even Messem at 8, Bourke at 6) - I'm not a big fan of having Bourke and Messem in the same trio as they are similar players but Bourke is in great form so needs to start. I'd probably start Graham and Triggs as the locks - both had strong games off the bench. I wasn't impressed by Ross - he played far too loosely for my liking.

I'm not sure who they will start up front - Murray had a pretty poor game against the baba's but his ability to play both sides of the scrum will probably see him in the 22 (though maybe from the bench). It would be good to have both Afeaki and Newlands starting, but I just not sure whether Afeaki (or Newlands) have any experience at loosehead prop.

I would be tempted to go with a solid utility player like Sweeny at centre. Willison is handy on attack but hes pretty small and very young, im not too confident about him marking up O'Driscoll (If hes even playing), they really could have done with Tamati Ellison and Tim Bateman. I am a huge Aaron Smith fan, he has a great pass and provides quick no nonsense ball which i felt helped Brett out alot, he is also very agile and quick on his feet, he isn't as good as Smylie at busting through gaps but he has a great ability to dance his way out of trouble when things fall apart, i wanted him in the Canes over Keats to be honest.I also thing they need to get Andre Taylor in there at least on the bench, hes a very talented footballer.

In the forwards, i feel that Messam is a better 6, and im a huge fan of Bourke so that works for me. Triggs is a must have but i think they should persevere with Ross and just tell him to really focus on playing tight. Murray needs to be dropped from the squad completely. He is absolutely useless. Ellison isn't much of a step up in the scrummaging department but it think he needs to be given the start with Afeaki, Newland to come off the bench and bust some heads in the last 30. The fact that Bronson Murray made the team is very irratating, just because he lucked his way into the Super 14 doesn't mean hes any good. I would have gone for Waikatos Hikairo Forbes or Ben May if hes fit?

My team to play Ireland

1)Jacob Ellison
2)Corey Flynn
3)Ben Afeaki
4)Isaac Ross
5)Hayden Triggs
6)Liam Messam
7)Tanerau Latimer
8)Colin Bourke
9)Aaron Smith
10)Stephen Brett
11)Hosea Gear
12)Luke McAllister
13)Jackson Willison/ Dwayne Sweeney
14)Sean Maitland
15)Robbie Robinson

16)Dane Coles (Only because there are no other options, this guy is a clown. Wheres Hika Elliot?)
17)Clint Newland
18)Romana Graham
19)Karl Lowe
20)Chris Smylie
21)Dwayne Sweeny/Jackson Willison
22)Andre Taylor

 

[nickdnz]

There are really on a few players who I want to do well.

Hosea Gear: Cause he should be in the AB's.
Luke McAlister: Man, he is looking so tank lately, anyone else notice? He looks like he's at least 105kgs. He had a good game for Maoris against the Nz Baa baas.
Robbie Robinson: Liked him in NZ U21 squad, and I like him just as much now. He's start for the future, and with a name like Robbie Robinson, it's only a matter of time before he receives higher honours.

 

[ORothlain]

is it safe to say that Rhys Ruddock catches all the breaks?
You know because of the broken arm, etc...
Anyone?
Anyway, looking forward to this. Ireland need to build back some confidence after that last match.
Quite dissapointed with Muldoon's injury, was really proud to see a player from Connacht finally breaking through and standing out. I'm hoping that I can download this match to my PC before hoping on a plane for a bit of much needed holiday. It will make good inflight distraction.

In response to darwin_23, "To be fair though I'm not familiar with the the Irish psyche...."
No one understands the Irish psyche, it's a mystery (said in the voice of Will Ferrell).

 

[Darwin]

I would be tempted to go with a solid utility player like Sweeny at centre. Willison is handy on attack but hes pretty small and very young, im not too confident about him marking up O'Driscoll (If hes even playing), they really could have done with Tamati Ellison and Tim Bateman. I am a huge Aaron Smith fan, he has a great pass and provides quick no nonsense ball which i felt helped Brett out alot, he is also very agile and quick on his feet, he isn't as good as Smylie at busting through gaps but he has a great ability to dance his way out of trouble when things fall apart, i wanted him in the Canes over Keats to be honest.I also thing they need to get Andre Taylor in there at least on the bench, hes a very talented footballer.

In the forwards, i feel that Messam is a better 6, and im a huge fan of Bourke so that works for me. Triggs is a must have but i think they should persevere with Ross and just tell him to really focus on playing tight. Murray needs to be dropped from the squad completely. He is absolutely useless. Ellison isn't much of a step up in the scrummaging department but it think he needs to be given the start with Afeaki, Newland to come off the bench and bust some heads in the last 30. The fact that Bronson Murray made the team is very irratating, just because he lucked his way into the Super 14 doesn't mean hes any good. I would have gone for Waikatos Hikairo Forbes or Ben May if hes fit?

My team to play Ireland

1)Jacob Ellison
2)Corey Flynn
3)Ben Afeaki
4)Isaac Ross
5)Hayden Triggs
6)Liam Messam
7)Tanerau Latimer
8)Colin Bourke
9)Aaron Smith
10)Stephen Brett
11)Hosea Gear
12)Luke McAllister
13)Jackson Willison/ Dwayne Sweeney
14)Sean Maitland
15)Robbie Robinson

16)Dane Coles (Only because there are no other options, this guy is a clown. Wheres Hika Elliot?)
17)Clint Newland
18)Romana Graham
19)Karl Lowe
20)Chris Smylie
21)Dwayne Sweeny/Jackson Willison
22)Andre Taylor

I'm personally not a huge fan of Sweeney. While he's a strong ball runner I think he lacks distribution skills - I think he's a much better wing than a centre. Though I would be slightly worried about Willison marking up against O'Driscoll, I don't think defensively Sweeney is any better. Personally I would (like you) pick Smith over Smylie, but I just think the selectors will stick with the more experienced Smylie. Smylie is a very good ball runner, but his passing game (the primary role of a halfback) is hopeless. I haven't seen a lot of Smith, but he does seem very promising.

The reason I think they should start Graham is that the other three locks in the squad are are 'looser' locks - more dynamic around the field, but perhaps not as effective at maul time or in the scrum. I think having Graham starting would be hugely beneficial for the scrum, and think Ross could be very effective coming off the bench.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Rhys Ruddock? Really? I'd much rather have Dominic Ryan, he'd absolutely murder at least one player during the 80 minutes. An absolute tank of a man. Look:


It was never a yellow card by the way.

In other news, Jamie Heaslip has recieved a 5 week ban so he misses this game and the test against Australia. Very leniant imo. I don't see thepoint of handing out bans set out for a length of time when they're in the middle of the summer. A fifteen game ban would be far more appropriate.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Oh, I would like to add that this is the right selection policy from Kidney. There's no point, with the WC a year and a bit away, picking players you know wont be on the plane. While Ruddock probably won't be either, it'll be good for him to get a bit of international experiance and familiarity with how things work. We'll never have this number of backrow injuries again so we might as well make some use of it.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

This really is the tour from hell. Going off on a tangent................

.............I know people are clamouring for a return to traditional tours and games like Ireland v NZ Maori but they've no place in modern rugby. Too much rugby is being played by top teams and top players. Ireland's injury list is huge (Flannery, Best, O'Connell, Cullen, Ryan, M O'Driscoll, Ferris, Leamy, Muldoon, McLaughlin, O'Brien, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Earls, Horgan) and New Zealand's was also extensive ahead of yesterday's game. The paying public want to see the top players play all the time but there are too many games. The European season needs to be reduced in terms of the quantity of games played (as I've said many times before), Barbarians games do little more than flog tired players and should also be reduced in frequency and Lions tours/traditional tours must be done away with.

This is an extract from an interview with Bernard Jackman who's recently retired from the sport due to failing a medical:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/vincent-hogan/v%20incent-hogan-jackman-experience-at-leinster-and-ireland-coal%20face-can-lift-wexford-2218015.html

Some weeks ago, he read an article about concussion. Based on a study of NFL players in America, it deduced that any recipient of more than five concussions in their career ran a significantly increased risk of brain-related disease later in life.

And that single sentence blew like a cold breeze through his rib-cage.

He guesses that he's had, maybe, 20 concussions in the last three years alone. "By the end, I'd say I could have been knocked out in a pillow fight," he sighs. And that's pretty much what happened him at Twickenham in January.

Michael Cheika said he would start him against London Irish, but that he was looking for only 30 minutes. "Just be really physical, set down a marker."
They were finishing up the warm-up drills with an exercise that involved hitting a tackle bag and off-loading. Jackman took a pass from Jonny Sexton and collided with the bag head-on. And, maybe for a split second, there was blackness.

He got to his feet "unbelievably dizzy," took himself to the back of the group and skipped the next cycle. He said nothing. He never did.

And for 30 minutes, Leinster would lumber by, their hooker out of sorts until, eventually, Cheika replaced him. On the bus coming home that evening, Jackman felt a fraud.
"That was the lowest point for me," he remembers now. "I'd been on anti-biotics for a chest infection that week, but was still a little ****** off that Cheika had been talking about giving me only 30 minutes. I remember thinking, 'f..k that's pretty embarrassing'.

"But, afterwards, I felt I had let the team down. It's funny, I got through most of my career without any concussions. But the last three years, I'd been getting dizzy spells in games, losing balance and getting headaches. It was even happening in training.

"But you always want to play the next game, get the next contract.

"In fairness, players will push the medics as far as we actually can. We'll tell lies. We leave them in an awful awkward position. We'll always say we feel 'perfect'. I mean, you can be concussed, but your head will clear after a couple of minutes. You'll regain a certain amount of balance.

I was getting slagged by the other players last year. 'Jesus, he's out again!' We'd go to a scrum and the lads would practically have to hold me up. When you look back on it ... "He's never been stretchered off and, maybe, that concealed the danger.

Jackman remembers particularly a really heavy concussion in his Connacht days that left him poorly and in bed, with curtains pulled, for maybe a month. His next one was three years ago against Leicester at the RDS. Just arrived at a ruck, hitting an opponent's hip with his head.

The impact drew a tiny trickle of blood and they took him to a room at the back of the stand. He remembers the Leicester doctor exploding through the doors, sensing the kind of subterfuge that would, two years later, bring infamy to Harlequins.

Jackman went back on and played deep into the second-half. He got a stinger. "You'd be kind of running on auto-pilot," he says now.

"You've an idea of where you're supposed to be, so you try and get into the defensive line and hope someone doesn't run at you. I remember running around, trying to tackle fellas with one arm.

"After that, the concussions just seemed to come more frequently. I started to notice I was even getting dizzy spells just from the impact in a scrum. I'd feel sick after a lot of games, pop some tablets and head home straight away.

"My neck would have been very strong, but you can't really strengthen your brain. And that's the worry. The danger. You wouldn't really discuss it with anyone though.

The iRB have a duty to prevent this from happening to other players where possible. Returning traditional tours to the schedule may appease old fogies living in the past but it does nothing to advance the sport, it's merely another meaningless 80 minutes in which players subject themselves to more punishment.

My prediction for Friday's game? A win for the Maori and a couple more injuries for Ireland.

 

[ranger]

I'm personally not a huge fan of Sweeney. While he's a strong ball runner I think he lacks distribution skills - I think he's a much better wing than a centre. Though I would be slightly worried about Willison marking up against O'Driscoll, I don't think defensively Sweeney is any better. Personally I would (like you) pick Smith over Smylie, but I just think the selectors will stick with the more experienced Smylie. Smylie is a very good ball runner, but his passing game (the primary role of a halfback) is hopeless. I haven't seen a lot of Smith, but he does seem very promising.

The reason I think they should start Graham is that the other three locks in the squad are are 'looser' locks - more dynamic around the field, but perhaps not as effective at maul time or in the scrum. I think having Graham starting would be hugely beneficial for the scrum, and think Ross could be very effective coming off the bench.

Im not a fan of Sweeny either to be honest, hes just physically alot bigger than Willison so i figured he would be better defensively. Not the most educated of selections i've ever made but there it is haha.
I toyed with the idea of bringing Taylor into fullback, Robinson into first, Brett to second and McAllister at centre to mark O'Driscoll but then that 9-10-12 channel looks very weak. I have to say this is far from the best Maori side i've seen.

Smith is a real talent, he was one of the real finds of last years ANZC for me, the fact that he missed out on a Super 14 contract is ridiculous. A big reason that Cruden looked so good was because of him. He only picked the best go forward ball to give to him so every opportunity Cruden got was a good one, his passing was always crisp and sharp and his little dabs kept the flankers honest and gave Cruden just a split second more time. Then he gets paired up with the ridiculously overrated Keats and people wonder why he is struggling.

And while i totally agree with you about the loose lock conundrum, i don't think Romana Graham is too much of a step up. He has only recently started playing and has looked all at sea at times, playing a loose game and not even doing a good job at it like Ross does (when he is playing in an otherwise hardworking pack). Isaac Ross knows what he is doing but chooses to play too loose at times, i would back Ross as the more experienced player but just slap him around the ears at training and tell him he has to play a tighter game. If the Maori had any other real options i would go with that. Maybe even Hoeata at lock? he plays a very tight mongrel-like game and is a noted lineout exponent.

 

[admartian]

Is Ranger not of Maori descent? I'd pick him over Willison and Sweeney. Otherwise those are the squads I'd pick.

 

[ranger]

Is Ranger not of Maori descent? I'd pick him over Willison and Sweeney. Otherwise those are the squads I'd pick.

Nah Rarotongan. The official name for the natives of Raro is "Cook Island Maori" which confuses things, but they arent actual Maoris so he doesn't count.
If he was eligible i think he would be near the first name on the team sheet. Hes like a smaller, faster Sonny-Bill

 

[admartian]

Nah Rarotongan. The official name for the natives of Raro is "Cook Island Maori" which confuses things, but they arent actual Maoris so he doesn't count.
If he was eligible i think he would be near the first name on the team sheet. Hes like a smaller, faster Sonny-Bill

A shame. WOuld;ve been good to see him against international oppostion.

I'm really quite excited about our 12/13 situation going forward. I mean, we could potentially have:

- Sonny Bill
- Ranger
- Stanley
- Conrad
- Nonu
- Kahui
- McAlister
- Toeava (though he's more of a 15 but can play 12 & 13)

And even fringe/future players such as Fruean, Bateman. and Crotty.


Kahui at his best, is the Conrad Smith of the future. His defence and tackling, plus his support role. Just hasn't put it on this year.

 

[Feicarsinn]

That's a sickamount of depth for those positions. Fly half must be a bit of a worry for you guys should Dan Carter pick up a knock. It's a shame you can't get Nick Evans back, he's still top class.

It's been confirmed that Ryhs ruddock has been called up btw. Doubt he'll get much gametime but it's a good experiance for a young lad. Only 19 now. If he gets a game it'll mean that Leinster will have 6 capped backrow forwards.
Link: http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2010/0613/ruddockr.html

 

[Darwin]

Im not a fan of Sweeny either to be honest, hes just physically alot bigger than Willison so i figured he would be better defensively. Not the most educated of selections i've ever made but there it is haha.
I toyed with the idea of bringing Taylor into fullback, Robinson into first, Brett to second and McAllister at centre to mark O'Driscoll but then that 9-10-12 channel looks very weak. I have to say this is far from the best Maori side i've seen.

Smith is a real talent, he was one of the real finds of last years ANZC for me, the fact that he missed out on a Super 14 contract is ridiculous. A big reason that Cruden looked so good was because of him. He only picked the best go forward ball to give to him so every opportunity Cruden got was a good one, his passing was always crisp and sharp and his little dabs kept the flankers honest and gave Cruden just a split second more time. Then he gets paired up with the ridiculously overrated Keats and people wonder why he is struggling.

And while i totally agree with you about the loose lock conundrum, i don't think Romana Graham is too much of a step up. He has only recently started playing and has looked all at sea at times, playing a loose game and not even doing a good job at it like Ross does (when he is playing in an otherwise hardworking pack). Isaac Ross knows what he is doing but chooses to play too loose at times, i would back Ross as the more experienced player but just slap him around the ears at training and tell him he has to play a tighter game. If the Maori had any other real options i would go with that. Maybe even Hoeata at lock? he plays a very tight mongrel-like game and is a noted lineout exponent.

Yeah I agree Graham has a long way to go. At the moment Ross is still a far better player - when he decides to actually play like a lock! If, as you suggest, Ross is give a good slap round the ears and told to play tighter he would be a better option (as long as he listens). I was actually going to suggest Hoeata as an lock option - he did play a few games for the chiefs at lock this year, and he does do the basics well, and is very aggressive (though perhaps over aggressive at times!).

 

[admartian]

That's a sickamount of depth for those positions. Fly half must be a bit of a worry for you guys should Dan Carter pick up a knock. It's a shame you can't get Nick Evans back, he's still top class.

It's been confirmed that Ryhs ruddock has been called up btw. Doubt he'll get much gametime but it's a good experiance for a young lad. Only 19 now. If he gets a game it'll mean that Leinster will have 6 capped backrow forwards.
Link: http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2010/0613/ruddockr.html

Yeah, 1st-five, that's an issue.

I think we have great potential there in Cruden, Brett, and Slade. But they still have a ways to go.

And I don't want to go back to the Delany and Donald experiment. *shudders*

Yeah I agree Graham has a long way to go. At the moment Ross is still a far better player - when he decides to actually play like a lock! If, as you suggest, Ross is give a good slap round the ears and told to play tighter he would be a better option (as long as he listens). I was actually going to suggest Hoeata as an lock option - he did play a few games for the chiefs at lock this year, and he does do the basics well, and is very aggressive (though perhaps over aggressive at times!).

I blame the NZRU last year for deciding Ross should 'bulk up'. He lost a lot of momentum and rhythm after that. Hopefully he plays well enough to get called up for the Tri Nations, if not, at least for the end of year tour.

I have high hope for he, Sam Whitelock, and Boric as our future trio of locks.

 

[Darwin]

Are Ireland likely to make many changes for this game apart from the obviously enforced changed in the loose-forwards (replacing Muldoon and Knee-slip)?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Ireland team to face New Zealand Maori on Friday:
Geordan Murphy (captain); Shane Horgan, Gavin Duffy, Paddy Wallace, Johne Murphy; Jonathan Sexton, Eoin Reddan; Marcus Horan, John Fogarty, Tom Court, Ed O'Donoghue, Dan Tuohy, Rhys Ruddock, Niall Ronan, Chris Henry.

Replacements: Sean Cronin, John Hayes, Donncha O'Callaghan, David Wallace, Peter Stringer, Ronan O'Gara, Rob Kearney.

 

[Conal]

court at three odd choice been playing 1 most of the season but was a three last season
duffy again? he offerd little in attack in the barbarians game
ruddock hopefully he isnt out of his depth here
looks to me like a paniic bench that if everything goes wrng we can shipon the experince

 

[durbutter]

Another loss i'm afraid.....