Potential citings for Quarterfinals

[RedruthRFC]

An awful lot of posts that appear to be polarised by personal allegiances here. In general, there appears to be a lack of understanding of the process. For starters, there is no concept of precedent in citing hearings, so comparisons for other incidents are pointless, furthermore, comparing ban lengths without considering the factors that citing hearings consider (provocation, contrition, previous record) is only going to lead to confusion.

I believe that transcripts of the hearings are available from the RWC website. They're a bit lengthy and dry, but I would highly recommend reading transcripts of incidents that you are interested in. Not only will it help you understand why the particular decision was reached, but will improve your understanding of the process in general.

 

[pat mcgroin]

Irish men are notorious homophobes and will meet this sort of touchy feely frenchy kissy finger up the bum stuff with extreme violence and aggression.

 

[MunsterMan]

just make a new rule precising the sanction depends on the nationality

I agree, damn Australians getting away with murder here!

 

[RedruthRFC]

Sob should take at least 4 weeks, if not, just make a new rule precising the sanction depends on the nationality

I would certainly advocate some sort of sanction on this forum for incessant, unfounded claims of bias.

What about O'Brian's punch makes you think that it was closer to a mid-range offence, not a low end one? Given that there was a degree of provocation, his previous record is good and he will no doubt have shown contrition. All in all, it's a LE ban (2 weeks) reduced to one week for previous record and good conduct for me.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

An awful lot of posts that appear to be polarised by personal allegiances here. In general, there appears to be a lack of understanding of the process. For starters, there is no concept of precedent in citing hearings, so comparisons for other incidents are pointless, furthermore, comparing ban lengths without considering the factors that citing hearings consider (provocation, contrition, previous record) is only going to lead to confusion.

I believe that transcripts of the hearings are available from the RWC website. They're a bit lengthy and dry, but I would highly recommend reading transcripts of incidents that you are interested in. Not only will it help you understand why the particular decision was reached, but will improve your understanding of the process in general.

Agreed. Very enlightening reads.

Here is Galarza's one

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/97598

and

http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazon...ecision_Mariano_Galarza_(Argentina)_FINAL.pdf

 

[saulan]

I would certainly advocate some sort of sanction on this forum for incessant, unfounded claims of bias.

What about O'Brian's punch makes you think that it was closer to a mid-range offence, not a low end one? Given that there was a degree of provocation, his previous record is good and he will no doubt have shown contrition. All in all, it's a LE ban (2 weeks) reduced to one week for previous record and good conduct for me.

I will answer this since I also think it will be 4-5 weeks and I have no real bias or horse to ride in this argument (in fact, I would actually prefer it if this wasn't happening since I have him in my World Cup fantasy team).

Why I think it is a mid range offence is because it was a full on swing with a closed fist. Additionally, there was very limited provocation by Pape, yes he did grab him, but he didn't attempt to break the grip in any other way but to swing the punch, which I think sets a bad precedent for the game of rugby. It was a significant over reaction to Pape's grab. I think his disciplinary record may reduce the suspension by one week. Hence I expect 5 weeks reduced to 4.

Why do you think it is low entry?

 

[RedruthRFC]

Thanks for the reply @saulan. To me, it doesn't look like a "full on swing", there's a fair bit of arm movement but he doesn't put himself behind it. Saying that, looking at the footage again, Pape appears to be looking away at the time (something I hadn't picked up on before), so maybe this should be higher up the low end of the scale (or lower down mid range). Another factor that I don't agree with, but is taken into account and is in O'Brian's favour is the fact that Pape wasn't injured. The only prediction I'd make with a great deal of confidence is that whatever ban is given out will be reduced.

 

[MunsterMan]

Just to clarify, the general consensus in Ireland is that O'Brien was very silly. I expect him to get a ban, the hope is that he will plead guilty and get a 2 week ban, reduced to 1 because of his clean record. Anyone who thinks he is innocent is deluded.

 

[saulan]

Thanks for the reply @saulan. To me, it doesn't look like a "full on swing", there's a fair bit of arm movement but he doesn't put himself behind it. Saying that, looking at the footage again, Pape appears to be looking away at the time (something I hadn't picked up on before), so maybe this should be higher up the low end of the scale (or lower down mid range). Another factor that I don't agree with, but is taken into account and is in O'Brian's favour is the fact that Pape wasn't injured. The only prediction I'd make with a great deal of confidence is that whatever ban is given out will be reduced.

Fair enough, it wasn't a proper arm raised full swing, but it was a full arm and shoulder rotation swing with a fist into his gut. That is definitely going to have a lot of force coming into it, especially from a big guy like him and especially for Pape who wouldn't have been expecting it. Some say he milked it, but I honestly believe he got the wind knocked out of him because there was definitely no preparation for the punch. True, he wasn't injured, which is really a big positive, but someone mentioned earlier that he left the field for four minutes after the punch? I didn't see it so I am not going to state that as fact until it has been confirmed.

Either way though, we should hear the outcome quite soon.

 

[Tarasque]

For those who talk about 1 week ban, I would like to remind everybody why the french are thinking these bans have always been heavier for their players : Pape had a 10 weeks ban for what he has done to Heaslip, just as a reminder.

I'm ready to believe that Pape behaviour was maybe a bit nastier (though he has insisted after that he has not made it on purpose with french media..I do not really believe it but still...) because coming in the back of heaslip... but 1 to 10 weeks ????

It is like we know already that the sanction will be softer for an irish man, it is already a given, we are used to it as frenchies.

Some days ago a French sport caster an ex rugby player (i don't remember his name) has said "keep in mind the Irish are anglo Saxon" ^^
Even if he is wrong this is all about the same story what is true for the French is never true for anyone from the above islands..

 

[RedruthRFC]

I totally agree about the allegations of "milking it" - that's a horrible place to take a punch if you're not expecting it.

As you say, we'll be put out of our misery soon!

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Some days ago a French sport caster an ex rugby player (i don't remember his name) has said "keep in mind the Irish are anglo Saxon" ^^
Even if he is wrong this is all about the same story what is true for the French is never true for anyone from the above islands..

As above, you're trying to compare apples (a knee to a man he knew couldn't defend himself which broke three bones, perpetrated by someone with a poor disciplinary record) and oranges (a punch to a man in the loose which didn't stop him playing on, perpetrated by someone with a good disciplinary record).

Is the persecution complex a nationwide thing?

 

[barthelemy]

Is the persecution complex a nationwide thing?

No, you should ask yourself the question why the frenchies are always whinning about these decisions and some refereees...But difficult I guess as a Brit Frenchies do not have persecution complex, they just know since quite long time they are treated unfairly by their brit counterpart. It tends to get better nowadays but this feeling of "persecution" does not come from nowhere.

 

[RedruthRFC]

No, you should ask yourself the question why the frenchies are always whinning about these decisions and some refereees

As above, I concluded it is a result of a lack of understanding of the laws / rules, combined with a persecution complex. Why else would you keep steadfastly ignoring any of the points relating to laws / guidelines while constantly bemoaning that the world (yes, the organising committee are World Rugby) is out to get you backed up by no evidence what so ever.

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The hearing will take place at a time to be confirmed on the afternoon of Tuesday, 13 October, at the offices of RWC 2015 official law firm Clifford Chance in London. The case will be heard by independent Judicial Officer Jean-Noel Couraud (France).

It's well known that these continental types have a vendetta against the Irish, no doubt O'Brian can expect the book thrown at him!

 

[barthelemy]

As above, I concluded it is a result of a lack of understanding of the laws / rules, combined with a persecution complex. Why else would you keep steadfastly ignoring any of the points relating to laws / guidelines while constantly bemoaning that the world (yes, the organising committee are World Rugby) is out to get you backed up by no evidence what so ever.

You mean the same persecution complex that French are developing when they see no replays at all of the SOB Punch after Pape being on the ground for several minutes on ITV (it would have meant a Red Card I guess) but 1000 replays of poor paulie and poor jonnie being injured ???

It's well known that these continental types have a vendetta against the Irish, no doubt O'Brian can expect the book thrown at him!

Hooo if there is a big ban, I feel that this poor french officer will be stoned to death by the Irish

 

[Toko_11]

If a Georgian or a Romanian player did that.... or even an islander, we'd be looking at a month long suspension.

 

[Jockstap]

Irish men are notorious homophobes and will meet this sort of touchy feely frenchy kissy finger up the bum stuff with extreme violence and aggression.

Ireland was the first country to approve gay marriage by popular vote, can't be that homophobic.

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If a Georgian or a Romanian player did that.... or even an islander, we'd be looking at a month long suspension.

It's all about money world rugby know that the Irish will fill stadiums and they want a NH team in the semis. So they'll do what they can to facilitate that.

 

[TW27BA]

For those who talk about 1 week ban, I would like to remind everybody why the french are thinking these bans have always been heavier for their players : Pape had a 10 weeks ban for what he has done to Heaslip, just as a reminder.

I'm ready to believe that Pape behaviour was maybe a bit nastier (though he has insisted after that he has not made it on purpose with french media..I do not really believe it but still...) because coming in the back of heaslip... but 1 to 10 weeks ????

It is like we know already that the sanction will be softer for an irish man, it is already a given, we are used to it as frenchies.

Are you Dan Biggar in disguise?
You've spent the whole thread whining that SOB needs to be put to death for a punch and defended Pape for what could have been a life changing injury.
He'll get a ban, so stop crying and start worrying how you are going to beat NZ.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Sean O'Brien should be banned from the rest of the World Cup, and the 6 nations. Throwing a punch is just totally unacceptable.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Irish men are notorious homophobes and will meet this sort of touchy feely frenchy kissy finger up the bum stuff with extreme violence and aggression.

Tell that to Graham Norton.

 

[MunsterMan]

Tell that to Graham Norton.

Sure didn't he have to move abroad

Yeah, Ireland is not particularly homophobic, as the gay marriage referendum showed