Queen Elizabeth II

[Welsh Exile]

say what you want about the electoral college being "disenfranchising" and "undemocratic" it sure as hell makes election night and the period leading up the actual casting of electoral votes exciting as hell.

You Americans certainly know how to put on a show. I'll give you that.

 

[McTallshort]

It's more representative. They don't have an unelected Head of State.

So that makes up for the massive imbalance in their society I suppose

 

[Welsh Exile]

So that makes up for the massive imbalance in their society I suppose

Obviously not. You seem to keep thinking that republicans are saying getting rid of the monarchy would get rid of all our problems. It wouldn't and it would be silly to say so.

America's problems, like ours, is steeped in their own history and also a million other factors that need addressing. But as I said, saying **** you to the king was a good start. At the time what America was doing was revolutionary. As was France. Does that mean it's perfect or hasn't led to inequality, of course not but it's a good first step.

It's the 21st century mate, we should've moved past this bollix, most of the western world has but we seem to want to hang onto our oppressive past, people are proud of it no less. It's what makes us great isn't it. Look at the cucked people fawning over this and constantly referencing history with no thought to the people outside of the country that don't feel like that.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Charles talks about slimming down the monarchy. He can't start with getting rid of the symbol of oppression of my own people by getting rid of the Prince of Wales ***le. That would be a good start. But these people may appear to be moving with the times but they are masters of conserving power, wealth and prestige.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's more representative. They don't have an unelected Head of State.

I don't think this is the case at all. With Trump they had a leader chosen by a minority of voters. Not even a plurality, an actual minority. Republicans have not beaten Democrats in the popular vote in 2 decades (excluding Bush's second term) and yet have stacked the supreme court and been in power for half the time with the ability to block legislation for a bit more. The country is now overturning Roe Vs Wade that approximately 75% of the country support in favour of an extremely vocal and aggressive minority. Those at the top of politics represent an even more select elite than in the UK. Wealth inequality is even worse than ours and 3rd parties have even less chance of getting any sort of power than they do here, and that's saying something. The spectrum of accepted political views is heavily shifted to the right and much narrower than here with anyone even holding what we would deem centrist views being branded a socialist or Commie and being virtually unelectable. They have not had a grand total of 1 president who was not a white male and Atheists have no representation at all at the federal level, with very reduced representation at lower levels.

The US has a system that in theory should be more representative but in reality it really isn't.

 

[die_mole]

the senate and the president are objectively more democratic than the monarch but if you are going to institute a new system you should aim to do better.

as for wealth inequality; if you want to move up in America you should just grab yourself a graduate or professional degree from one of our fine private institution that will only run you $500,000 in total. who isn't able to do that?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don't think this is the case at all. With Trump they had a leader chosen by a minority of voters. Not even a plurality, an actual minority. Republicans have not beaten Democrats in the popular vote in 2 decades (excluding Bush's second term) and yet have stacked the supreme court and been in power for half the time with the ability to block legislation for a bit more. The country is now overturning Roe Vs Wade that approximately 75% of the country support in favour of an extremely vocal and aggressive minority. Those at the top of politics represent an even more select elite than in the UK. Wealth inequality is even worse than ours and 3rd parties have even less chance of getting any sort of power than they do here, and that's saying something. The spectrum of accepted political views is heavily shifted to the right and much narrower than here with anyone even holding what we would deem centrist views being branded a socialist or Commie and being virtually unelectable. They have not had a grand total of 1 president who was not a white male and Atheists have no representation at all at the federal level, with very reduced representation at lower levels.

The US has a system that in theory should be more representative but in reality it really isn't.

See my post about the electoral college. I'd get rid. Just as I'd get rid of FPTP once I'd got rid of the monarchy.

 

[General Melchett]

Today's bank holiday has cost the UK economy £1.36bn. No wonder people keep saying and singing God save the King because if he snuffs it anytime soon the taxpayer is facing another massive hit which isn't great during a cost of living crisis. Of course I'm not assigning any blame or responsibility to the late Queen given her 70 year reign but when Charles pops his clogs I'd be in favour of scrapping one of the following May day holidays if they are to make his state funeral a bank holiday.

 

[McTallshort]

Obviously not. You seem to keep thinking that republicans are saying getting rid of the monarchy would get rid of all our problems. It wouldn't and it would be silly to say so.

America's problems, like ours, is steeped in their own history and also a million other factors that need addressing. But as I said, saying **** you to the king was a good start. At the time what America was doing was revolutionary. As was France. Does that mean it's perfect or hasn't led to inequality, of course not but it's a good first step.

It's the 21st century mate, we should've moved past this bollix, most of the western world has but we seem to want to hang onto our oppressive past, people are proud of it no less. It's what makes us great isn't it. Look at the cucked people fawning over this and constantly referencing history with no thought to the people outside of the country that don't feel like that.

You obviously have a massive axe to grind with the monarchy which is fine as is its a free country but your arguments for a republic based on how great America is isn't particularly convincing. America got rid of a king but kept slavery, they had segregation laws as late as the 60s, they very much have their own elite class who are far more wealthy and powerful than our own aristocracy, they had an attempted coup in January and if getting rid of the Monarchy means having Trump or Bojo as head of state then fine I will live in past.

Also if America hadn't told the king to **** off they might have a society like Canada now. You know: democratic, liberal, universal healthcare sensible gun laws...bit like the UK

 

[Welsh Exile]

You obviously have a massive axe to grind with the monarchy which is fine as is its a free country but your arguments for a republic based on how great America is isn't particularly convincing. America got rid of a king but kept slavery, they had segregation laws as late as the 60s, they very much have their own elite class who are far more wealthy and powerful than our own aristocracy, they had an attempted coup in January and if getting rid of the Monarchy means having Trump or Bojo as head of state then fine I will live in past.

Also if America hadn't told the king to **** off they might have a society like Canada now. You know: democratic, liberal, universal healthcare sensible gun laws...bit like the UK

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've been saying. I don't know if your being deliberately obtuse or just don't want to engage with the conversation. If you change your mind then I'm free to discuss any retorts you have to points I've actually made but I have no interest in knocking down strawmen you've made.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

There's also the issue of executive power. I am not proposing the UK head of state being like POTUS, as they have a separation of powers structure. And let's face it POTUS wields enormous power but to checked by Congress.

My proposal would be based on Ireland's as they also have a Parliamentary democracy; just a republican one. Their President is also largely ceremonial with very limited constitutional power. This would be the least major overhaul of our system.

Wider questions of reforming parliament can conflate the issue and deserve to be in the political thread for debate.

 

[Welsh Exile]

 

[Reiser99]

Just my pov but abolishing the monarchy on it's own would do very little to change our society. It is part of the problem, but not the only one. If we want to make society fairer then we need almost a complete overhaul of our democratic system.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Just my pov but abolishing the monarchy on it's own would do very little to change our society. It is part of the problem, but not the only one. If we want to make society fairer then we need almost a complete overhaul of our democratic system.

But it's one of the reasons why we're happy to accept the status quo. It would not on its own make society fairer but more what it would represent.

But It's highly unlikely to happen here. Events in the past week and today have shown how much the monarchy are ingrained in the British culture and identity.

I would go as far to say at least 75% are pro monarchy and the Charles ascension and all the "mourning" plus Media campaign to force it onto the rest just means more apathy or anti-monarchy, but not nearly enough to force any change.

There's no appetite to get rid of it in England at least. Scotland, Wales and NI (the republican/Catholic population) are another matter. Just a reminder perhaps of how fragile the UK is.

More likely that other Commonwealth countries can and will in due course choose to secede and choose their own head of state like Australia.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Just my pov but abolishing the monarchy on it's own would do very little to change our society. It is part of the problem, but not the only one. If we want to make society fairer then we need almost a complete overhaul of our democratic system.

Indeed. But one problem at a time.

As @Bada-Bing! said, though, never happening over here. Far to cucked for it to be a realistic possibility. I understand it though, our peasant brains have been mind ****** too hard for too long. It's too ingrained.

I'd be more embarrassed if I was a Kiwi or Ozzie, though. Imagine having a foreigner as your head of state out of choice.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

To be honest I don't find the way it has been covered to be particularly dignified. Wall to wall coverage, non-stop praising and sycophantic drooling over her legacy. It's the case where sometimes a bit of moderation would be better than going over the top. As it is we fully embraced national hysteria and people quite frankly concocting completely fictitious realities to paint her as something extraordinary. She reigned a long time and carried herself well but what did she actually do of note?

Really wish it would be toned down, kinda tired of being absolutely bombarded from all directions with Queen this and royals that. She's basically being praised for being born into the right family and not being a complete ***.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

wow...this is not really what i had in mind for this thread...definitely all seems must more suited to the political thread, the people have definitely spoken though

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

wow...this is not really what i had in mind for this thread...definitely all seems must more suited to the political thread, the people have definitely spoken though

"The people" here don't represent anything close to the national polling data, which is very interesting.

Vocal minority ig

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Watched the funeral up to QEII heading off in the hearse

some may struggle to understand why...but based on the numbers (i heard over a million) who made the journey to be there, and thousands more from in parks around the country or millions watching from home, its hard to argue it wasn't a momentous event

 

[Welsh Exile]

"The people" here don't represent anything close to the national polling data, which is very interesting.

Vocal minority ig

This is 100% true but then I'd worry what the majority of people in this country would like to bring back given half a chance. Death penalty? more than likely, slavery? Maybe, empire? almost certainly. Makes you proud doesn't it. English exceptionalism at its finest.