[RWC2023] England vs Argentina (09/09/2023)

[Welsh Exile]

Bookies have both at even money. I think that's fair. People giving England little chance are being to down on themselves and bigging up Argentina to much.

 

[Booboobang]

Nick Evans on the BBC didn't sound convinced it's a good idea. Smith will be targeted, and against Argentina it will possibility be a kick heavy game.

I think he explained it as an issue with not having two play makers given the dropping of Slade, Daly on the wing and likelihood of Borthwick planning a Ford/Farrell 10/12 axis.

He didnt say the concept was bad, simply that he hasnt done it before and is a complete unknown under the high ball so could be targeted. Went as far as thanking england for trying it so quins can gauge it for next season with smith and evans if I remember correctly.

Love it when england are a proving ground for clubs not the other way around.

 

[Booboobang]

Me too.

I do think there is a chance that Argentina come in over-confident. If England can raise their game, we might not be as sh*t as they/we think.

It is the hope that kills you. I am personally going to go in with the mentality we are going to get hosed and if we win I will be delighted.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Lads and lasses- any recommendations for an England rugby top without me breaking the bank?

I'd ordered a shirt online but delivery issues have meant it doesn't arrive before I travel.

Anyone recommend a store I could head to that may stock without breaking the bank? I do quite like our RWC one but im not paying £80 to then be knocked out the tournament in 9 days time

I'd stump up if we were playing better!

Anything with a Nike or Canterbury logo…..

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Journos got it right,
About as good as you could ask for really - not expecting much, but happy to see Tom back

 

[Saintjay]

He didnt say the concept was bad, simply that he hasnt done it before and is a complete unknown under the high ball so could be targeted. Went as far as thanking england for trying it so quins can gauge it for next season with smith and evans if I remember correctly.

Love it when england are a proving ground for clubs not the other way around.

Nobody in there right mind would play an untested, player out of position at a world cup especially at 15. We don't have any real tried and tested combinations as it is.

The message it sends out to Freddie Steward who is still young. Plus the players who can cover 15 is appalling. Eddie has some mad ideas but Smith at 15 smacks of desperation. That he clearly picked the wrong tactics and squad. He's now trying something new but still has the wrong players.

The likes of Steward, Freeman etc would eat Smith alive if he was the opposition full back at club level.

How you play at your club gets you into the England team. Players shouldn't be changing there point of difference to make the squad. (partly why Mercer was hooked). England now seem all square pegs round holes.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Journos got it right,
About as good as you could ask for really - not expecting much, but happy to see Tom back

Honestly from the players available it's hard to really argue with any of that. Which is depressing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Honestly from the players available it's hard to really argue with any of that. Which is depressing.

The only raised eyebrow from me is Dan > Walker (and Cole > Stuart, but maybe they don't want Cole on when the game breaks up later on?)
Maybe Walker isn't 100% after being out so long?

 

[TopTen2003]

Journos got it right,
About as good as you could ask for really - not expecting much, but happy to see Tom back

Feel a bit for Jack Willis to not make the 23 but aside from that, we are where we are. The players I want are at home so not too disappointed with this. Martin off the bench i am intrigued by, he could well be an impact weapon for us.

Really do wish Dan Cole well and hope he really has a top World Cup- we've all written him off and we will need some players to flip narratives on heads to do anything this year.

I'd like to hope that given Marchant and Daly both can play wing that perhaps we see Elliot play make/arrive at second receiver from time to time to ask a few more questions of the opposition.

Anyway, teams are out, should be a great opening battle and roll on the tournament- some superb rugby to watch in the coming weeks!

 

[Grizwald]

Jack Willis has fell victim to playing in a poor team, but also failed to stand out when he did play in the warm ups, Ben Earl managed to be rolled I'm glitter by the English turd at least enough to put up his hand. I'd really just put Lawes back in at lock as no one else including Itoje has pulled up any trees.

Alex Mitchell starting is actually pleasing but isn't it odd how May and he whom were out of the squad are now starting?

 

[Booboobang]

Nobody in there right mind would play an untested, player out of position at a world cup especially at 15. We don't have any real tried and tested combinations as it is.

The message it sends out to Freddie Steward who is still young. Plus the players who can cover 15 is appalling. Eddie has some mad ideas but Smith at 15 smacks of desperation. That he clearly picked the wrong tactics and squad. He's now trying something new but still has the wrong players.

The likes of Steward, Freeman etc would eat Smith alive if he was the opposition full back at club level.

How you play at your club gets you into the England team. Players shouldn't be changing there point of difference to make the squad. (partly why Mercer was hooked). England now seem all square pegs round holes.

Oh no I agree, it comes back to squad selection and lack of acounting for the selected 15's limitations.

I have no issue trying smith at fullback in theory, he has skills that could thrive there, but it should be at club level first and only then if he does well should it be at international level, I wasnt saying I literally love it, it was sarcastic. It is so backwards and just a show of a poor coach, and I think that is what evans was suggesting with the cheers for someone else trying it for him.

Dont have to talk to me about square pegs in round holes, I have been whinging on the forum for months about tailoring plans to player skillsets and how it is steves biggest failure.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Journos got it right,
About as good as you could ask for really - not expecting much, but happy to see Tom back

Who'd have guessed at that 3 weeks ago, let alone 6 months back?

Montoya to be replaced by Creevy. Suspect George may be going the full 80……

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Jack Willis has fell victim to playing in a poor team, but also failed to stand out when he did play in the warm ups, Ben Earl managed to be rolled I'm glitter by the English turd at least enough to put up his hand. I'd really just put Lawes back in at lock as no one else including Itoje has pulled up any trees.

Alex Mitchell starting is actually pleasing but isn't it odd how May and he whom were out of the squad are now starting?

Alex Mitchell starting shows that Borthwick has no clear plan and doesn't have a clue what he is doing.

 

[TopTen2003]

Anyone know if we're in home or away kit on Sat?

 

[Booboobang]

Alex Mitchell starting shows that Borthwick has no clear plan and doesn't have a clue what he is doing.

Yeah, I have no idea how we want to play tbh. Originally I thought it was tigers style struggle ball, with quins coming on late when the game is looser. Maybe steve has realised his original plan was **** and is trying to make it work, but then thats a mess of his own making.

 

[Saintjay]

If I'd have said after the 2019 World Cup, Dan Cole would be the starting prop in 2023. I'd have been laughed at by you bunch, now i just feel like repeatedly punching myself in the balls to make myself feel better.

 

[Booboobang]

Tbf to dan cole, he has been one of the better domestic props past couple of years. Most other positions players being left out for past its infuriates me, but it really highlights a flaw in the english game in developing props. When I go back and think, who would I pick in the props that isnt there? Well I like to pick players on form and that can offer at least one thing to a high level, only two really stand out there Simon McIntyre and val rapava ruskin. Both guys in their 30's without test match experience.

So I can sort of see where Coles comes in, not horrible form, solid in the scrum and has been there at international level. Probably the one positions I will put my hands up and say the player pool is thin, especially considering our two not ancient guys in sinckler and genge have hardly been amazing at domestic level either, and our other one in stuart has been shaky at international level.

Really think we need more A tours to get domestic props some games at international level to build any depth, see how they go against other oposition.

EDIT: Forgot about obano and schonert, another two excelent at domestic level but relativley untested at high levels or coming of injuries.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Has Stuart

Tbf to dan cole, he has been one of the better domestic props past couple of years. Most other positions players being left out for past its infuriates me, but it really highlights a flaw in the english game in developing props. When I go back and think, who would I pick in the props that isnt there? Well I like to pick players on form and that can offer at least one thing to a high level, only two really stand out there Simon McIntyre and val rapava ruskin. Both guys in their 30's without test match experience.

So I can sort of see where Coles comes in, not horrible form, solid in the scrum and has been there at international level. Probably the one positions I will put my hands up and say the player pool is thin, especially considering our two not ancient guys in sinckler and genge have hardly been amazing at domestic level either, and our other one in stuart has been shaky at international level.

Really think we need more A tours to get domestic props some games at international level to build any depth, see how they go against other oposition.

EDIT: Forgot about obano and schonert, another two excelent at domestic level but relativley untested at high levels or coming of injuries.

Has Stuart been shaky at international level? Whenever I have seen him I have been impressed. He never goes backwards in the scrum and he has a knack of scoring tries as well.

 

[AlRums]

Lads and lasses- any recommendations for an England rugby top without me breaking the bank?

I'd ordered a shirt online but delivery issues have meant it doesn't arrive before I travel.

Anyone recommend a store I could head to that may stock without breaking the bank? I do quite like our RWC one but im not paying £80 to then be knocked out the tournament in 9 days time

I'd stump up if we were playing better!

Cheap white t-shirt and a Sharpie marker pen? Make sure you spell it ingerlund