Shoe-Ins

[cyRil]

I'm 100% Ospreys, but I'd have Tovey in the squad over Biggar. The media and other people keep telling me how great Biggar is, and he can be really good, but there's something about him that doesn't seem to fit with me.

 

[lucky number 7]

For ireland, heaslip , ferris , sexton fast becoming one , tommy bowe

David wallace has been for years but is approaching the twilight of his interational career methinks add bod to that also ..all that said i thought bod was past it in 2007 but by god he showed me..

 

[cyRil]

He showed all of us.

 

[Thingimubob]

Disagree that Shane Williams isnt Seriously who else would be picked ahead of Shane Williams? He was our best player last season imo, one of our main attacking threats, sometimes our only one...

 

[William18]

Just to update my shoe-ins

Scotland - Ross Ford, Euan Murray (if the match isn't on Sunday), John Barclay, Kelly Brown, John Beattie

Wales - Lee Byrne, Adam Jones, Alun-Wyn Jones, Gethin Jenkins, James Hook, Gavin Henson (if you are cyRil), Jamie Roberts

Ireland - Brian O'Driscoll, Tommy Bowe, Jamie Heaslip

England - Chris Aston, Ben Foden, Tom Croft, Ben Youngs, Courtney Lawes

France - Yannick Jauzion, Thierry Dusautoir, Dimitri Szarzewski

New Zealand - Dan Carter, Ma'a Nonu, Richie McCaw, Brad Thorn, Tony Woodcock, Cory Jane, Kieran Read, Mils Muliaina (I would say Conrad Smith as well)

Australia - Will Genia, Rocky Elsom, David Pocock, Quade Cooper, Matt Giteau, Benn Robinson, Ben Alexander (When fit)

South Africa - Victor Matfield, Pierre Spies, Morne Steyn, Bryan Habana (Unfortunately), Jaque Fourie, John Smit

Italy - Sergio Parisse, Mirco Bergamasco, Mauro Bergamasco, Martin Castrogiovanni, Leonardo Ghiraldini, Alessandro Zanni

I can't comment on most of the countries but I think you are naming too many players. If you are only naming those who are irreplaceable then players like Muliaina, Jane, Thorn and Smith would not be in there. For instance, while I think Muliaina should be in the team and while he is a shoe in, if he was to get injured we could put in either Dagg or Jane who are handy replacements. There are also plenty of wingers and centres in New Zealand that we could afford to lose someone like Jane or Smith without the team falling apart. It's a big difference from a player like Carter who, if injured, would have to be replaced by Cruden or Donald. If McCaw got injured names like Scott Waldrom or Latimer would have to step in to fill the gap.

It's good you put in Smit in there, he is by far their most influential player. When he and Matfield goes well, South Africa also goes well. Everyone saw how poor South Africa were when Smit went off in the first Lions test last year. He had to be brought back on quickly.

 

[nickdnz]

In terms of players who couldn't be replaced for NZ, I'd say Carter, McCaw, Smith and to an extent Nonu. Cory Jane is probably another one, as he is probably the best winger and fullback in the country. Yes there are other centres, but none which are ready to be a first choice centre. Toeava and Ranger are not proven at international level, and I'd argue Ranger is no more established in Centre as Cruden or Donald is. So Conrad Smith is a must.

 

[Darwin]

In terms of players who couldn't be replaced for NZ, I'd say Carter, McCaw, Smith and to an extent Nonu. Cory Jane is probably another one, as he is probably the best winger and fullback in the country. Yes there are other centres, but none which are ready to be a first choice centre. Toeava and Ranger are not proven at international level, and I'd argue Ranger is no more established in Centre as Cruden or Donald is. So Conrad Smith is a must.

I agree 100% with all of that. The way Read is playing at the moment, you could almost add him to the list (maybe not quite yet though) - he's been superb this season. I would be pretty nervous going into a test match with either Kaino, Vito (who are both superb at 6, but struggle at 8), or Messem (who is great in open play, but is not very accurate) starting at 8.

 

[Seaton]

Surely Fourie du Preez for SA? Surely?

 

[Charles]

For France:

Servat, Mas
Dusautoir, Harinordoquy
Parra
Jauzion

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I would start Tovey against Fiji in the autumn. If he plays well, I wouldn't mind him playing against the Boks or Wallabies. I missed the second test in NZ, but heard Biggar looked far mroe creative than Steveo normally does, even if he wasn't tackling. After the SA game and the first against NZ, people where calling for Jones to be dropped.

And I can still see Hook playing at 10 for Wales again.

If you took out the shoe-ins suggested, the Welsh side would look like this:

Stoddart; Halfpenny, Bishop, J Davies, Prydie; Biggar, R Rees; P James, M Rees, Mitchell, B Davies, Charteris, J Thomas, M Williams, R Jones.

I would have, perosnally, picked Harries or Brew over Prydie, Tovey over Biggar and Lydiate over JT, but we all know who Gatland would select. That team may trouble Italy or the USA, but not Scotland even.

 

[cyRil]

I would start Tovey against Fiji in the autumn. If he plays well, I wouldn't mind him playing against the Boks or Wallabies. I missed the second test in NZ, but heard Biggar looked far mroe creative than Steveo normally does, even if he wasn't tackling. After the SA game and the first against NZ, people where calling for Jones to be dropped.

And I can still see Hook playing at 10 for Wales again.

Who are these people??
And yes, I can also see Hook playing for Wales at fly-half again. Probably because Steve Jones will be retiring and the other 10s won't have progressed enough.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Who are these people??
And yes, I can also see Hook playing for Wales at fly-half again. Probably because Steve Jones will be retiring and the other 10s won't have progressed enough.

...Erm...

*Awkard glances*

...606.

*Runs*

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I would start Tovey against Fiji in the autumn. If he plays well, I wouldn't mind him playing against the Boks or Wallabies. I missed the second test in NZ, but heard Biggar looked far mroe creative than Steveo normally does, even if he wasn't tackling. After the SA game and the first against NZ, people where calling for Jones to be dropped.

Are you for real ... we never looked to attack before Jones was brought on. I suggest you go and take a look and go and find the game tape. Biggar was terrible, even read the thread... might help. I'm quite shocked by what I have just read. It's smacks me with someone who obviously has little understanding of how poor Biggar has been recently and Jones may not be flashy but he does the basics well.

...Erm...

*Awkard glances*

...606.

*Runs*

Jesus I hate 606 full of WUM's and people who have no idea on rugby.

 

[ConradCarter]

England-
Tom Croft, Ben Foden, and The skippy(Lewis Moody)

Wales-
Lee Byrne, Stephen Jones and Jamie Roberts

Ireland-
Rob Kearney, Brian O'Driscoll, Tommy Bowe, and David Wallace.

Scotland-
None.

France-
Don't really pay that much attention to the French.

Italy-
See above

New Zealand-
Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Ma'a Nonu, Conrad Smith, Mils Muliana, and Kevin Mealamu

South Africa-
FDP, Bryan Habana, Shalk Burger, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, and maybe John Smit

Austrailia-

I'd say Giteau but he's had a fairly average time of it of late. Aussies are in a lil bit of **** just before a World Cup.

Argentina-
Felipe Contepome.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Are you for real ... we never looked to attack before Jones was brought on. I suggest you go and take a look and go and find the game tape. Biggar was terrible, even read the thread... might help. I'm quite shocked by what I have just read. It's smacks me with someone who obviously has little understanding of how poor Biggar has been recently and Jones may not be flashy but he does the basics well.

I can only say what I was told by my Dad. I've seen the five-minute highlights on RugbyDump, and that's not really enough to tell how someone did. Sorry, I wasn't properly informed before posting. I'll be sure to reserve judgement 'till I've seen everything in the future.

I was sick and tired of Biggar all season untill the victory against Munster towards the end, at which point he started to look like Stephen at his best, craftily closing out games and doing all the basics well. However, as Stephen is slowing down, Biggar does seem more attacking-minded, simply because he's younger. I feel Tovey should be playing the smaller games, and gradually getting big games, as he is obviously more talented than Biggar, and has looked it even behind a weak pack. However, Biggar has that 'nerve' that seems to run in modern Welsh fly-halfs, Stephen has it, Jenks had it... Even if the flair of Hook or Tovey isn't there.

 

[MarkyMark89]

I totally agree with you that Habana is a shoe in. Because honestly he is playing terrible. I dont think he had caught a pass in the whole of the tri nations (slight exaduration but you know what i mean).

 

[Amobokoboko]

I saw a post the other day that got me wondering: What players, for whatever intenrational side, are truely unreplaceable, and must be on the teamsheet every time? I'm not talknig about coaches favourates, but those who deserve to start every possible game. In or out of form, (Well, imagining it isn't utterly attrochious.) could/should they keep their place?

I'd say:

England-
None, actually. Ben Youngs probaly will become one, but at the moment there are still people breathing down his neck.

Wales-
Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Shane Williams, James Hook

Ireland-
Paul O'Connell, Brian O'Driscoll, Tommy Bowe

Scotland-
Chris Patterson

France-
William Servat, Yannick Jauzion

Italy-
Sergio Parriese, Martin Castrogiavani

New Zealand-
Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Ma'a Nonu

South Africa-
Pieres Spies, Bryan Habana

Austrailia-
Rocky Elsom, Matt Giteau

Argentina-
Felipe Contepome, Jean Martin Fernandez Lobbe

Great topic,

Nonu is a great player but he's on the same level as Mills, Spies for SA is a bit exaggerated. Then I prefer Kankowski or Matfield.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Can't say that I know the current England squad

Wales.. the front row probably. I used to rate Byrne as a shoe-in.

Ireland. I rate Heaslip but I don't know who the backbone is.

France. Imanol, Servat, Jauzion..

SA is not the same without du Preez. Other shoe-ins; Fourie, Burger, Matfield, Smith, Smit. No-one near as important as du Preez, though. Matfield and Smit in very bad form at the mo and SA feeling it. Maybe time to move on..

NZ.. obviously McCaw, Carter and I feel Smith more so than Nonu. Mealamu is the epitomy of consistant excellence. Thorne. Muliaina has a couple of up-and-commers on his heels but when he fires, NZ are hard to stop.

Aus has Sharpe, Pocock and Elsom. Probably the first choice front row as well but more because of a lack of depth than anything else (not that I don't rate them). Genia and AAC in the backs irreplaceable IMO.

 

[Charles]

France-
Don't really pay that much attention to the French.

Excellent

 

[Peat]

For England...

Steve Thompson. Nick Easter.

... Thats pretty damn depressing. Or not in a way. Cole and Croft aren't in as I'd have no qualms starting Wilson or Robshaw. Foden likewise for Armitage or Goode. Ashton and Youngs probably be on that list, but would like prolonged evidence that they are the real deal...

Also feel that Ferris and Heaslip should be on any list of Irish shoe-ins.