Saints1
Straight Edge
The Daily Mash is ace, but university is very important.
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Socialist lowlife condones anarchy
- Thread starter Teh Mite
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Fine, but why exactly do people need to study an "Oligy"?
Once upon a time it was considered a privilage to go to Uni, now it seem to be considered a "human right" regardless of merit or ability - When I met a load of my flatmate's birds' Uni mates last year, I was astounded by just how thick they all are.
Once upon a time it was considered a privilage to go to Uni, now it seem to be considered a "human right" regardless of merit or ability - When I met a load of my flatmate's birds' Uni mates last year, I was astounded by just how thick they all are.
Saints1
Straight Edge
There are plenty of garbage courses at universities. A LOT. Mostly "Film and Media" related. My mate, who is ardent Labour like myself, reckons we should be charging £9000 a year for those courses and that "proper" courses like Business Studies, Engineering, Biology, Journalism, Teaching etc etc should be at current levels and some even subsidised by the state as an investment. With which I would agree.
But this £9000 a year business for all? Scandalous. It's pricing people out of university. There are some thick people who get through the net, I agree,and I'm not exactly Mr Brain 2010 myself, but this country has made some huge steps over the last 13 years to get people like me into university, and now Cameron, Clegg and a gang of parasites who know exactly what they are doing, have ensured that this country is going to lose its bright talents over the coming years.
I think to an extent that is right,
Definately on the teaching front. Hopefully they won't up teaching degrees (it's a £9k cap, not £9k across the board) as that will seriously put many people off doing it (my girlfriend is going to do a PGCE a year after we graduate, but if she's got to pay best part of £10k for it, I doubt she'll do it)
On the flip side of the coin: All these people who are upset about paying back 9k for their degree wouldn't think twice about paying back a 9k loan for a car.
Maybe, just maybe, this will weed out all the ingreds who don't have interest in completing their courses and finally return some value to the whole point of earning a qualification?????
Maybe, just maybe, this will weed out all the ingreds who don't have interest in completing their courses and finally return some value to the whole point of earning a qualification?????
On a different point: Countries like the United States never complain about "college fees".
Saints1
Straight Edge
The worst thing about it is cutting the grant you get. I took a 2 year course and whilst I got £500 a month, those on the 1 year course got £1000 a month. That's a month's wages in any jobs. Coupled with student loans etc I was able to survive leaving my job, just about, although it was all fruitless as I failed the course and I was totally unable to take the resit as it would have cost me £12 a day. I don't regret leaving my dreadful, shocking job at HMRC, but I wish I would have studied law.
That's what I mean about a brain drain - if people want to teach I can promise you the likes of China, South Korea and the Emirates in the gulf will throw money at potential teachers as they can never, ever get enough of them.
That's what I mean about a brain drain - if people want to teach I can promise you the likes of China, South Korea and the Emirates in the gulf will throw money at potential teachers as they can never, ever get enough of them.
Saints1
Straight Edge
It probably will - I know someone who went to uni just so he could get the first installment of his loan and grant (£2000 or so) and then left it 3 weeks and withdrew from the course. It just sticks the loan onto his tab. I'm all for weeding people out like that.
But it also weeds out bright kids from poor backgrounds, who just simply won't be able to afford it now or in 20 years. I've got a degree and my wage is <£15000.
Seems to me that's the way of the world in the USA - just for rich kids. It doesn't need to be like that here, but Cameron and Clegg are intent on it.
Ah, but for every potential teacher in uni, there are umpteen who want to do cookery, media, an "oligy" and paper aeroplane making (that last one ISN'T a joke). Then remember all those who got in but dropped out, thus robbing the poor sap who just missed out of the oppertunity.
In the long run this will return value to earning a degree - And the people who attain them will finally be able to get themselves a decent job. Those who just want work in an Estate Agent don't need letters after their names.
Your Sincerely
Joe Bloggs (BSC Hons)
Binman
In the long run this will return value to earning a degree - And the people who attain them will finally be able to get themselves a decent job. Those who just want work in an Estate Agent don't need letters after their names.
Your Sincerely
Joe Bloggs (BSC Hons)
Binman
Saints1
Straight Edge
I agree that it's ridiculous Binmen need a degree. I don't think this will bring values back to degrees - it will just see people who should be in uni not being able to go. I won't be able to do my degree in law now, that's gone for the chop.
For most jobs in this world mate, a degree isn't necessary. I deliberately chose not to go to Uni and instead concentrated on learning the industry I chose by doing it. Without trying to come off as arrogant, I'm as good at what I do now as anyone else in the business - Those 5 years I spent learning the trade instead of sitting in lectures means I've got double the experience of my peers who chose that route. In another 10 years when the difference is negligible on that front, nobody will give a toss about university anyway.
Saints1
Straight Edge
Which is all well and good mate - I admire your approach.
However, a lot of jobs out there require a degree, and a quite good one at that, in order for you to get into jobs and graduate positions. The days of a journalist turning up at their local paper and asking if they can learn the trade are long gone. That's a business and employer issue as opposed to anything else.
I do agree with you mostly here - it's ludicrous you need a degree to launch binbags into the back of a van!
However, a lot of jobs out there require a degree, and a quite good one at that, in order for you to get into jobs and graduate positions. The days of a journalist turning up at their local paper and asking if they can learn the trade are long gone. That's a business and employer issue as opposed to anything else.
I do agree with you mostly here - it's ludicrous you need a degree to launch binbags into the back of a van!
That it's though - Those days are gone because every Tom, Dick and Harry has a degree from the University of MyNutSack. If they weren't given out as freely as a dose of the clap on the Manchester Moss Side estate, that wouldn't be an issue as the value of the degrees wouldn't be so eroded.
Think of it this way: Would the Star players in Rugby 08 be worth as much if 60% of the roster had them?
Saints1
Straight Edge
To counter that, it was businesses and the like that wanted the initial reform of degrees so they're reaping what they sew.
gingergenius
First XV
the problem here lies with the fact that a 'degree' can now be had by all, be it from oxford or hull polytechnic. bullitt's quite right in this sense.
people need to realise that there are varying types of jobs, not all of which require a degree. there are academic minded careers - teacher, doctor, lawyer, journalist etc. where a uni degree is useful - in the case of being a doctor it is your training; if you're gonna be a teacher or journalist it gives you a profound expertise in your chosen subject, and so on.
builders, nurses, plumbers etc. do not need this academic background. their skill - while no less valuable - requires practical knowledge and experience. So these guys should be doing apprenticeships from 16 or 18 so they can learn their trade properly. my mum trained as a nurse, at a hospital. nowadays she'd have to do a nursing degree. and my mate is doing a 'marine studies' degree at plymouth - so he's spent 2 years doing **** all before finally going on a ship around the world and learning the trade properly in 3rd year. makes no sense.
then there's your careers that you barely need A levels for - salesman, shop assistants, shelf stackers... these people should bloody well get jobs straight away... no need for some crap degree from some crap uni. (of course there is in the current climate because everyone else has one, but there shouldn't be).
how should the tories change this? they need to distinguish between the 'right to education' that underpins state primary, secondary and 6th form education, and 'higher education', which is essentially further training that people do not have an explicit right to. And if they don't have a right to it, then it has to be earnt by strong perfrmances in A levels. Which means the cream of the academic crop go to uni. Tuition fees for them should be set at a graded value, with students from poorer backgrounds being subsidised to continue with higher education and ones from richer backgrounds paying more (since they'll undoubtedly receive financial help from their parents anyway).
Those who want to learn a trade should have a widely accepted means of qualification in that trade that doesn't involve uni. I know someone, for example, who is a Master Builder - which is a certificate to say that he's a ******* good one. This should be spread across the board. Again, the government should be able to subsidise apprentices through these schemes.
As for the rest - if you're not the brightest spark/ cock up your exams for other reasons, then that's not the end of the world. You can still learn a trade, which will capitalise on other skills to the academic ones the school system obsesseses about. If you don't want to do this, then you can fund your own way through uni or get a normal job that doesn't require a degree.
If this were the system in place, we'd see a lot less people getting meaningless degrees, and thus a lot more people in full time jobs, and thus more taxpayers. More importantly, it will reduce the quantity of students in the country, but increase the quality. Cameron's raise of the tuition fees will only reduce the quantity - and quality poor students will be among those who miss out.
people need to realise that there are varying types of jobs, not all of which require a degree. there are academic minded careers - teacher, doctor, lawyer, journalist etc. where a uni degree is useful - in the case of being a doctor it is your training; if you're gonna be a teacher or journalist it gives you a profound expertise in your chosen subject, and so on.
builders, nurses, plumbers etc. do not need this academic background. their skill - while no less valuable - requires practical knowledge and experience. So these guys should be doing apprenticeships from 16 or 18 so they can learn their trade properly. my mum trained as a nurse, at a hospital. nowadays she'd have to do a nursing degree. and my mate is doing a 'marine studies' degree at plymouth - so he's spent 2 years doing **** all before finally going on a ship around the world and learning the trade properly in 3rd year. makes no sense.
then there's your careers that you barely need A levels for - salesman, shop assistants, shelf stackers... these people should bloody well get jobs straight away... no need for some crap degree from some crap uni. (of course there is in the current climate because everyone else has one, but there shouldn't be).
how should the tories change this? they need to distinguish between the 'right to education' that underpins state primary, secondary and 6th form education, and 'higher education', which is essentially further training that people do not have an explicit right to. And if they don't have a right to it, then it has to be earnt by strong perfrmances in A levels. Which means the cream of the academic crop go to uni. Tuition fees for them should be set at a graded value, with students from poorer backgrounds being subsidised to continue with higher education and ones from richer backgrounds paying more (since they'll undoubtedly receive financial help from their parents anyway).
Those who want to learn a trade should have a widely accepted means of qualification in that trade that doesn't involve uni. I know someone, for example, who is a Master Builder - which is a certificate to say that he's a ******* good one. This should be spread across the board. Again, the government should be able to subsidise apprentices through these schemes.
As for the rest - if you're not the brightest spark/ cock up your exams for other reasons, then that's not the end of the world. You can still learn a trade, which will capitalise on other skills to the academic ones the school system obsesseses about. If you don't want to do this, then you can fund your own way through uni or get a normal job that doesn't require a degree.
If this were the system in place, we'd see a lot less people getting meaningless degrees, and thus a lot more people in full time jobs, and thus more taxpayers. More importantly, it will reduce the quantity of students in the country, but increase the quality. Cameron's raise of the tuition fees will only reduce the quantity - and quality poor students will be among those who miss out.
Saints1
Straight Edge
I reckon a lot of that is spot on.
I did think that the best way to deal with this would be quota the degrees which everyone seems to go for. Only let a certain number across the country and specialise in universities eg like the doctorate courses.
As for the money side of things I think the key studies are still getting, although slightly cut this will be taken into account by the increase which Is a variable amount. On the torries enforcing this change, it was the previous government which reformed the uni system, and made it a free for all in the first place, you could also argue that if it wasn't for the actions of the previous government we would not be in the financial mess we are but they are all as bad as each other.
I have only ever done a foundation degree, it helped me get a placement in my second year, I have then moved on my career and now earning a salary which is rather attractive. My sister went straight into employment and is now a qualified accountant, so there is proof you don't need a degree to get on. It depends on your career is the main part.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As for the money side of things I think the key studies are still getting, although slightly cut this will be taken into account by the increase which Is a variable amount. On the torries enforcing this change, it was the previous government which reformed the uni system, and made it a free for all in the first place, you could also argue that if it wasn't for the actions of the previous government we would not be in the financial mess we are but they are all as bad as each other.
I have only ever done a foundation degree, it helped me get a placement in my second year, I have then moved on my career and now earning a salary which is rather attractive. My sister went straight into employment and is now a qualified accountant, so there is proof you don't need a degree to get on. It depends on your career is the main part.
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Duckdee
First XV
Heh.
Saints1
Straight Edge
Hang on, I'm not on an attractive salary, and I've got an iPhone!
Duckdee
First XV
The timing just tickled me. 
Last edited:
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