South Africa vs Wales (14 June - Pretoria)

[Steve-o]

After last weeks performance the Grand Slam champions Wales have alot to prove. The Springboks looked very organised and played effective rugby against their out-classed opponents, Wales.

Having a new coaching staff, 10 changes to the team that won the WC last year and reverting back to the 'old' rules for the 1st time this year, the Boks looked unaffected and stood up the verbal threats coming from the Welsh camp with a convincing 26 point victory on Saturday, 43-17.

The general concensus across Welsh and Saffa blogs, forums and newspapers were that the Boks simply looked stronger, faster, fitter and more 'streetwise'. For the first time in his coaching term with Wales people are doubting Gatland's tactics, doubting the Welsh team, and NH rugby in general. The Boks had an average on 21 international caps, while Wales had an average of 38.

The difference is this...



http://www.keo.co.za/2008/06/09/southern-h...e-to-hold-sway/

The Springboks’ decimation of the Welsh at the breakdown proved why the three Sanzar sides are light years ahead of their northern counterparts.

A 26-point victory is a pleasing start to a new era, but Peter de Villiers and his assistants will be particularly chuffed with the Boks’ performance at the breakdown. It hardly mattered that the hosts were bullied in the scrums. The real fight was won at the collisions where the Dragons were a few weight classes shy of the South Africans.

Wales coach Warren Gatland admitted as much after the game. Gatland is demanding a bigger effort in the second Test, but effort is not going to be decisive. The Boks are coming off another taxing Super Rugby season where the battle at the breakdown is more intense than in any other regional competition in the world. The Welsh are not exposed to this sort of brand in the European competitions, and this is why they struggled to make any impression at the tackle point last Saturday.

Any coach will tell you that the breakdown is the most important facet of the game. The number of scrums and line-outs pale in comparison to the number of rucks. The Wallabies don’t usually possess a strong scrum, but their abilities at the breakdown ensure they remain competitive.

Wales battled to match the physicality of the South Africans in Bloemfontein. On defence, they did their best to spoil, but ineffectively so. On attack, they conceded too many turnovers. This is why their overall effort appeared disjointed - they were never able to build any momentum.

The Boks were exactly the opposite, outmuscling the Welsh at the point of contact. Luke Watson was influential with his attack on the ball carrier which yielded several turnovers. Juan Smith and Pierre Spies were prominent in driving over the advantage line, as were the tight forwards. As well drilled as the Welsh defence was, the Celtics just didn’t have the strength nor the technique to quell the incessant South African surge.

The Boks were successful in France last year because of their superiority in the collisions. Reverting back to the old laws for this last week’s fixture saw a similar approach. The Boks neglected to spin it wide because they knew the Welsh were going to be more vulnerable closer to the point of contact. The Welsh backline has some big defenders who snuffed out many an attack last Saturday. But the Boks used their wings sparingly, a strategy, as backward as it sounds, that paid dividends.

Although this match was played under the old laws, the influence of the ELVs was patent. The Boks looked the far fitter side, and while it wasn’t the most expansive display, the hosts tried to keep the ball alive in contact. Given their physical dominance, they may well have rumbled up the middle for eighty minutes, but there was a significant difference in how the big men looked to offload after being hit in a tackle.

The Boks are already preparing for the switch back to the ELVs following the 21 June Test against Italy. The ELVs will go global at the end of the year and don’t be surprised if the northern nations battle to adapt. Given that European competitions are far less intense in terms of speed and physicality at the breakdown, it follows that the respective Test sides will also struggle to compete against South Africa, New Zealand and Australia when the three teams tour the UK in November.

[/b]

People can call this arrogant or whatever, you can sugar coat these facts as much as you want but much was said on the field on Saturday and this will be shown again in the game this weekend.



Personally I'm looking forward to the game this weeked, as it's anyone's guess (AGAIN) what team PdV will possibly play. My bet is he'll probably play the strongest possible side to get some combinations and partnerships going.



My pick:

15 - Jantjies

14 - Chavhanga

13 - Steyn

12 - De Villiers

11 - Habana

10 - Grant/James

9 - Januarie

8 - Kankowski

7 - Smith

6 - Watson

5 - Matfield

4 - Botha

3 - BJ Botha

2 - Smit

1 - van der Linde



16 - du Plessis

17 - BEAST!!!

18 - Rossouw

19 - Bekker

20 - Pienaar

21 - Ndungane

22 - Grant/James



Admitedly this isn't the strongest 15 but I think he'll probably mix it up again.

Not too sure about who the replacement backs are gonna be. I wish Bobo wasn't in the squad... he can only cover 13, and it not even that good at that. If Percy doesn't start he won't be on the bench IMO.

 

[sanzar]

Yeah, I was as surprised as anyone with last weeks result. Wales had a few missing, sure, but the boks were no better off with the massive changes in player and management staff since the RWC and the sudden reversion to the old rules. Really, apart from the home ground advantage (and crowd wise this was one of the least intimidating Bok crowds I've ever seen - with barely anyone making a sound most of the match) Wales really had it all in their favour. They really need to stand up this week if they want any sort of recognition for the 6 nations triumph.

 

[Jer1cho]

I think the 15 you chose is damn strong... That is a tri-nations winning team. I dare to even say the team that will finally whoop New Zealand in their own back yard.... (just add Spies)

Anyway. Wales at Loftus, against on form Boks, with a win under the belt...

South Africa 55
Wales 13

 

[silent_shadow]

I'm sure Pienaar won't be there. Bolla, like it or not, played well and probably deserves another chance. Why not Spies ahead of Rossouw? Steyn starting ahead of Jacobs I can't imagine either with Jacobs playing well. Maybe Grant to sit out? But he deserves a spot because of Super 14 form I guess. In any case I won't want to be the coaching team...
I have a feeling the scores will be similar this week. Both teams' attack and defense will improve and it'll probably be a more exciting game with a good crowd in.
Hopefully our wings will get more of the ball this game.

 

[nicolaas777]

hey guys...im new here

my xv would be:

15 jantjies
14 chavanga
13 steyn
12 de villiers
11 habana (duh)
10 james
9 januarie

8 spies
7 smith
6 watson
5 matfield
4 botha
3 beast
2 smit
1 steenkamp

16 du plessis
17 van der linde
18 bekker
19 kankowski
20 pienaar
21 grant
22 erm...probably percy

i think it's a pretty damn good team

 

[candybum]

To me its hard to see any changes because they all played pretty well aye, like it would be stink dropping them. In saying that i love to see Steyn out there because he's the mantis lol

 

[Steve-o]

I'm sure Pienaar won't be there. Bolla, like it or not, played well and probably deserves another chance. Why not Spies ahead of Rossouw? Steyn starting ahead of Jacobs I can't imagine either with Jacobs playing well. Maybe Grant to sit out? But he deserves a spot because of Super 14 form I guess. In any case I won't want to be the coaching team...
I have a feeling the scores will be similar this week. Both teams' attack and defense will improve and it'll probably be a more exciting game with a good crowd in.
Hopefully our wings will get more of the ball this game. [/b]

Thing about Pienaar is that he can play 9, 10 or 15; and Conradie did play well but Pienaar is a class above him. Lets be honest about Conradie here, I'm sure the coach was pleased with his performance but he's still a 30 year man with 11 caps to his name. He's not a future prospect at all, and will be humbled by Oz and NZ imo.

I chose Rossouw because he can cover 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; and to be honest I haven't seen Spies play 6 or 7, so he is considered a specialist 8th man in this line up. Not saying he can't play flank, just never seen him there. I would rather have Wickus on than Rossouw but with that 3 year contract in England he fell out of a Bok spot. And in some ways I enjoy the physicality Rossouw brings, bit of a meat head but he does the bashing up stuff well.

Lets also be honest about Jacobs vs Steyn. Jacobs is playing the best rugby of his life at 29 or 30 (?) and has lost a yard of pace. Steyn won the most promising young player award in 2007, he has so much talent. He needs game time though, and this game is the last competitive game we got before the Tri-Nations.

 

[Macsen]

* tumbleweeds of silence for the Welsh contingent *

I hope to see a much improved Welsh performance next Sat. Although SH rugby is clearly superior, I don't think the result should be interpreted as indicative of a huge divide between NH and SH rugby. Truth is that if Wales had turned in a performance like that at the Six Nations we would have lost to Scotland or Italy. There was a total lack of discipline and by the time we found our feet we were already 10+ points behind. Fitness should also be a concern - Wales did well in the Six Nations by outlasting the other team in the second half. I don't know if it was the altitude or what but they looked out on their feet at the end and let in some soft tries. Time to invest in a training base atop Mt Snowdon maybe.

 

[Cymro]

Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!

 

[BLR]

Although SH rugby is clearly superior, I don't think the result should be interpreted as indicative of a huge divide between NH and SH rugby.[/b]

Those two parts of the sentence are largely at odds with each other.

 

[Macsen]

Those two parts of the sentence are largely at odds with each other. [/b]

How? I'm saying SH is better, but not 26 points better.

 

[Bull]

Really, apart from the home ground advantage (and crowd wise this was one of the least intimidating Bok crowds I've ever seen - with barely anyone making a sound most of the match) Wales really had it all in their favour.[/b]

Agreed the crowd as well as the attendance was disappointing but I expect that to be different this coming Saturday. I think there will be at least 40000 people if not a sell out and the Loftus crowd is one of the loudest most intimidating out there.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]

Good thing too. If James started, Habana would make mincemeat of him, and Mark Jones did a good job containing him on Saturday, so it would be pretty stupid to let him start.

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely.

 

[Jer1cho]

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. tongue.gif
[/b]

Well, we managed 43 last week, add the confidence, add Loftus, at least another 12 points worth...

 

[Sir Speedy]

Haven't you heard? It's become a well known fact that Gatland was just lulling zee Boks into a false sense of security, so come the second test, we'll obliterate you with the flick of an eyebrow...a MAGIC one that is! :mellow:

D:

Wales 20 - SA 32

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotemain'>
Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]

Good thing too. If James started, Habana would make mincemeat of him, and Mark Jones did a good job containing him on Saturday, so it would be pretty stupid to let him start.

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. [/b][/quote]

Ok we can let Stoddart come off the bench and ruin the game again <_<

 

[BLR]

<div class='quotemain'>Those two parts of the sentence are largely at odds with each other. [/b]

How? I'm saying SH is better, but not 26 points better.
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, the 6 nations champions against a Bok team formulated from some extremely underperforming South African Super 14 teams while thier national system seems to not be in the best shape in regards to the politics in thier country...it should have been far more evenly matched but it shows the difference in class between the two different teams....

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]

Good thing too. If James started, Habana would make mincemeat of him, and Mark Jones did a good job containing him on Saturday, so it would be pretty stupid to let him start.

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. [/b][/quote]

Ok we can let Stoddart come off the bench and ruin the game again <_<
[/b][/quote]
Oh, did you mean off the bench? Fair enough then.

 

[Steve-o]

Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]

I'll you give you Welsh boys one thing, you're very optimistic.
Why do you guys lambast over Edwards and Gatland so much? Throw me concerts and give them awards. They still have much to prove
So much praise is not very constructive

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]

I'll you give you Welsh boys one thing, you're very optimistic.
Why do you guys lambast over Edwards and Gatland so much? Throw me concerts and give them awards. They still have much to prove
So much praise is not very constructive
[/b][/quote]
How many coaching set-ups in the World would have taken Wales from a WC pool-stage exit to a Grand Slam? None bar Edwards and Gatland in World rugby at the moment. Besides, a loss to the World Champions, in their own back yard, missing many key players, having to get used to the altitude and conditions and having to get used to the Ed+Gat style of play after the majority of this Welsh squad went back to Lyn Jones (he's the epitomy of a **** coach, so you know) at the Ospreys doesn't change that much. You guys seem to be taking it way overboard as if Wales are suddenly nobody's again. If you come to Cardiff in the Autumn and beat our full strength side, then I'll admit I was wrong, but until then...