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South Africas sports minister hits out against quota system

It occurs to me here in Nelson (even further away from South Africa than Perth) that maybe, just maybe, there are comparatively few black/coloured people who are actually interested in playing Rugby. On those (admittedly infrequent) occasions when I see SA Soccer teams play, it is very much a case of "spot the whitey". I seem to recall that Bafana Bafana had a white goalkeeper at one time. Soccer in SA appears to attract hugely more blacks/coloureds that whites. Is that a fair statement?

What was the "ultimate" aim of the quota system? If it was to eventually have blacks/coloured playing Rugby Union in a comparable ratio to the overall demographic of SA, then it was surely doomed to failure from the start. There would just not be enough blacks/coloureds interested in playing, so I cannot see any possibility that Springbok squad of 22 would ever be made up of two whites, two coloureds and 18 blacks.

Its a difficult one.

At school level, there is a much 'healthier' spread of demographics than provincial/ national level, but obviously varies from school to school. I'd say a big problem in terms of transformation lies in that the top echelon of rugby schools in SA still have a relatively poor demographic spread. Now, obviously these schools run intense rugby programmes, fitness regimes and quality coaches, so they provide the vast majority of SAs pro and club players. There was even a study done a year or two back showed that most of the black/ coloured players that left these schools did not pursue rugby careers (pro and club), why they did or did not wasn't covered. So I'd certainly say there is a grass roots and social/ economic problem that needs to be addressed before senior levels of rugby are looked at. The school fees at most of these schools are simply too high for even most middle class blacks/ coloureds. However though it must be noted that the demographic spread is 'improving' quickly.

With soccer, most of the 'English whites' in SA do watch and 'support' a soccer team, most of the time a foreign club and not a local one. In my experience a lot of predominantly white schools have only adopted soccer as a sport in the last 8 years or so, mainly because of the world cup I suppose, but the focus is still on rugby and such. There are far more professional white players plying their trade in the PSL and National 1st Division than Bafana Bafana squads suggest, its a matter of opinion but I feel that most of these players are rightly overlooked, they are simply not as good as their coloured counter-parts. Whether or not an increased participation of whites would lead to an increase in white Bafana players is hard to say, look at England/ France, blacks there are a minority but often dominate the national team's numbers.

As for the quota system, as I posted in another thread, it works both ways. My cousin (whom is white) was part of a athletics team, but they were barred from entering a competition because the squad did not have enough white athletes in it. Fast forward a few years , she was back in Durban and part of the KZN swimming team, whom were similarily barred from a tournament initially because there were no black swimmers, despite none making the provincial trials. A swimmer was drafted in and they competed.

The goal of the quota system? To encourage the participation of the sport affected from all racial groups, to simply ensure there is a 'fair' representation of demographics, or to ensure that there are fair and equal opportunities for all race groups to advance in the sport free of the threat of prejudice? The same can be asked of the BBBEE policies, there are mixed messages being sent out by the government imo, and whether or not the quota system has contributed to whatever their goals are is hard to tell, for reasons I outlined in the first two paragraphs.

Then again, I take a foreign view on things in SA, and could easily be missing out on things that a 'local' would not , so take what I say with a pinch of salt ;)
 
I remember only a few South Africans playing for Bafana Bafana in the last 15 years. Hans Vonk, Neil Tovey, Glenn Salmon (of which 2 also played in Holland). Most of them are coloured or black. I don't see any quota systems in place there so why should Rugby suffer from a quota system if the black players are not necessarily better?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You seriously believe that?

The quota system is in place to ensure opportunity for previously disadvantaged people. Whites are not classified as such. There is no quota system in football because one is not needed. The entire purpose of the quota system is the create a sports team that is reflective of the demographics of the country.

I cant believe that on a RUGBY FORUM with South Africans participating here, the quota system is an alien concept to you lot.
 
Its a difficult one. .... so take what I say with a pinch of salt ;)

Thanks for the comments. Good info that gave me more to think about

I cant believe that on a RUGBY FORUM with South Africans participating here, the quota system is an alien concept to you lot.

Why wouldn't it be?

I consider the application of any system of selection in sport based on nothing more than the colour of a person's skin to utterly abhorrent. Its is no more than another form of Racism. People like Nelson Mandela, Mongosuthu Buthalezi and Desmond Tutu fought long and hard to free South Africa of racial discrimination only to have this sort of crap rear its ugly head; to paraphrase Shakespeare... "Racism by any other name would smell as foul"
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You seriously believe that?

The quota system is in place to ensure opportunity for previously disadvantaged people. Whites are not classified as such. There is no quota system in football because one is not needed. The entire purpose of the quota system is the create a sports team that is reflective of the demographics of the country.

I cant believe that on a RUGBY FORUM with South Africans participating here, the quota system is an alien concept to you lot.

Aha! So discrimination only works one way for you? That is a bit racist, don't you think? We need to have a quota system in rugby for black people, but when it comes to football, we don't need a quota system for whites. Very naughty of you ;)
 
Good point you made here Ezequiel. But I reckon he didn't mention it as he has no clue on the percentage of SA of European descent that actually play football.
 
Thanks for the comments. Good info that gave me more to think about



Why wouldn't it be?

I consider the application of any system of selection in sport based on nothing more than the colour of a person's skin to utterly abhorrent. Its is no more than another form of Racism. People like Nelson Mandela, Mongosuthu Buthalezi and Desmond Tutu fought long and hard to free South Africa of racial discrimination only to have this sort of crap rear its ugly head; to paraphrase Shakespeare... "Racism by any other name would smell as foul"

Dude, it is racism. But its a fact of life in South African sport
 
Aha! So discrimination only works one way for you? That is a bit racist, don't you think? We need to have a quota system in rugby for black people, but when it comes to football, we don't need a quota system for whites. Very naughty of you ;)

Who the hell said I supported the quota system you idiot? Are you mentally handicapped? I said that there is no quota in Football, there are quotas in all other sports. The reason for that is that the government does not feel whites are denied opportunity. I dont write the rules.

Jesus guys, these are not opinions, they are statements of fact. Get your head out of your arse. South African sports have quota systems. They have been in place since 1996.

Believe what you want to believe. Obviously facts dont matter here. How people can deny there is a quota system in place I just dont understand. Its been part of our sporting history since 1996.

Disgusting.
 
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Good point you made here Ezequiel. But I reckon he didn't mention it as he has no clue on the percentage of SA of European descent that actually play football.

There are tons of white south africans who dont get a second look in. Most head to Europe, where they play in minor leagues or they stop playing once they leave school.
 
Your point in this makes little sense to me.
The quote you cite is not about rugby, but SA sport in general (although the article then goes on to apply it to rugby) and seems to say that more effort should be made to get a better balance of professional players in sport.
He accepts that quotas are not the way forward, which I think is something everyone can agree on, but you seem to be fairly aggressively pursuing the idea that these quotas are in place in a significant form in professional rugby.

This goes against what was written in more reliable sources than yours that have already been cited in this thread.
You also use the fact that people like Ralapelle (spelling? :p) and Rose have been in the squad as pseudo-evidence for your point, but I have to point out that coaches the world over are morons in the eyes of the fans.
Is the fact that Hendre Fourie is in the England setup despite there being far better homegrown alternatives evidence that MJ is specifically picking people who play for northern teams? There sure has been a lot of talk about wanting to promote union up north, this must mean there is some kind of 'deal' between the RFU and the northern clubs right? There's no way that MJ could just be crap at selection right?
 
Who the hell said I supported the quota system you idiot? Are you mentally handicapped? I said that there is no quota in Football, there are quotas in all other sports. The reason for that is that the government does not feel whites are denied opportunity. I dont write the rules.

Jesus guys, these are not opinions, they are statements of fact. Get your head out of your arse. South African sports have quota systems. They have been in place since 1996.

Believe what you want to believe. Obviously facts dont matter here. How people can deny there is a quota system in place I just dont understand. Its been part of our sporting history since 1996.

Disgusting.
Seriously its all a figment of your imagination.
 
Who the hell said I supported the quota system you idiot? Are you mentally handicapped? I said that there is no quota in Football, there are quotas in all other sports. The reason for that is that the government does not feel whites are denied opportunity. I dont write the rules.

Jesus guys, these are not opinions, they are statements of fact. Get your head out of your arse. South African sports have quota systems. They have been in place since 1996.

Believe what you want to believe. Obviously facts dont matter here. How people can deny there is a quota system in place I just dont understand. Its been part of our sporting history since 1996.

Disgusting.

It is truely disgusting

How can they fail to see while its sitting right there in black and white? (and on occasion colour)

Makes me glad that I am leaving this country laden with ignorant, delusion and liberal hippies

Just thinking about the state of denial on this forum has given me the urge to take a shower!
 
Who the hell said I supported the quota system you idiot? Are you mentally handicapped?

There is no need to get personal. You post more and more like a WUM. I'd watch your step, as WUMs are dealt with severely here.

You're probably lucky it was only Ezeqiel you called an idiot/retard. There are a couple of other "rednames" here that will ban your arse for that.
 
You're probably lucky it was only Ezeqiel you called an idiot/retard. There are a couple of other "rednames" here that will ban your arse for that.

Indeed...he is already off my Christmas card list and formally un-invited to my birthday party.
 
Funny that Baywatch has an amazing knowledge racial quotas and talks like he's South African when really he is a man based in Perth, Western Australia..
 
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Funny that Baywatch has an amazing knowledge racial quotas and talks like he's South African when really he is a man based in Perth, Western Australia.

Don't be like that you made him all sad :(
corkedhat1111_228x215.jpg
 
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There is no need to get personal. You post more and more like a WUM. I'd watch your step, as WUMs are dealt with severely here.

You're probably lucky it was only Ezeqiel you called an idiot/retard. There are a couple of other "rednames" here that will ban your arse for that.

I don't want to look like a softy now, but I just feel it's not my duty to give a ban for something concerning me. That is up to others. I feel moderators and administrators should at all times step aside when they are part of something worth penalising.

On that note, I want to say I couldn't care less about someone calling me mentally handicapped.
 
On that note, I want to say I couldn't care less about someone calling me mentally handicapped.
Indeed for someone to abuse another over their mental capacity in that manner is insensitive and idiotic.The subject is very often a raw nerve for so many people however and in my opinion it is a pretty serious offence.
 
Indeed for someone to abuse another over their mental capacity in that manner is insensitive and idiotic.The subject is very often a raw nerve for so many people however and in my opinion it is a pretty serious offence.

100% agreed. Seen and worked with people who are mentally handicapped and its not a pleasant thing to call people. But each to their own I suppose.
 
I just think it shows lack of inspiration to fall back to using insults so why should I be upset? Next time he will bump into a moderator who is less willing to see past it. Just a matter of time.
 

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