Springboks rwc 2011

[SavageLez]

With 2 Tri Nations matches to go before the RWC kicks off questions are being asked.

Can the "Bokke" rally together, get the injured players on the paddock and start winning.
Who should CAPTAIN the SPRINGBOKS @ the 2011 RWC?
If it is John Smit where should he play?
Is it Victor Matfields turn to lead the team to glory?

Statsguru has shown some interesting info:

Victor Matfield has captained the Springboks 13 times and won 10 times = 76.92% win ratio. Only Morne Du Plessis (86.66%) has a better winning ratio as a SA captain of 10 or more tests.
5 of these matches were against the top tier nations NZ and OZ.
He has not lost as captian to the All Black in 2 attempts.
First International captain to beat NZ in NZ since Martin Johnson England team in 2003.
First International Test player to beat NZ 4 times in one calender year (3 x as SA and 1 x Barbarians in 2009)
Only lost to OZ x 2 and Scotland (2010, second string team sent on UK tour).

I do feel that Victor Matfield should have been appointed captain of the Springboks after the British & Irish Lions tour but it is too late to cut Smit from the team now. The coach knows how that could be used against him if he fails at the RWC (Nick Mallett and Garry Teichmann 1999 RWC scenario). Victors win loss record should improve even more if he were made captain for the RWC 2011 with at least 3 or 4 wins in the group stages highly likely.

John Smit has lost 9 of his last 14 matches for SA and has a 62% winning record as SA Test Captain. This is largely due to no losses at the 2007 RWC and a great 2009 international test season. He has a 43% win ratio against the Tri Nations teams and an overall win ration of only 41% away from home. In 2009 he played PROP most of the season where he was actually very successful winning 76.92% of all test matches at prop and 83% of these were against the Tri Nations teams. He seemed to struggle more against the Northern Hemisphere props and Peter De Villiers has fallen into the trap of moving him back to hooker where he has been unsuccessful and this means a quality player in the form of Bismarck Du Plessis now has to warm the bench.

What are your thoughts on this evidence?
Does John Smit continue as CAPTAIN and if so does he stay at hooker or move back to prop to accommodate Bismarck Du Plessis
who is arguably the best hooker in world rugby?
What would your 30 man squad and starting 22 lineup be for the RWC 2011?

 

[SavageLez]

My opinion:

1. John Smit to captain but where stats show he was more successful at prop not hooker. This would solve the captaincy issue and open up a spot for Bismaarck Du Plessis.

2. My 30 man squad.

Looseheads: Beast and Guthro Steenkamp
Tightheads: Jannie Du Plessis & John Smit
Hookers: Bismarck Du Plessis & Chiiliboy Rallapelle (John Smit could cover hooker as well)
Locks: Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Danie Russouw
Flanks: Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Heindrich Brussouw
Eighth Men: Willem Alberts, Pierre Spies & Duanne Vermuelen (Vermuelen if not injured, Alberts and Spies can cover Flank as well)
Utility Forward: Ryan Kankowski (Lock, Flank or Eighth Man) & CJ Van der Linde (Van der Linde can play tight or loosehead prop)

Scrumhalves: Fourie Du Preez & Francois Hougaard
Flyhalves: Butch James & Morne Steyn
Centres: Jean De Villiers, Jaque Fourie & Juan De Jong
Wings: Bryan Habana, JP Pieterson, Gio Aplan
Fullbacks: Patrick Lambie & Francois Steyn
Utility Back: Ruan Pienaar (Scrum Half, Fly Half, Wing and Fullback)

To the most unlucky Non traveling back up players: Jean Deysel, Coenie Oosthuizen, Sarel Pretorius & Robert Eberson (Jean Deysel if Juan Smith is injured & Eberson if not injured)

Starting 22 players:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. John Smit (c)
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Victor Matfield
6. Heinrich Brussouw
7. Juan Smith
8. Schalk Burger

9. Fourie Du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean De Villiers
13. Jaque Fourie
14. JP Pieterson
15. Patrick Lambie (can move to fly half or centre if required)

16. Guthro Steenkamp
17. Jannie Du Plessis
18. Danie Russouw
19. Duanne Vermuelen
20. Pierre Spies
21. Frans Steyn (can play flyhalf, centre, wing and fullback)
22. Francois Hougaard (can play scrumhalf or wing)

 

[JW.]

Smith isn't a very good international prop. It's a sacrifice just to have him on the pitch. I'd take him as cover for hooker and prop but wouldn't start with him and have Burger or Matfield as a captain.

 

[SavageLez]

I presume you are talking about John Smit. I totally agree with you but it is too late to drop the Captain just before the world cup and as mentioned in the First thread Smit actually has a great record at prop for SA having played there in 2009 when SA won the Tri Nations, beat the All Blacks etc. I honestly believe Smit should have retired from test rugby after his RWC and British & Irish Lions successes. Victor Matfield deserved his chance and Smit is over the hill. I actually read an article today which it stated that John Smit had the worst defence as a hooker in the S15.

 

[nickdnz]

I thought the scrums were woeful when Smit moved to prop. He'll get monstered there during the WC.

as JW says, I'd have him in 30 man squad but only on the bench or sideline. He's actually been scoring pretty well lately, but his defense has been shocking over the last few years and he looked out of gas 10 minutes in. Bismark du Plessis, Chilliboy and Gary Botha are probably better players at the moment. Heck, Brits would also probably be less of a liability. The last thing I'd do is have him at prop.

 

[big ginger 8]

Just cause the team won doesn't mean he played well. S.A. were no.1 in 09.

 

[SavageLez]

Just cause the team won doesn't mean he played well. S.A. were no.1 in 09.

Good point but he could not have been too much of a liability there if SA beat NZ 3 x in 2009 (2 x with John Smit as captain). He has lost 9/14 matches since moving back to hooker. SA do lose less often when Bismarck starts.

 

[SavageLez]

I thought the scrums were woeful when Smit moved to prop. He'll get monstered there during the WC.

as JW says, I'd have him in 30 man squad but only on the bench or sideline. He's actually been scoring pretty well lately, but his defense has been shocking over the last few years and he looked out of gas 10 minutes in. Bismark du Plessis, Chilliboy and Gary Botha are probably better players at the moment. Heck, Brits would also probably be less of a liability. The last thing I'd do is have him at prop.

His defense is shocking but the coaches, players and the media reckon his leadership is too important to leave him out. As mentioned in the first thread the coaches fear that if they do drop Smit that they repeat what Mallett did in 1999 with Gary Teichman. Peter De Villiers and coaching staff don't want to give the media amunition if Springboks fail.

I do feel the reverse will happen anyhow, if SA fail the media will ask the question.
Why was John Smit persisted with knowing that he was over the hill and not even the 4th best choise hooker for SA.

In my opinion and in order of preferance these are SA's top hookers currently:

1. Bismarck Du Plessis
2. Schalk Brits
3. Adrian Strauss
4. Chilliboy Ralapelle (as substitute only)
5. Gary Botha
6. Tian Liebenburg
7. John Smit

 

[JW.]

Nice to see someone not underestimating Britz .

PDV just needs to take that risk, teams are going to score more points against SA because *J.Smit is on the field, playing him at Prop does seem to be the best option IF they wan't him on the pitch. Seeing his role in defence would be smaller in openplay then, the scum would be severely weaker though and seeing they aren't like Australia they need a solid platform. PDV got himself in some mess here lol.
I can understand Smit going for a final 'hurray' but PDV should have realised he wouldn't be fit enough a year or 2 ago and picked someone else as captain. [sarcasm]Which may have allready happened in there secret training camp.[/sarcasm]

 

[SavageLez]

Funny you mention that, I had the same thoughts. Is John Smit getting setup to fail, will he get displaced finally?
With Bismarck and the rest of the starting line up in SA it won't surprise me if John Smit was ommitted from the starting 15 or shifted to prop which will see Bismarck's brother Jannie Du Plessis missing out on the starting line up. If that happens it could cause a little upset in the ranks!

Wish we knew how the SA players themselves felt! It is tricky cause if you say anything as a player you could possibly jeapordise your place in the Springbok squad.

 

[SavageLez]

What effect do you think Rassie Erasmus will have on team selections and tactics at the RWC and next 2 Tri Nations matches?
In my opinion his defense systems at STORMERS could come handy. Boks need to learn how to tackle!

 

[lukeyhym]

There's a big argument presented here.....all these guys are good players, but you cannot simply discount Smitty's leadership values and scrummaging ability from hooker, as well as his effectiveness at close range both in attack and defence. A lot of people are slagging Smit for his performances in Australia and NZ but if you look at the positions on the field where he was caught out in, in defence, they are channels which he should not be needing to cover....The Back rows selected in Sydney and Wellington were extremely underwhelming, in particular the selection of Steggman, who i wouldn't select in a school 1st XV. Also consider that Danie Rossouw played in both back rows and despite being a very strong player, is a bit slow these days to be playing back row, in particular, #8 where he played in Wellington, a position with high defensive complexity, which requires high mobility and while Rossouw functioned well there in 2007, in the present, not so much, he needs to only be used at lock. The biggest issue for the boks is the organisation of their defensive pattern, Smit can be effective if the rest of the team selected around him are working to a strong pattern and the tight 5 assume the responsibility of the close exchanges, something they have not adapted to in the last 2 years, where the AB's and Wallabies have. If you carefully analyse both defensive and attacking structures implemented by teams such as the Reds, Crusaders, Leinster, AB's and Wallabies (arguably the benchmark teams for rugby played in the last 12 months) They all isolate their units into their most effective areas on the pitch as much as possible and recycle the ball in those areas dependant on which ones are proving most effective and then launch from them when they cross the advantage line. As far as i can see, the boks lack any form of structure at the moment and are getting caught out with guys out of position in defence AND attack, trying to keep up with the speedy recycling of the ball being produced by their opponents. Smit, being more of a traditional hooker, can be hugely effective playing in a team with A. higher quality players and experienced leaders surrounding him and B. a structure that allows him to dominate the areas of the pitch where he is most effective. Keep in mind how inexperienced that bok side was, they were visibly disorganised, with Smit holding almost half of the whole 22's international caps total....that'd be a tough environment for anyone to shine in, let alone a captain with a point to prove. I'm not necessarily saying he's the best hooker in the country still, nor that the team's structure should be built around him, but that if the boks sort their **** out, he can be effective for at least 60 minutes, when the boks can then bring on the likes of Bismarck and impose. One of the biggest strong points for the Boks in this world cup will be the options they have available off the bench and their ability to change the pace and or physicality of the game, whether that be to increase or decrease.....Experience is crucial at a world cup and the top 22 south african players have loads of it and Smitty is right up there....get the structure, attitude and momentum right and the team that everybody is talking about with negativity could emerge as the sleeping giant....Beware the defending world champs!

 

[SavageLez]

Great post, I am in agreement with you about Smit's experience just hope it comes to the fore at the RWC 2011.

 

[SavageLez]

Piter de Villiers and SARU CEO, Jurie Roux were in Parliament to inform the portfolio committee on sport and recreation about preparations for next month's Rugby World Cup tournament.

Puff Daddy made a most honourable statment.

'I deserve a medal'

He deserves a medal after four years as Springbok coach, Peter de Villiers said on Tuesday. "And a big one too," the coach added boldly.

WTF?!

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think John Smit must go as a non-playing captain to the world cup. let him be on the sidelines running up with water giving orders to the guys, calm them down and so on. Let Victor Matfield be on-field captain and let Bismarck take his rightful place as number 1 hooker in the country.

Problem solved!

 

[SavageLez]

Great idea. I suppose in a management role or something like that so that players don't lose respect for him. If his leadership is so important then I would agree.

 

[Seaton]

Piter de Villiers and SARU CEO, Jurie Roux were in Parliament to inform the portfolio committee on sport and recreation about preparations for next month's Rugby World Cup tournament.

Puff Daddy made a most honourable statment.

'I deserve a medal'

He deserves a medal after four years as Springbok coach, Peter de Villiers said on Tuesday. "And a big one too," the coach added boldly.

WTF?!

Have you no sense of humour

 

[SavageLez]

I have no worries regarding the journalists statements - it is rather amusing!
I was refering to De Villiers statement. On what grounds does he deserve a medal?
De Villiers is not joking he honestly believes that he deserves a medal.
In my opinion and many others he needs a kick up the ass!

If SA do get a medal at the world cup it will only be because approximately 22 players in the squad are World Cup winners formed by Jake White and because SARU have brought Rassis Erasmus in to help the Springboks cause.

Whats with the "Have you no sense of humour"?

 

[Seaton]

What P Divvy said was taken completely out of context.

It was a little swipe at the media if anything, and most certainly not a serious statement that he deserves a medal for simply doing his job

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Good point but he could not have been too much of a liability there if SA beat NZ 3 x in 2009 (2 x with John Smit as captain). He has lost 9/14 matches since moving back to hooker. SA do lose less often when Bismarck starts.

SA losing more often when Bismarck does start suggests that Bismarck should start ahead of Smit. Smit can 'lead' off the bench IMO. Matfield much more deserving and Smit is a liability at prop. I wouldn't drop him but i'd definately start Bismarck. Bismarck, Matfield, Brussow, Smith and FdP are THE key men for SA and the ones you can't omit.

My 1st choice 22 and extended squad;

1 Guthro Steenkamp - our top prop; if his lay-off hasn't changed him that is
2 Bismarck du Plessis - star player
3 Jannie du Plessis - most solid option; pretty much the only guy guaranteed of standing his ground even if he adds precious little extra
4 Bakkies Botha - has been a liability of late but if the staff can get some discipline from him...
5 Victor Matfield - possibly not revered as a captain as much as Smit but at least he is a sure pick (at least with Bekker ruled out)
6 Heinrich Brussow - showed in the S15 and this weekend in the CC that he can make an impact even if he was out for forever
7 Juan Smith - Mr reliable
8 Duane Vermeulen - having my shameless Stormers cap on I admit
9 Fourie du Preez - The general
10 Butch James - been there and has got enough to do it again
11 Gio Aplon - most dangerous SA back but a fullback IMO
12 Juan de Jongh - offers more than JdV IMO
13 Jaque Fourie - deceptively dangerous and solid in defense
14 JP Pietersen - SA needs workrate from their wingers
15 Riaan Viljoen - has the boot of Frans Steyn and the ability in attack of Aplon/Lambie

16 Tendai Mtawarira
17 John Smit
18 Danie Rossouw
19 Schalk Burger
20 Francois Hougaard
21 Patrick Lambie
22 Frans Steyn

Dean Greyling
CJ van der Linde
Adriaan Strauss
Flip van der Merwe
Willem Alberts
Ruan Pienaar
Morne Steyn
Jean de Villiers

(okay Viljoen and Vermeulen aren't in the squad so I'd like to see Lambie at 15 and Deysel at 8)