2013 British and Irish Lions

[Aedaphon]

Well he stood up pretty well for the Baa-Baas, I guess we'll see what he's capable of when he qualifies for Scotland.

Not particularly impressed by Ashton or Bowe recently, but they're both superb when in form. Pretty curious to see how the next 6 Nations pans out, if Wales hold form it's another Grand Slam in waiting.

 

[Teh Mite]

An open and free-flowing barbarians exhibition match is a world apart from a tight Lions test. Having seen Visser wearing my club colours during ND1, when frankly it was a season of men vs boys, I was thoroughly unimpressed despite his 2 tries in 3 games against turnstile defences.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

1. Jenkins (Wales)
2. Best (Ireland)
3. Jones (Wales)
4. AW Jones (Wales)
5. Lawes (England)
6. O'Brien (Ireland)
7. Warburton (Wales)
8. Heaslip (Ireland)
9. Youngs (England)
10. Sexton (Ireland)
11. Ashton (England)
12. Roberts (Wales)
13. Tuilagi (England)
14. Bowe (Ireland)
15. Foden (England)

16. Hartley (England)
17. Healy (Ireland)
18. Gray (Scotland)
19. Ferris (Ireland)
20. Phillips (Wales)
21. Priestland (Wales)
22. Halfpenny (Wales)

8 Welsh
7 Irish
6 English
1 Scottish

 

[Saintjay]

Well he stood up pretty well for the Baa-Baas, I guess we'll see what he's capable of when he qualifies for Scotland.

Not particularly impressed by Ashton or Bowe recently, but they're both superb when in form. Pretty curious to see how the next 6 Nations pans out, if Wales hold form it's another Grand Slam in waiting.

I am not as worried about Wales in the six nations as I was if I am honest, I would be more worried about the French away than I am about Wales at Twickenham.
As for Ashton, not sure what more he needs to do, top try scorer in the six nations, joint top try scorer in the world cup only playing five games as far as I know.

 

[Aedaphon]

As for Ashton, not sure what more he needs to do, top try scorer in the six nations, joint top try scorer in the world cup only playing five games as far as I know.

True, but any time we come up against a solid first tier defence his try-scoring ability seems to vanish. We were only getting go forward off Tuilagi against Argentina and France from what I can remember.

 

[Teh Mite]

True, but any time we come up against a solid first tier defence his try-scoring ability seems to vanish. We were only getting go forward off Tuilagi against Argentina and France from what I can remember.

You probably would see more from the likes of Ashton and Foden if they were allowed to play the same way Saints allow them instead of Brian Smiths rugby answer to dead rigid "four-four-****in'-two".

As for Tuilagi - Someone should teach that ball greedy ******** that the art of a centre is to know when to run and when to distribute.

 

[Saintjay]

True, but any time we come up against a solid first tier defence his try-scoring ability seems to vanish. We were only getting go forward off Tuilagi against Argentina and France from what I can remember.

Three against Australia combined, two against Wales, one against Scotland, four Italy, all tier one teams. I think I would take him over North and Halfpenny on the wing any day of the week.

The whole team was poor against Argentina and France. I think both wings during the game did not get the ball very much at all.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ashton these days =/= Ashton for Saints or in the matches above

England have stopped him running his support lines which is the best aspect of his game
Also he can't tackle and gives away a penalty every ruck he even glances at

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Richardt Strauss will be a reasonably experienced Irish international by then and I'd have him over any of the home nations and Ireland hookers.

I'd also have Ferris 6 and O'Brien 8, I really dislike Heaslip after this world cup he really showed he should never captain Ireland.

I think Priestland will grow into the best 10 in Europe over the next two years and I'd have him ahead of Sexton.

I can't see Roberts and Tuilagi working well together and I think Roberts is the better player so I'd rather have him.

Phillips would definitely be my 9 he is a superb player.
1. Jenkins
2. Strauss
3. A Jones
4. Gray
5. Wyn Jones
6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. O'Brien
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Bowe
14. Halfpenny
15. Foden

16. Rees
17. Healy
18. Lawes
19. Faletau
20. Murray
21. Sexton
22. Kearney

11 Welsh 9 starters
8 Irish 4 Starters
2 English 1 Starter
1 Scot Starting

 

[TRF_Olyy]

People go on about England having non-English players, at least we don't bring one in to England and actively wait for him to be qualified like Ireland have with Strauss :lol:

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah it's ridiculous but I can't wait until Strass can play, Jared Payne too hopefully.

 

[Seaton]

If Sean Maitland gets tired waiting for an All Blacks call-up, he is Scottish qualified.

Come on, you know you want to!

 

[j'nuh]

England have stopped him running his support lines which is the best aspect of his game

I'm not so sure. I don't think there was any point in the tournament when we had clean, go-forward ball. It ended up being broken back row play with rucks taking years to be cleared out, followed by pedestrian scrum-half distribution, followed by a deep standing, slow 10 who never passed (what good is support lines when you're not gonna get the ball?), followed by Tindall. I'm not sure you can blame Ashton for not creating himself any opportunities when there wasn't any kind of foundation for any creative play to begin with. The last time the players in front of Ashton played really well, he scored 4 tries. As it happens, he became the top joint try-scorer (despite playing fewer matches than most of the other top wingers) whilst in a team which wasn't working. Difficult to blame him, I think.

Anyway, it's too early to tell. Remember that whilst Roberts is on fire at the minute - easily the second best 12 in the world - he has had troubles in between this patch of good form and that of 2008/09. It doesn't take a long time for a player to go from being in a world XV to being lucky to make their international team.

 

[Peat]

Matthew Rees would be my choice over Hartley, but with Rees injured I would only select on current form.
Which scrumhalf has been better than Phillips lately? Youngs hasn't been up to his usual form lately and I don't rate Murray.
Lloyd Williams in 2013? Could happen!

Idle, almost tangential point, but Cockers has apparently been venting steam at the ears, nostrils and other extremeties over the state Youngs has been returned in and isn't playing him until his knee is better. Which I think puts his current form slightly into perspective.

I would be shocked if Youngs is not in major contention for that Lions starting berth, providing he's fit, in two years time.

Richardt Strauss will be a reasonably experienced Irish international by then and I'd have him over any of the home nations and Ireland hookers.

I'd also have Ferris 6 and O'Brien 8, I really dislike Heaslip after this world cup he really showed he should never captain Ireland.

On a similar note I don't think Heaslip was fully fit either, hasn't looked it for a while. Would be surprised if he's not in contention, although Faletau has set an almighty high standard (and if Leinster/Ireland move SOB to 8, Heaslip's f**ked, but it won't happen as Ferris will almost definitley break again before too long )

Oh, and Strauss will have difficulty getting past future Ireland captain Rory Best. You knows it.

(More seriously, by the time Strauss is qualified, I think Mike Sherry will be ready, and I think Sherry will turn out to be the better player. Although don't rule out captain Best...)


I can't be arsed to do a team, save to point out that Paddy Jackson will be the Lions 10. Priestland on the bench, just pipping Flood. I think.

 

[lucky number 7]

I don't rate Mike Phillips...a few decent runs and people ignore the painfully slow ball he delivers and his dickish attitude.

 

[Draggs]

I don't rate Mike Phillips...a few decent runs and people ignore the painfully slow ball he delivers and his dickish attitude.

He is a scrumhalf, I'd be disappointed if he wasn't so dickish.
As far as his performance, it really depends who he plays with. Hook and Jones don't seem to work well with him, while Priestland and Phillips were an excellent partnership.
If we want a scrumhalf with quick distribution, Lloyd Williams is your man.

 

[Peat]

He is a scrumhalf, I'd be disappointed if he wasn't so dickish.
As far as his performance, it really depends who he plays with. Hook and Jones don't seem to work well with him, while Priestland and Phillips were an excellent partnership.
If we want a scrumhalf with quick distribution, Lloyd Williams is your man.

Last Lions tour Phillips was spot on with his distribution - which was with Stephen Jones as well. He can do it, which leads me to wonder why he doesn't all the time, and possibly point fingers at Gatland/the pack.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Last Lions tour Phillips was spot on with his distribution - which was with Stephen Jones as well. He can do it, which leads me to wonder why he doesn't all the time, and possibly point fingers at Gatland/the pack.

No lets not blame the Welsh pack ... he gets clean ball, he takes an age at the breakdown and his step back then pass is the source of the problem.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not so sure. I don't think there was any point in the tournament when we had clean, go-forward ball. It ended up being broken back row play with rucks taking years to be cleared out, followed by pedestrian scrum-half distribution, followed by a deep standing, slow 10 who never passed (what good is support lines when you're not gonna get the ball?), followed by Tindall. I'm not sure you can blame Ashton for not creating himself any opportunities when there wasn't any kind of foundation for any creative play to begin with.

If you watch the last two games he literally stood on his wing and waited - he never ever does that normally, always coming in field to try and get involved
In the Scotland game he didn't get the ball until about 60-odd minutes into it, yet in the earlier games was involved quite a lot
They'd obviously told him not to do that for the tighter games

 

[Peat]

No lets not blame the Welsh pack ... he gets clean ball, he takes an age at the breakdown and his step back then pass is the source of the problem.

The cleaness of the ball isn't the issue. The amount of protect he gets - or rather doesn't get - is. The first thing he has to do as a general rule is make sure he's not going to get clattered halfway through passing, although the protection looked better this WC.

I also think having more options in the backline is good for him, as otherwise he feels obliged to take the ball on himself too much. An in-form Roberts and North provided that. Again, that's a recent development for Wales (neither was an issue with the Lions).