2017 British & Irish Lions Squad Announcement

[saulan]

So it's one South African and one New Zealander in the squad. Are there any more SHers that I am missing (and I don't mean players who moved when they were in high school, I mean players who started their rugby careers in the SH after living here all there lives). A bit sad that we didn't get a second in the squad in WP Nel, granted I have no idea how he has played this year, nor his competitors in that position, but it would have been nice.

 

[MarkyH]

Not worth getting into a debate with you VC, but assume you are classing Farrell as a 12 not a 10?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yeah I'm hoping to hear that Launchburys wedding rumours were true.

I keep forgetting that Joe Marler snuck in there. Which means no Cian Healy. Yikes. Feel for him because he didn't get a full tour last time either.

 

[valley commando]

I wonder if the bad leaks were done to make us think on any sensible squad favouringly. I'm mostly feeling relief.

The two calls I really disagree on are Biggar over Ford/Russell (shouldn't even be playing for Wales) and Lawes over Launchbury (Lawes looked good during the 6N but only because his 2nd row/back row switching put Itoje through the ringer. Lawes asks too much of his team mates, and for a lineout operator we have Kruis.)

I'd also have found room for Robshaw though I get I'm in the minority on that one.

Counting the nations is missing the point imo, yes there are Welsh players living somewhat on incumbency but so are a few others like SOB. If you want to talk about there being more Scots you need to say which ones. I think J Gray and Russell could have gone but both would be very debatable. I'm not keen on Hamish Watson.

Biggar is better than the fragile Ford or the inconsistent Russell, physical 10's are needed against the AB

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Biggar is better than the fragile Ford or the inconsistent Russell, physical 10's are needed against the AB

You are absolutely, utterly, clueless.

 

[valley commando]

Not worth getting into a debate with you VC, but assume you are classing Farrell as a 12 not a 10?

Correct

 

[profitius]

Lol it's a bit of a comical selection if we're being honest. We knew he was going to lean towards Welsh players and he really didn't disappoint!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Some good rumours, some pants ones.

Generally happy. Kruis is lucky due to his lack of game time, which I guess means he's pencilled in for the test team. Why take that kind of punt of a dirt tracker?

 

[valley commando]

You are absolutely, utterly, clueless.

Oh right so you are better qualified than Gatland are you. Grow up son.

 

[ALJ]

Johnny Gray clearly should have gone ahead of George Kruis.
Watson ahead of Moriarty.
Russell ahead of Biggar

Then a few more marginals

Maitland could just as easily have gone as Nowell
Huw Jones deserved it more than Jonathan Davies (though so did Ringrose to be fair)
Arguably a Scottish scrum half over Youngs

But the only genuinely terrible decision is Bigger. It doesn't fit any type of plan that I can see. Is he just going to be a mid-week game buffer zone? Those games should still be an important opportunity to get our backs playing the expansive rugby we will need to stand toe to toe with the all-blacks. As I've said, we need to be able to score tries because the all-blacks certainly will.

Huw Jones is out for 5 months so he was never gonna make it.

I don't think Jonny Gray is ready personally - give him another 4 years though....

I would have taken Russell over Biggar but it's tight, you're getting something different and Biggar is better if you want to close a game out? Arguably we're not taking a genuinely creative F/H so there looks to be a game plan there.



Overall, I think the squad is OK - I know the Welsh look over represented but the ones chosen are probably worth their place (just in the case of AWJ, Davies, H/Penny & Biggar).

I still don't get T'eo being picked though - Don't get me wrong, I like him as a player but one of the best in the 4N????
Also think Daly is a lucky boy - Seems Gatland sees what Jones does - he has class for sure but I can't see he's made a strong enough case.

I'd say the unluckiest guy has to be Launchbury but the 2nd row was always gonna cause some consternation.

 

[ncurd]

I'm almost ******* laughing at the idea physicality will beat the AB's because when has that ever worked? Especially for Wales!

- - - Updated - - -

I'm almost ******* laughing at the idea physicality will beat the AB's because when has that ever worked? Especially for Wales!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Lol it's a bit of a comical selection if we're being honest. We knew he was going to lean towards Welsh players and he really didn't disappoint!

The moment you choose a coach who has charge of one of the four home nations, this is going to happen. It doesn't need to be deliberate, it's just an inevitable by-product of the fact that he knows some players better than others. It's the same reason we all rate our own club / national team players on average slightly more highly than outsiders do.

Gatland clearly goes in for a bit of pragmatism here in the sense that he's picking players who he believes can help him win. He's therefore more inclined to go with those he has more experience playing with. My objection to this would simply be that I think the lions has such a strong meritocratic tradition than selection has to come first, and the game-plan later.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I would have taken Russell over Biggar but it's tight, your just getting something different and Biggar is better if you want to close a game out?

I'm not sure championing a Welsh player as better at closing out games vs Tri nations opposition is a very good argument

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'm almost ******* laughing at the idea physicality will beat the AB's because when has that ever worked? Especially for Wales!

Mate just leave the anti-Welsh thing out now ... we know you hate us. Don't tar us all with the same brush.

I'm not sure championing a Welsh player as better at closing out games vs Tri nations opposition is a very good argument

Concur

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So breakdown by Birth
15 England: Cole, Daly, J.Davies, Farrell, George, Itoje, Joseph, Kruis, Lawes, Moriarty, North, Nowell, Sinckler, Watson, Youngs
8 Wales: Bigger, Halfpenny, AWJ, Owens, Tipuric, Warburton, Webb, Williams
7 Ireland: Best, Furlong, Henderson, Henshaw, McGrath, Murray, Sexton, O'Brien
2 New Zealand: Payne, T'eo
2 Tonga: Faletau, M.Vunipola
1 Austrlia: B.Vunipola
1 Scotland: Hogg
1 South Africa: Stander
1 USA: Seymour

By academy:
4 LLanelli: J.Davies, Owens, North, Williams
4 Leinster: Furlong, McGarth, O'Brien, Sexton
4 Ospreys: Bigger, Halfpenny, AWJ, Tipuric, Webb
4 Saracens: Farrell, George, Itoje, Kruis
2 Leicester Tigers: Cole, Youngs
2 London Irish: Joesph, Watson
2 Munster: Murray, O'Mahony,
2 Ulster: Henderson, Seymour
2 Wasps: Daly, B.Vunipola
1 Bristol: M.Vunipola
1 Bulls: Stander
1 Cardiff Blues: Warburton
1 Connacht: Henshaw
1 Dragons: Faletau,
1 Exeter: Nowell
1 Glasgow: Hogg
1 Glouscester: Moriarty
1 Harlequins: Sinckler
1 Newcastle Falcons: Best
1 Northampton Saints: Lawes
1 Waikato: Payne

 

[ALJ]

I'm not sure championing a Welsh player as better at closing out games vs Tri nations opposition is a very good argument

LOL, fair point - just edited that bit actually.

Assuming Sexton, Farrell and Biggar are the 10s then it looks like a game plan - none of them are what you'd call creative in the game breaking sense so...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Oh right so you are better qualified than Gatland are you. Grow up son.

Ok, so all coaches are 100% right 100% of the time?

Never criticised a coaching or selection decision before have you? Why is Gatlands record against the southern hemisphere so poor if he's always right?

A look back at your previous posts would prove highly amusing I'm sure but I can't bear to put myself through such torture.

 

[ncurd]

Lets be clear even if Sexton gets croaked when would you ever choose to bring on Biggar instead of moving Farrell to fly-half?

Hell even if Sexton was injured before a game you'd move Farrell there before Biggar.

So you have to ask why is Biggar there? He brings nothing as a bench player for impact and he won't start. The only time he'll even play in a test match is if both Farrell and Sexton get injured.

Even then against the AB's I'd rather Ford or Russell who are players who can create try scoring opportunities against the toughest of defences on the bench.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

It's not surprising, but I find it odd how Warburton can be chosen as captain considering he had to bottle the Wales captaincy due to it effecting his performance so much.

Only major gripes I have is Moriarity and Biggar really. Heaslip hasn't got much love on here, but he's a two time tourist and current world player of the year nominee that's just played 80 against the AB's and won. He's a skilful player which is more suited to playing down in NZ. Can't see how Launchbury didn't get in, however I do think Lawes and Henderson give us a bit of edge on attack.

 

[ncurd]

Mate just leave the anti-Welsh thing out now ... we know you hate us. Don't tar us all with the same brush.

Was I tarring you specifically or Welsh fans? I'm just pointing out that saying physicality will win the day by selecting average Welsh players who have repeatedly failed to beat NZ with that game plan is hardly a genius idea.