[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: Scotland vs. Ireland (04/02/2017)

[Groundhog]

The idea of Ringrose defending with Earls and Zebo doesn't fill me with huge amounts of confidence. Ringrose is by no means a bad defender but with weak enough lads like Zebo and Earls, defending being the weakest part of both their games (well maybe kicking for Earls but that's no way a compliment), I am worried. These wings who've had serious protection from Payne over the years are all of a sudden outside a guy playing his first tier 1 international at 13 who had a few bad reads in his last outing. You can bet the Scots will be trying to exploit this with their danger out wide. Trimble is quite the loss. Earls covering 13 is ****e too especially with McCloskey and Marshall doing more than Bowe up north, the guy isn't a centre.

What are you on about, have you watched Earls and Zebo defend recently? About as much as a cliché as people saying Heaslip has been in decline since around 2012. Complete nonsense. Zebo has become an incredbily good defender and made more try saving tackles than I've seen a player make this season. Also this crap about Earls' defence is only relevant at 13, he's well able to defend at wing and regularly dominates contact in his hits.

 

[munstermuffin]

The idea of Ringrose defending with Earls and Zebo doesn't fill me with huge amounts of confidence. Ringrose is by no means a bad defender but with weak enough lads like Zebo and Earls, defending being the weakest part of both their games (well maybe kicking for Earls but that's no way a compliment), I am worried. These wings who've had serious protection from Payne over the years are all of a sudden outside a guy playing his first tier 1 international at 13 who had a few bad reads in his last outing. You can bet the Scots will be trying to exploit this with their danger out wide. Trimble is quite the loss. Earls covering 13 is ****e too especially with McCloskey and Marshall doing more than Bowe up north, the guy isn't a centre.

If you checked it out statistically Zebo is defensively the best back 3 in Ireland this season with Earls 3rd. Like Kearney is 6th on list and I don't hear him mentioned. As I say you'll be selective in criticism and that is fair. Everyone will be different in opunions and again it was noted yesterday Keatley is covering 12 and Bowe was mentioned running 13 channel. Which is fair enough considering Bowe offers the flexibility. And I'd have no fear of 2 wings as I would say they've been solid and have given no reason to be suspect. Also I'd have no fear of Ringrose but Alpha if he's an issue like you say in a way doesn't that say he's not the talent he's made out to be? FWIW I think he's a super talent. More so my point is I don't think you've seen much of Munster latwly or just have serious dislike for them but if you gad seen them you'll have known both Earls and Zebo are flying it defensively. And like you played down John Ryan earlier when he's been 1 of form guys in Europe and scarily consistent. Not saying he should start or bench. Just more so it seems your opinion is on old views qnd not on actually watching. You may same with me on things which is fair enough

 

[CaledonCol]

VC announces his team and bench later today ( Thursday ) . Likely to be along these lines. The forwards : Dell Ford and Fargerson ; J Gray and R Gray ; Wilson Watson and Barclay . The bench will include Tim Swinson , 2nd row, who has been playing out of his skin recently , Fraser Brown at hooker and probably Gordon Reid at prop . The back row choices are really strong but the on form Straus can expect a call .
The backs select themselves with Hogg ; Maitland Scott ( or Jones) Dunbar and Seymour ; Russell and Laidlaw . Laidlaw as captain and kicker clings on but his distribution falls below Pyrgos and Price .In addition the bench should include Taylor , if fit , or Bennett . Weir will cover for Russell and Visser for the wings . Strength in depth and the making of a cracking game !

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What are you on about, have you watched Earls and Zebo defend recently? About as much as a cliché as people saying Heaslip has been in decline since around 2012. Complete nonsense. Zebo has become an incredbily good defender and made more try saving tackles than I've seen a player make this season. Also this crap about Earls' defence is only relevant at 13, he's well able to defend at wing and regularly dominates contact in his hits.

If you checked it out statistically Zebo is defensively the best back 3 in Ireland this season with Earls 3rd. Like Kearney is 6th on list and I don't hear him mentioned. As I say you'll be selective in criticism and that is fair. Everyone will be different in opunions and again it was noted yesterday Keatley is covering 12 and Bowe was mentioned running 13 channel. Which is fair enough considering Bowe offers the flexibility. And I'd have no fear of 2 wings as I would say they've been solid and have given no reason to be suspect. Also I'd have no fear of Ringrose but Alpha if he's an issue like you say in a way doesn't that say he's not the talent he's made out to be? FWIW I think he's a super talent. More so my point is I don't think you've seen much of Munster latwly or just have serious dislike for them but if you gad seen them you'll have known both Earls and Zebo are flying it defensively. And like you played down John Ryan earlier when he's been 1 of form guys in Europe and scarily consistent. Not saying he should start or bench. Just more so it seems your opinion is on old views qnd not on actually watching. You may same with me on things which is fair enough

Zebo's been at fullback and has been making some fantastic covering tackles, Earls has had Taute and been playing at a much lower level than international, Ringrose in his first real start in a tier 1 international is a different prospect. There's plenty of reason to worry considering last time out every in road was made by Aus down Zebo's channel and one of the few times Earls has had to defend an actual overlap this season he got himself sent off and lost out on beating NZ... The reason Munster are so good defensively is not because of their wings, Zebo's covering is part of it but not something you get to do as much at wing. Add to this that v Canada Schmidt had it set up that Earls would defend set pieces inside Ireland's 22 from fullback, which he did badly/didn't bother doing for Canada's 3rd try, and there's plenty of reason to be apprehensive of three guys who haven't proven their defence at international level. The fact one is replacing Trimble adds to this completely.

Muff - On Ringrose, no its not an issue, BOD got rinsed a few times early in his career, its to be expected and is why I want strong defenders outside him.
On Munster I've watched plenty, they're doing fantastically well against what has been put in front of them and that's why all the borderline calls are going there way, except maybe Scannell v Tracy which should go their way. When you consider that the best team they have beaten this year is Glasgow (x3, 4th in the pro 12, they beat Leinster and O's reserves) we should get on fine this weekend but if that was the team to be played against England or France who can really attack the wide channels and have a much better chance than Scotland do of matching us up front I wouldn't be comfortable.
On stats - I don't think that says a lot, Munster's defence has been the best of the provinces this season so that'll happen, its easy for a wing to defend when the defence is set wider than the attack and dominate contact while doing so. Its also based on what? Tackle % and points scored against them? Positioning, decision making and exit play won't come into them which are equally important.
On Ryan - he's a good player but we have three THPs at his level and I think he loses out to the other two marginally.

FWIW, I think they're the two guys to start this game, what worries me is that I don't think a slam is achievable umless Trimble comes back, Bowe finds form of old to displace Earls or Ringrose becomes a defensive God under Schmidt.

 

[munstermuffin]

Zebo's been at fullback and has been making some fantastic covering tackles, Earls has had Taute and been playing at a much lower level than international, Ringrose in his first real start in a tier 1 international is a different prospect. There's plenty of reason to worry considering last time out every in road was made by Aus down Zebo's channel and one of the few times Earls has had to defend an actual overlap this season he got himself sent off and lost out on beating NZ... The reason Munster are so good defensively is not because of their wings, Zebo's covering is part of it but not something you get to do as much at wing. Add to this that v Canada Schmidt had it set up that Earls would defend set pieces inside Ireland's 22 from fullback, which he did badly/didn't bother doing for Canada's 3rd try, and there's plenty of reason to be apprehensive of three guys who haven't proven their defence at international level. The fact one is replacing Trimble adds to this completely.

Muff - On Ringrose, no its not an issue, BOD got rinsed a few times early in his career, its to be expected and is why I want strong defenders outside him.
On Munster I've watched plenty, they're doing fantastically well against what has been put in front of them and that's why all the borderline calls are going there way, except maybe Scannell v Tracy which should go their way. When you consider that the best team they have beaten this year is Glasgow (x3, 4th in the pro 12, they beat Leinster and O's reserves) we should get on fine this weekend but if that was the team to be played against England or France who can really attack the wide channels and have a much better chance than Scotland do of matching us up front I wouldn't be comfortable.
On stats - I don't think that says a lot, Munster's defence has been the best of the provinces this season so that'll happen, its easy for a wing to defend when the defence is set wider than the attack and dominate contact while doing so. Its also based on what? Tackle % and points scored against them? Positioning, decision making and exit play won't come into them which are equally important.
On Ryan - he's a good player but we have three THPs at his level and I think he loses out to the other two marginally.

FWIW, I think they're the two guys to start this game, what worries me is that I don't think a slam is achievable umless Trimble comes back, Bowe finds form of old to displace Earls or Ringrose becomes a defensive God under Schmidt.

Earls has made some superb tackles 1on 1 and interceptions on wing. If you've watched Munster you'd know. As I said if you watched Earls closely he hasn't being caught out and positionally has been superb this season. If this were it vs NZ I'd even be ok. Only issue I'd have with Earls this season is he seems to struggle aerially. Not regards positionally but more so on if someone competes his height is issue. Other than that I'd argue he is best of back 3 defending as a back 3 guy. Zebo and Kearney arent great 1 on 1 tacklers. And just on it Taute has been caught a bit lately and Earls saved him.
On Ryan issue it was more regards Saying earlier Moore outplayed him and Bealham. No issue with Bealham and Furlong ahead.
As I said it's ok you don't rate Earls but fact is he's been as solid as Trimble and much better than Bowe will ever get back to.

I'd even argue they've never let Ireland down before so there isn't much basis really. Also Earls red vs Glasgow wasn't overlap so not sure what you were watching.

Just on it vs Aus Earls was shown to be our best attacker and made most tackles. And vs Canada he missed no tackle. Also for Munster he's missed hardly any tackle.
As I said I understand you don't rate him and think that means you'll songle him. I've done it myself

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Earls has made some superb tackles 1on 1 and interceptions on wing. If you've watched Munster you'd know. As I said if you watched Earls closely he hasn't being caught out and positionally has been superb this season. If this were it vs NZ I'd even be ok. Only issue I'd have with Earls this season is he seems to struggle aerially. Not regards positionally but more so on if someone competes his height is issue. Other than that I'd argue he is best of back 3 defending as a back 3 guy. Zebo and Kearney arent great 1 on 1 tacklers. And just on it Taute has been caught a bit lately and Earls saved him.
On Ryan issue it was more regards Saying earlier Moore outplayed him and Bealham. No issue with Bealham and Furlong ahead.
As I said it's ok you don't rate Earls but fact is he's been as solid as Trimble and much better than Bowe will ever get back to.

I'd even argue they've never let Ireland down before so there isn't much basis really. Also Earls red vs Glasgow wasn't overlap so not sure what you were watching

I've watched Munster, they haven't been caught out and its not because of Keith Earls... Again, we're talking about guys who's biggest wins have been against 4th in the pro12 and were beaten by 5th in the premiership, the step up to a level they both struggled with at times in the Autumn is what worries me because in terms of defence Earls < Trimble and Ringrose < Payne and the level they have been doing well at is far below that of international - RR incl.

"Moore has outplayed Bealham and Ryan this season" - Things The Alpha Bro has not said on this thread.

Never let Ireland down before? Low hanging fruit this but Julien Savea would think otherwise...

It was an overlap, it was a three on two and Earls tried to make a dominant tackle to break their momentum, he got his timing all wrong and rather than riding the challenge he ****ed Brown on his head.

You can take this as a slight against Munster, its really not, I'm as much worried about my favourite player as I am Earls, neither are proven defenders at this level without Jared Payne.

 

[munstermuffin]

I've watched Munster, they haven't been caught out and its not because of Keith Earls... Again, we're talking about guys who's biggest wins have been against 4th in the pro12 and were beaten by 5th in the premiership, the step up to a level they both struggled with at times in the Autumn is what worries me because in terms of defence Earls < Trimble and Ringrose < Payne and the level they have been doing well at is far below that of international - RR incl.

"Moore has outplayed Bealham and Ryan this season" - Things The Alpha Bro has not said on this thread.

Never let Ireland down before? Low hanging fruit this but Julien Savea would think otherwise...

It was an overlap, it was a three on two and Earls tried to make a dominant tackle to break their momentum, he got his timing all wrong and rather than riding the challenge he ****ed Brown on his head.

You can take this as a slight against Munster, its really not, I'm as much worried about my favourite player as I am Earls, neither are proven defenders at this level without Jared Payne.

But thats like saying who have Leinster beat or Ulster? As they've beaten nobody of significance either bar Ulster beating Clermont
So on your theory Kearney should be out too. As he has struggled more than 2. Correct and at club level.
Ok you said Moore was much better player than other 2.
Again Earls stood up and stepped in to make tackle and drove and Brown took dump. There was a Munster man back but outside and wasn't really overlap as Earls stepped in. As I said it's clear you don't rate him and will have a view accordingly regardless so I will accept. Also I'd accept your ratings defensively although Ringrose actually has much worst stats than Earls. But again 13 is different. Trimble and Payne are awesome defenders but not sure what point is as both aren't fit.

And yeah Savea did damage but I could name Kearney, Jackson, Murray and Bowe and give examples too. As I said you say you watch Munster. Of you do fair enough butbit seems you watch so just to single guys. As I said you can only beat whats in front of you.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But thats like saying who have Leinster beat or Ulster? As they've beaten nobody of significance either bar Ulster beating Clermont
So on your theory Kearney should be out too. As he has struggled more than 2. Correct and at club level.

Leinster's 1sts have beaten 1st and 2nd in the pro 12 and 3rd and 4th in the Top 14, getting BP's in 3 of those, negative results when we haven't had the kids out have been a loss and a draw to France's 3rd and 4th. Not that that matters as I don't think anyone should be out considering I said "FWIW, I think they're the two guys to start this game"

Ok you said Moore was much better player than other 2.

No, I said "Moore is a better player than Ryan and is a regular starter and performer in a team lying top of the Premiership and in the European QF's, I don't see much competition there despite how good Ryan has been." Bealham was never mentioned who I think is the best of the three but I do think if Moore was playing in Ireland that there would be little competition because Schmidt is now valuing more mobile players around the park over set piece specialists. Please read what I write before replying because this is the second example in this post alone that you clearly haven't.

Trimble and Payne are awesome defenders but not sure what point is as both aren't fit.

That's exactly my point, we are a lot weaker defensively with this line up. This all started when I said "The idea of Ringrose defending with Earls and Zebo doesn't fill me with huge amounts of confidence." I never called for anyone to be dropped or siad that Schmidt has done anything wrong just that it worries me that we have a much weaker defensive set up than we had in Autumn.

As I said you can only beat whats in front of you.

Again, part of my point, Munster are flying but haven't really faced a great team and yet I am expected to trust the defence of two lads, who have never brought it consistently in green, for playing Munster despite this? I don't trust Ringrose despite him having had a very defensively sound European campaign and bringing it in the pro 12 too apart from a costly error or two in Castres and he's done it against some higher calibre teams.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I am calling for no change in the starting team but I'm worried that if the Scots get regular chances to attack the RR - Zebo and RR - Earls channels this game won't be as comfortable as Autumn form would suggest it should be.

 

[CaledonCol]

Scotland Team to play Ireland announced :

15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 48 caps; 13 tries, 3 pens, 74 points
14. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 26 caps; 5 tries, 25 points
13. Huw Jones (Stormers) – 3 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 5 caps, 25 points
11. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 31 caps, 14 tries, 70 points
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 2 tries, 3 cons, 1 pen, 19 points
9. Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) CAPTAIN – 56 caps; 4 tries, 74 cons, 134 pens, 570 points
1. Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 3 caps
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 60 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 28 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
6. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 23 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps, 1 try, 5 points
8. Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Substitutes:
16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 102 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
17. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
19. Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps
20. John Barclay (Scarlets) – 55 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 caps
22. Duncan Weir (Edinburgh Rugby) – 23 caps; 2 tries, 7 cons, 10 pens, 1 drop, 57 points
23. Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps, 6 tries, 30 points

 

[Goodey]

Swinson a bit stiff to miss out. I guess they are worried about not having enough experience in the pack, so they've kept Ritchie.

 

[munstermuffin]

Leinster's 1sts have beaten 1st and 2nd in the pro 12 and 3rd and 4th in the Top 14, getting BP's in 3 of those, negative results when we haven't had the kids out have been a loss and a draw to France's 3rd and 4th. Not that that matters as I don't think anyone should be out considering I said "FWIW, I think they're the two guys to start this game"

No, I said "Moore is a better player than Ryan and is a regular starter and performer in a team lying top of the Premiership and in the European QF's, I don't see much competition there despite how good Ryan has been." Bealham was never mentioned who I think is the best of the three but I do think if Moore was playing in Ireland that there would be little competition because Schmidt is now valuing more mobile players around the park over set piece specialists. Please read what I write before replying because this is the second example in this post alone that you clearly haven't.


That's exactly my point, we are a lot weaker defensively with this line up. This all started when I said "The idea of Ringrose defending with Earls and Zebo doesn't fill me with huge amounts of confidence." I never called for anyone to be dropped or siad that Schmidt has done anything wrong just that it worries me that we have a much weaker defensive set up than we had in Autumn.


Again, part of my point, Munster are flying but haven't really faced a great team and yet I am expected to trust the defence of two lads, who have never brought it consistently in green, for playing Munster despite this? I don't trust Ringrose despite him having had a very defensively sound European campaign and bringing it in the pro 12 too apart from a costly error or two in Castres and he's done it against some higher calibre teams.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I am calling for no change in the starting team but I'm worried that if the Scots get regular chances to attack the RR - Zebo and RR - Earls channels this game won't be as comfortable as Autumn form would suggest it should be.

But equally you will agree Leinster haven't beaten the best Top 14 3rd and 4th place teams. In terms of strongest string. Like it's selective argument. But the argument is these guys have defended comfortably against International class wings weekly. Like even when loosing all you've to do is look at Munsters try conceded record. 3 tries in Europe is scary. Like Leinster beat Munster but was it strongest team? Earls played 13, O'Mahony wasn't fit, Munster had Sweetnam very raw get caught out twice but he learnt hugely from it.
Add in week before Europe and I'm sure neither side was full throttle. Nagle played for ye so ye weren't full either.
Defensively we loose a bit but overall no as we gain try creativeness and natural scorers.

FWIW I thing regardless of team it won't be as comfortable. We aren't a side who like Murrayfield. Our performance is always scrappy there.

 

[Saint4805]

Guess Huw Jones must have proved his fitness in training. Matt Scott unlucky to miss out given his form. I'd expect Bennett to come on at some stage given Jones lack of game time.
Not disappointed to see Strauss in the back row as his physicality and carrying ability will be needed.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ireland as expected except Donnacha Ryan is out

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

[FONT=&quot]IRELAND XV[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15. R Kearney
14. Earls
13. Ringrose
12. Henshaw
11. Zebo
10. Jackson
9 Murray[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. McGrath
2. Best (c)
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Henderson
6. Stander
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Replacements: Healy, N Scannell, Ryan, Dillane, van der Flier, Marmion, Keatley, Bowe.


Is Ryan injured or did he lose out to the more modern locks? I think I've voiced my concerns and criticism sufficiently, Henderson with Dillane backing up is a good call imo.[/FONT]

 

[munstermuffin]

Ryan was injured with medial ligament

 

[munstermuffin]

Also huge kudos to Niall Scannell. Well deserved.
And John Ryan getting massive reward for massive season

 

[Groundhog]

Not an ideal team with a few guys with limited gametime coming in. Tommy Bowe is a bit of a headscratcher for me as he has neither age nor form or impact on his side, but here's hoping he has a fairytale season to send him off. Very happy for Ryan and Scannell. Shame about Ryan being out, but Henderson and Toner has good balance to it, and Henderson could apply serious pressure. That scrum should be weaponised.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Reading it was a case of Ryan 'not training fully' which has kept him out. Wouldn't be surprised with a 'Henderson played very well' next week. Remember Hendo and Dillane got in ahead of Ryan after he faded pretty early against NZ in Dublin. I think this could be Joe's preferred second row unit.

 

[munstermuffin]

Reading it was a case of Ryan 'not training fully' which has kept him out. Wouldn't be surprised with a 'Henderson played very well' next week. Remember Hendo and Dillane got in ahead of Ryan after he faded pretty early against NZ in Dublin. I think this could be Joe's preferred second row unit.

Thing is Ryan was sizzled as he played first 3 games in AIs he didn't get break after Chicago.

Big issue is Henderson hasn't been good as a lock. His game there is still to be decided. Dillane must be rust. And Scots have great form in 2nd row.

 

[Peat]

Not an ideal team with a few guys with limited gametime coming in. Tommy Bowe is a bit of a headscratcher for me as he has neither age nor form or impact on his side, but here's hoping he has a fairytale season to send him off. Very happy for Ryan and Scannell. Shame about Ryan being out, but Henderson and Toner has good balance to it, and Henderson could apply serious pressure. That scrum should be weaponised.

The big plus to Bowe is at least he's got the experience to not eff up (pace concerns aside) in a number of positions if needed. No small thing given that's not the most experienced back line, particularly if you managed to injure Murray.

That's a serious carrying pack by the way. Not often you look at a pack and think "Well, Jack McGrath's one of the worst three carriers there".

Be interesting to see how Fagerson goes for the Scots.

Finally... this should be the start of the Jackson for Lions 10 bandwagon, but I've got a feeling he'll stuff up. Not sure why.