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[2019 Six Nations] England vs France (10/02/2019)

Discussion in '2019 Guinness Six Nations' started by TRF_Olyy, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Xsypher

    Xsypher Senior Member

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    Being spikey and essentially "hard" is different from being petulant, Johnson was the former but not the latter. I like aggression and physicality, I like a bit of niggle on the ground and getting under the opposition skin.

    To your point I think Sinckler is the opposite of an Alpha male, he can't control his temper, he's stupid and doesn't know when to rein it in and doesn't seem to actually have any respect for the officials or the game. According to other players - including club mate Marler - he is also a faux hard man and can't actually back it up.

    Personally, I find that irritating and an unwelcome move towards an almost football-esque attitude. Keep the niggle and hostility, lose the stupidity and disrespect of the game.
     
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  3. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    You obviously never watched Martin Johnson play if you think he respected the officials or was never petulant. Sinkler is what he is, he is the player he is because of his attitude and I like him as a player.
     
  4. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref Senior Member

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    Firstly, I don’t care what POM said, that’s the Irish fans’ concern. I was just thrilled because it showed quite how badly we’d rattled the Irish.

    Secondly, calling another player a rude name doesn’t get you dragged in front of the ref, doesn’t get you penalised and a talking to.

    Thirdly, it’s not just about the slap, it’s about the lack of respect to the ref. Forget moral questions about the integrity of the game, ******* off the ref is a monumentally stupid thing to do from a pure self-interest perspective.
     
  5. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    In sinckler's defence there is a clip showing the French player slapping him on the head first - which is what sinckler was saying.
    It still would have been a penalty for retaliation/making the situation escalate, but as Dick Cock once said about Genge: I'd rather have to pull my forwards away from a fight than push them into one.
     
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  6. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker Senior Member

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    If you've got edge it can be calmed down and focussed over time. If you haven't got it you can't grow it.

    We need spiky abrasive characters and the more the merrier. But there are lines that can't be crossed. Johnson etc were of their time; they'd still be abrasive and aggressive today, but it would have to be in a different way.
     
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  7. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    On your second point, it does get you dragged in front of a ref and you can get penalised, in Dylan Hartleys case it can end up with you being sent off if the ref thinks said comment is aimed at him.

    On your third point he did actually apologise to Nigel Owens I believe after he talking too...
     
  8. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Yeah, stupid ******* ***** like Sink are generally good to have*, they can make bad situations worse sure but more often than not the added aggression they bring to the game helps. They're the guys who are going to get under the oppositions skin, I don't think you'll find many opposition fans who like POM, Healy, Sink, Hines, Johnson etc... but every team needs players like that, the Lions for example!

    *As long as they're forwards, backs like that are too easily distracted and nullified.
     
  9. Xsypher

    Xsypher Senior Member

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    Do you know what petulant means? It's not the same as just being grumpy or bad-tempered. Besides, just because I don't know who Mark Johnson is, doesn't mean I can't comment on his style of play.

    Anyway, I'm not saying that Kyle *Sinckler* (have you even watched him play if you can't spell his name?) is a bad player. He is in fact a very good player, I'm not even saying he should stop winding the opposition up. I'm just saying that he doesn't need to have tantrums and disrespect the referee to maintain that level of play.

    Edit: also to your point on Genge, I don't think they are similar. Genge is genuinely one of the toughest blokes going, had a brutal upbringing and actually has shown a very impressive level of maturity in controlling his temper whilst still being very physical and abrasive.
     
  10. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    Mark Johnson?
     
  11. Xsypher

    Xsypher Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    also if you want to see petulant...

     
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  13. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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    Max 22 if team does lose a game.
    Min 20 points from 5 wins and 3 BPs for a grandslam = 23
     
  14. Xsypher

    Xsypher Senior Member

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    I still don't think you know what petulance means...it's not childish to take a stand or face-up to the Hakka or refuse to give your opponent a psychological edge. In this example Johnson still walks Mary McAleese down the row and politely introduces all of his players - all he does is refuse to have his team be moved around by the operations manager. That's good leadership. What part of sinckler refusing to look the ref in the eye, hiding his face in his shirt or his constant whining about "being hit first" is comparable to the greatest English rugby captain in history making a stand on behalf of his whole team in a hostile away environment?

    In case you need further reference, another good example petulance is having a joke go over your head and disliking someone's comment as a result. Have a nice rest of your Monday though x
     
  15. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    Oh I got the joke it just wasnt funny and I dislike people using spelling mistakes to act like a ******** which is what you have done. You have a nice Monday too.
     
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  16. ALJ

    ALJ Senior Member

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    Me too tbh, I like a bit of spike in players especially the younger ones.

    To my mind It's far easier to calm down an aggressive player than it is to get a placid one worked up.

    Just think of how good Sheridan could have been with a bit more dog in him.
     
  17. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    Very true. He was a strong lad who used to be just a bit to placid, although I don't think he would have helped him when this happened...

     
  18. Nudger

    Nudger Senior Member

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    I thought o'mahony was far worse last week with his back to sinks and the ref
     
  19. Nudger

    Nudger Senior Member

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    Unfortunately your not aloud to punch people any more Johnson would be a card waiting to happen
     
  20. Xsypher

    Xsypher Senior Member

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    I agree that O'Mahony was also pretty pathetic and clearly lost his head. But, he's Irish, he doesn't represent our country and I don't care if he riles up the ref.

    I like that Sinckler got under his skin. My issue is when he can't draw the line between gamesmanship and being a twat. It shouldn't be a hard concept for them: **** off the opposition, but don't **** off the ref. It works - ask the All Blacks...
     
  21. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    I loved what POM did. Its been perceived as a victory for the English because of the result but in reality he wasn't taking **** from Sinkler and bought Ireland much needed time to regroup having just won a penalty and we went on to score next.
     
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