A Political Thread pt. 2

[Gavin]

Presumably they'll have Harris as front runner for next term? No way Biden's got another 4 in him

I was going to say I can't remember seeing Harris...ever, since becoming VP but maybe that's by design - don't have her associated with the lockdowns and tribalism over COVID/undoing trump's work so she's clean by the time the voting starts

The Return of the Bern

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Its a complex question Britain was active in the sense they had to convince the US to go through the UN, which fell apart when the French said they'd veto anything. That meant we worked with US to build the ultimately flawed case for war as we committed to support them. Philosophically Blair saw Britain as the bridge between US and the EU and at the time thought to not support the US would cause irrepable political harm. Add in Hussein literally committing genocide totalling in 250,000 deaths and the fact the intelligence community thought he had WMD (flawed intelligence of a huge magitude but they genuinely thought theyd find it) the case for his removal wasn't high. The complete **** up was post invasion planning more than anything else.

I just have an issue with an idea Blair was warmonger who deliberately went to out to kill arabs rather than a guy who made an awful set of decisions with good intent that any other PM would not of made. He wasn't a saint either as he could of taken the French approach. But its a middle ground between the two rather than "should locked up in the hague", "only made a minor mistake".

As someone who accosted the late Robin Cook in the streets of a Midlothian town as this was unfolding (before he resigned as Foreign Minister), I do not agree.

Awful set of decisions. Yes. Good intent? Not a chance. This was a largely commercial and geo-political decision with more than a hint of vengeance by the US. Blair turned a blind eye to comparable or worse atrocities than those committed by Hussein, so that cannot be considered a primary motivation in the decision making. Blair was elected to represent the UK electorate, not to be a senator in the 51st state. He wilfully and repeatedly lied to the public in a desperate attempt to bomb the hell out of a country incapable of defending itself to sustained, imprecise aerial assault in order that a puppet regime could be installed.

His foreign secretary had to resign out of conscience and even his own defence secretary at the time, just yesterday, informed us that he was instructed by Blair's office to destroy legal advice that the war could be construed as illegal, and the defence secretary found this instruction so reprehensible he couldn't carry it out. Sadly spineless Hoon lacked the principles of Cook.

Geoff Hoon: I was told to burn memo that said Iraq invasion could be illegal

Tony Blair’s defence chief points to cover-up after he claims he was instructed to destroy secret note on war

www.telegraph.co.uk

Blair confesses that he utilised that thoroughly rational diplomatic tactic of praying with Bush to their deity of choice before deciding to take action that would extinguish half a million lives (including 182 Britons). Yes, the US clearly brought the motivation and firepower to the table, and may potentially have acted alone. But Blair consistently deceived the public and suppressed information that contradicted his position in a concerted, premeditated and energetic campaign over a number of months to facilitate the US's bloody plans and lend them an air of credibility.

Therefore I find it hard to consider that Blair was in any sense a well meaning bumbling fool innocently helping out a chum to defeat a beastly foe. I consider it absolutely reprehensible conduct and thoroughly deserving of war crimes investigation. If I saw Blair in the street I fear I wouldn't be able to restrain myself to a few stern words. A horrific human being in my book regardless of what other things he may have implemented domestically (NI peace, minimum wage, devolution). Some acts are so inhuman they overshadow the rest of a man's career, and rightly so.

 

[McTallshort]

Its whataboutism over Afghanistan of course as with most things like that forgetting it was a failure of multiple administrations.

True but the shameful withdrawl was on him.

 

[ncurd]

True but the shameful withdrawl was on him.

Trumps plan, its on both.

 

[McTallshort]

Its a complex question Britain was active in the sense they had to convince the US to go through the UN, which fell apart when the French said they'd veto anything. That meant we worked with US to build the ultimately flawed case for war as we committed to support them. Philosophically Blair saw Britain as the bridge between US and the EU and at the time thought to not support the US would cause irrepable political harm. Add in Hussein literally committing genocide totalling in 250,000 deaths and the fact the intelligence community thought he had WMD (flawed intelligence of a huge magitude but they genuinely thought theyd find it) the case for his removal wasn't high. The complete **** up was post invasion planning more than anything else.

I just have an issue with an idea Blair was warmonger who deliberately went to out to kill arabs rather than a guy who made an awful set of decisions with good intent that any other PM would not of made. He wasn't a saint either as he could of taken the French approach. But its a middle ground between the two rather than "should locked up in the hague", "only made a minor mistake".

He got spoilt with Kosovo, a quick military success against a bad enemy proved very intoxicating. He thought he would get the same in Iraq while helping the Americans and it would would further his ambition and reputation.

 

[McTallshort]

Trumps plan, its on both.

Trump didnt order the American contractors to down tools overnight and leaving the Afgan airforce grounded which was key to the Talibans victory. This was completely down to Biden

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I have zero sympathy with Djokovic or his father, but thought it worth commenting on here as a prime example of a seemingly very limited news story that is actually a part of something much larger. The utterances are consistent with various themes pushed by the Serbian government (with Russian support and sympathy, and possibly Chinese support given their increasing involvement in places like Hungary and Serbia). These are essential things to know for anyone with an interest in NATO relations with Russia or world politics in general. Out of respect to posters on an international forum I will try to be as neutral as possible.

Day 1 of this rant by Mr Djokovic Snr began with the NATO contribution to the Kosovo war of 1998. A war with convicted war criminals on both sides but where the 'West' intervened against the Serbs. I make no judgment on the right or wrongs of that. It was a less dubious decision than Iraq and I'm still not settled in my mind if it was right or an 'unpardonable folly' as a future Scottish First Minister (and current RT news employee) would call it at the time. Some kind of intervention of the peacekeeping variety was almost certainly required and justified, but something more forceful took place. The term 'genocide' was bandied around by NATO allies at the time of Kosovo, perhaps not entirely without justification, which is why Putin always speaks of 'preventing genocide' before invading somewhere. He considers NATO action in Kosovo was intentionally selective against a Russian ally and that it has set a precedent for Russia to represent the interests of Russian speakers outside of Russia and 'liberate' them (Crimea, Abkhazia, Donbass, Transnistria). It is also considered grounds for Russia to represent the interests of their historic allies, like Serbia.

Once that is understood, the rest, such as the two recent new items below and the tennis rant become more understandable. Djokovic is permitting himself to be used as a propoganda tool in Russo-US territorial disputes, as bizarre as that sounds. Most likely his parents have been coached in precisely what to say in order to play to the government's political base back home. There is an effort to generate the feel of war time atmosphere to increase support for the Serbian government and potentially to justify the dissolution of Bosnia. Just wait for the inevitable words 'preventing genocide'.

Hopefully this is just more sabre rattling to remind NATO that Russia has various cards to play (gas supply/prices, Serbia, Ukraine, maybe North Korean hypersonic missile tech (see yesterday's news)) should the US wish to pursue a robust policy in Ukraine and Belarus.

Serbs vote to start quitting Bosnia's key institutions in secessionist move

Serb lawmakers voted on Friday to start work on pulling their autonomous Serb Republic out of Bosnia's armed forces, judiciary and tax system, in a non-binding motion meant to pave the way for secession from Bosnia.

www.reuters.com

Serbian president praises Russian arms shipment amid regional tensions

President Aleksandar Vučić welcomed a shipment of anti-tank missiles from Russia, yet another delivery of several from the aspiring EU member's Eastern ally.

www.euronews.com

It is a very interesting time to study international affairs. Anything is possible for our species in the next 20 years and possibly the next 20 months. Glorious successes, more localised proxy wars (a la Syria and Donbass) or self imposed near extinction (not yet likely). You'll learn precisely nothing about any of it in the myopic mass market UK, US (and Scottish) press.

 

[Yulia]

I've been to Abkhazia twice,just a couple of years after the war (I was a child and was there for a tourist reason,on holidays) what a bombed paradise! It was incredibly beautiful in tourist "save" places there (Abkhazia was one of the most beautiful places I've ever been to) but I'll never forget my impressions from a non-tourist Abkhazia, destroyed buildings and people were still living in those buildings! Also, I have a couple of Abkhazian friends living here in Poland, one of them saw the death of his own father (who was killed by Georgians) when he was a little boy. It's even terrible to imagine such things!
But would definitely recommend to visit Abkhazia, especially its' caves and tourist places!
After Abkhazia we used to visit Crimea on holidays,by the way. Also an amazing nature! I remember that Crimeans that we met asked us to call them Russians and not Ukrainians even that time (and it sounded weird for me). And then there was this annexation.. controversial choice. But I understand every side: Crimeans, Ukrainians, Russians who supported it and those Russians who are against it.
Sometimes it's difficult to say who's right or wrong in such conflicts/wars..every side has it's own truth.
Now scary things happen in Kazakhstan..and it's not yet the end in Bielarus, I'm afraid.

 

[Reiser99]

Djokovic saga could end up backfiring a bit on Australia.

Djokovic stay highlights refugee concerns at Melbourne detention hotel

People held at the detention hotel have complained of mouldy food and poor conditions.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Djokovic saga could end up backfiring a bit on Australia.

Djokovic stay highlights refugee concerns at Melbourne detention hotel

People held at the detention hotel have complained of mouldy food and poor conditions.

www.bbc.co.uk

But he can leave it whenever he wants until Monday. Just on a flight out of Australia and not play at the AO. But he won't. Those refugees on the other hand don't have a choice.

Djokovic court case: Could he argue his way to the Open?

How did Djokovic breach Australia's laws and could he argue his way into the Australian Open?

www.bbc.co.uk

Quite interesting.

 

[Reiser99]

But he can leave it whenever he wants until Monday. Just on a flight out of Australia and not play at the AO. But he won't. Those refugees on the other hand don't have a choice.

Djokovic court case: Could he argue his way to the Open?

How did Djokovic breach Australia's laws and could he argue his way into the Australian Open?

www.bbc.co.uk

Quite interesting.

Oh definitely. I'm waiting to see something on the lines of Djokovic shouldn't be put in such an awful place or something similar, because the response should be, why should those refugees also be put in such an awful place?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Oh definitely. I'm waiting to see something on the lines of Djokovic shouldn't be put in such an awful place or something similar, because the response should be, why should those refugees also be put in such an awful place?

That is the question people are asking

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[ncurd]

Dies anyone know who runs no10cat? Its a parody account clearly but some the links with journos suggest it might be one of them or something like the ilk.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Dies anyone know who runs no10cat? Its a parody account clearly but some the links with journos suggest it might be one of them or something like the ilk.

Quick Google unfortunately does not shed any light on who does.

One of those better unknown for parody reasons. The thought of the cat actually being the one who does make me laugh.

But seriously it could well be a few individuals run the account.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Quick Google unfortunately does not shed any light on who does.

One of those better unknown for parody reasons. The thought of the cat actually being the one who does make me laugh.

But seriously it could well be a few individuals run the account.

Imagine if Johnson himself was running it...

 

[Gavin]

Imagine if Johnson himself was running it...

It's run by Jeremy Corbyn's cat, El Gato

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I've been to Abkhazia twice,just a couple of years after the war (I was a child and was there for a tourist reason,on holidays) what a bombed paradise! It was incredibly beautiful in tourist "save" places there (Abkhazia was one of the most beautiful places I've ever been to) but I'll never forget my impressions from a non-tourist Abkhazia, destroyed buildings and people were still living in those buildings! Also, I have a couple of Abkhazian friends living here in Poland, one of them saw the death of his own father (who was killed by Georgians) when he was a little boy. It's even terrible to imagine such things!
But would definitely recommend to visit Abkhazia, especially its' caves and tourist places!
After Abkhazia we used to visit Crimea on holidays,by the way. Also an amazing nature! I remember that Crimeans that we met asked us to call them Russians and not Ukrainians even that time (and it sounded weird for me). And then there was this annexation.. controversial choice. But I understand every side: Crimeans, Ukrainians, Russians who supported it and those Russians who are against it.
Sometimes it's difficult to say who's right or wrong in such conflicts/wars..every side has it's own truth.
Now scary things happen in Kazakhstan..and it's not yet the end in Bielarus, I'm afraid.

Yes. Crimea is a mess because on one hand it seems Kruschev just arbitrarily moved it from Russia to Ukraine at a time it had a Russian majority population, but on the other hand he (and his successors) reportedly parachuted in lots of Russians to settle in Crimea (and in Baltic states) to make the USSR more secure. Plus the destruction of some 1500+ nukes by Ukraine at the fall of the USSR was conditional on Russia recognising Ukrainian boundaries as per the Budapest memorandum signed by Russia. So on balance, I think Russia should have at the very least offered 1,500 nukes from its collection to Ukraine in return for reclaiming Crimea.

But yes, not a clear one. Neither is Abkhazia, that definitely also had two sides to the coin as the Georgian leader at the time lacked any sort of wisdom and an EU report even concluded Georgia contributed to the conflict.

Donbas I consider a travesty I cannot justify and if anything further happens in Bosnia to try and destroy its existence that would also be hard to justify compared to making efforts to get along. Conflict destroys lives and economies and having military outposts and a large military costs a fortune that can be spent on your people to improve their lives. The reasons we fight now globally are every bit as trivial and idiotic as they were in the 19th and early 20th century.

Hopefully peace will win out under our new Orangutan overlords.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The epic struggle for America’s soul is just getting started

A year after the Capitol insurrection, democracy is still under attack from Republicans in thrall to Trump’s lies. What is to be done to avoid a descent into violence?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bada-Bing!]