A Political Thread

[die_mole]

@unrated inside stellenbosch, Paarl, and Cape Town I thought I was inside a nice American city

You only notice when you see the townships between the cities that there is large amount of poverty.

The only thing that really stuck out to me was how expensive data was.

I got pickpocketed at a club but that happens all the time in the United States. I'd say 99% of the time I felt as safe or safer than I would here.

Technologically things are about the same.

 

[DumbAmerican]

@unrated inside stellenbosch, Paarl, and Cape Town I thought I was inside a nice American city

You only notice when you see the townships between the cities that there is large amount of poverty.

The only thing that really stuck out to me was how expensive data was.

I got pickpocketed at a club but that happens all the time in the United States. I'd say 99% of the time I felt as safe or safer than I would here.

Technologically things are about the same.

Since you called me out for lying (which I didn't), the US is famous for not having pickpockets. Americans are famous as being marks for pickpocketing in foreign countries. I did a Google search just to make sure before posting this, and everything says that crime is dead in the US. I've been thinking it over in the back of my mind, and I have a couple of theories why this happened. I'm trying to imagine where you're hanging out to get pickpocketed all the time. I'm not sure if I've even ever met anybody who's been pickpocketed in the US before.

Be a man and stare down a gun while you had over your wallet. It makes for a better story.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

 

[DumbAmerican]

Great deal with Mexico.

A large part of the fatal NAFTA loophole which allowed final assembly in Mexico of mostly finished products is now closed. So, that new BMW plant opening in Mexico is going to have to figure out new local supply chains if they want to ship into the US. China was notorious for using this loophole to get around US trade restrictions.

The Mexican government is required to pass a whole bunch of new labor laws and a large % of workers on products to be shipped into the US must now be paid a higher wage.

Canada out in the cold because they kept bringing up gender equality stuff and the like when we tried three party negotiations.

Cyrstia Freeland - Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister
"The European Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom and I call each other 'sisters in trade.' We sign our emails 'hugs.' We sometimes send each other smiley faces in particularly difficult moments."

Jesus, Canada. Guess sending emojis doesn't work as a negotiating strategy with the boys from the US and Mexico.

 

[DumbAmerican]

You know what to do Canada. Ford Nation! Make North America Great Again!

 

[ncurd]

So reading the fine print on this.
Trump need to submit this congress before the end of the month and then its still needs rubberstamping because otherwise he'll need to deal with Mexico's incoming president who's far more reluctant.
"On cars, the two sides also settled on rules that will require 40%-45% of each vehicle to be made by workers earning at least $16 an hour." (BBC)
This probably they key thing about cars it doesn't nessarialy mean jobs will move from Mexico back to the USA but it should stop movement in the other direction. This makes is good for both countries better wages for Mexican workers but hopefuly protection of American jobs that still exist.
Someone will need to go into fine print I've no idea if 32k a year is good/bad/indiffrent and if thats an average wage, an average wage will likely screw American workers I suspect. A minimum wage on the other hand will help.
NOTE: Funny I always through the American right (and the right in general) were dead set against minimum wages....
Still it looks like a pretty good win for Trump (who badly needed something) and hes not completely shafted Mexico in the process. Mexico are obviously very happy as they are willing to seperate from Canada. It will be interesting to see how things go with Canada if the same attitude is taken (lets make this work for everyone) then it will go well if Trump tries to play Mexico against Canada to shaft Canada it will go badly wrong.
As to the rest of your post bringing in gender politics and what this is why I don't take you seriously if you actually read just focused on real detail instead of utter ******** people will treat the Trump movement as real people.
Also this is kick in the teeth for the UK who decided to leave one of the best free trade deals you can have.
My in-laws finally admitted they made a huge mistake this weekend (if only they known it was going to be this bad despite me shouting it from the rooftops, it was dubbed project fear). Hell its still getting dubbed project fear using fact based evidence instead of just hoping everything woulf be great because we said so.

 

[ncurd]

I mean this the kind of bullshit that Trump lots gets called out on, being petty to a military veteran and senator.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45323772

I didn't subscribe to McCain's politics but the man was shot down and captured in Vietnam and underwent years of torture. The mad deserved some respect at least even if you didn't agree with him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't buy into the whole hero worship of the dead.

McCain should be respected for his vote on Obamacare and his willingness to subject himself to years extra as a POA as a show of solidarity with his troops.

He shouldn't be respected for being a racist, a war mongerer and a war criminal.

You shouldn't ignore the good becuase of your political leanings/the bad because he has died.


Do think trump has been very petty in all of this though. He obviously didn't like him but he was still a sitting senator and the due respect should have been showed/protocol followed.
Without wanting to sympathise with trump he was damned either way, if he came out and said how great McCain was he'd be trashed because he obviously didn't like him. Do nothing and he's trashed for not honouring a veteran/senator

 

[ncurd]

Its a complicated thing honestly regardless of who someone who has spent a huge amount of their life in service of the country politically, militarially or civil service (what ever the American's call working for the goverment). Deserve at the point of death a level of respect.
TBH Trumps statement was fine he was a political oppenent he didn't need to fawn over him. If anything Obama's was too OTT though I do think we spend too much time focusing on what divides us politically and not working to gether when we agree or trying to compromise. I wish more of the sentiment expressed by Obama was done in life as opposed to death.
The flag thing was just petty though.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45331210

Trump now accusing Google of left wing bias because the majority of the search results for "trump news" are negative stories about Trump... Seriously. The great irony is him whinging about the google search results is now the top google search result.

 

[DumbAmerican]

So reading the fine print on this.
Trump need to submit this congress before the end of the month and then its still needs rubberstamping because otherwise he'll need to deal with Mexico's incoming president who's far more reluctant.

My understanding is that AMLO is 100% on board. He has a majority incoming to their legislature. Reports are that AMLOs top representative at the talks had closed door meetings with Robert Lighthizer, who was leading the US team, multiple times. I think his defeat of the globalist stooges in Mexico made this deal come together much more easily.

Someone will need to go into fine print I've no idea if 32k a year is good/bad/indiffrent and if thats an average wage, an average wage will likely screw American workers I suspect. A minimum wage on the other hand will help.

According to the OCED the average yearly wage in Mexico is $15K, in a much more unequal country than the US. You read horror stories about how factories in certain industries shut down here and then reopen there paying $2/hr. I'm not sure what their auto workers make now. I think $16 an hour is about what a US auto worker would start at on the low end. The starting wage for that line of work has come down a lot, especially relative to inflation, in recent decades.

The biggest issues isn't the wage for auto workers. It's the sourcing of parts for manufacturing in general. No longer will countries be able to just do final assembly of a product in Mexico, slap a Made in Mexico sticker on it, and ship it into the US. This is where new manufacturing jobs in the US and Mexico are going to come from. All the foreign companies currently engaging in this behavior are going to have to move more production to North America if they want access to the US market.

NOTE: Funny I always through the American right (and the right in general) were dead set against minimum wages....

I'm personally against a national minimum wage, but setting an industry wide partial minimum wage is different. Part of the reason I'm against minimum wages is because one size doesn't fit all sectors. I'm personally for an increase in the Earned Income Credit to top off the wages of low skilled workers. I feel that spreads the cost of helping those people around to all of society, and raising the minimum wage puts the costs unequally on certain people.

As to the rest of your post bringing in gender politics and what this is why I don't take you seriously if you actually read just focused on real detail instead of utter ******** people will treat the Trump movement as real people.

I'm making a serious point. Trudeau ran for election on having 50% of his cabinet as women, and to put women in important positions. His justification for this was that it's the current year, so duh. Trump considers trade to be his legacy defining issue. He's been talking about this one issue over and over against since the 1980s, and threatening to run every 4 years just to change all our trade deals. He put all men on his economic team, and all men who had been "killers," as he would say. Canada is screwed because of this. Trump wanted to make a deal with them first, and they ****** it all up. Egalitarianism is going to destroy the West if we don't get a handle on it's excesses. What Trudeau did to his country was the Canadian equivalent of Mugabe winning votes by taking away white farms. Now the people who cheered have to pay the price of this folly.

 

[DumbAmerican]

If you want to know why Trump is President, watch this video of candidate Obama talking over and over about renegotiating NAFTA. He had 8 years. We didn't hear a single word once he was President. In fact, by the end he was preaching "free trade" and trying to sign us up to the Trans Pacific Partnership. Trump may have been extreme in his rhetoric towards Mexico, but that just convinced lots of voters that he wasn't playing games. He meant what he was saying.

 

[ncurd]

Your point is you are a misogynistic dolt. Show me one shred of evidence about how they conduct their job and what they have negotiated that means they are less capable than the so called 'killers'.

....I still have no idea how you can promote a free trade deal and see it as a blow to globalism....I mean you are literally bemoaning Obama trying to set-up trade deal while lording the fact Trump got one....and the only reason Obama didn't get his was because Trump withdrew from it.....

So Obama's managed team in 8 years managed to negotiate a free trade deal with 11 countries. Trump managed 1 country in 2 years.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If you want to know why Trump is President, watch this video of candidate Obama talking over and over about renegotiating NAFTA. He had 8 years. We didn't hear a single word once he was President. In fact, by the end he was preaching "free trade" and trying to sign us up to the Trans Pacific Partnership. Trump may have been extreme in his rhetoric towards Mexico, but that just convinced lots of voters that he wasn't playing games. He meant what he was saying.

Ever consider that the vast majority of the trade deal is what had previously been negotiated under the Obama administration and all Trump did was make a big noise about how bad it was and threaten to pull out, make a headline change and then pass the whole thing off as his own? Nah, of course you didn't. Just like North Korea, remind me how after all the song and dance about what a great diplomat Trump was, things have actually changed at all?

All Trump has done is withdraw from a whole host of agreements the US signed up for that took years of negotiation so he's actually on a negative number of international deals, he has left more than he has agreed.

 

[ncurd]

Ever consider that the vast majority of the trade deal is what had previously been negotiated under the Obama administration and all Trump did was make a big noise about how bad it was and threaten to pull out, make a headline change and then pass the whole thing off as his own? Nah, of course you didn't. Just like North Korea, remind me how after all the song and dance about what a great diplomat Trump was, things have actually changed at all?

All Trump has done is withdraw from a whole host of agreements the US signed up for that took years of negotiation so he's actually on a negative number of international deals, he has left more than he has agreed.

It would be interesting to see a well-sourced side by side comparison of NAFTA, TPP and the Mexico deal and see how much a concession Trump has actually won.

Unlike DumbAmerican says everywhere I'm reading that this deal needs to go through before the next Mexican president comes in otherwise they'll be forced to go back to negotiating table.

Its also incredibly important that Trump gets a major victory right before mid-terms and that will rely on Canada signing up before the end of the week. Which in unlikely because they've been shut out for 5 weeks expecting something in 4 days is ummmmm lets say optimistic. Because despite what people think free trade deals are incredibly complex to negotiate and trying to strongarm anyone in these rarely works. Thats mainly because the Canadians caving to Trumps demands without major victories of their own will likely play better to their voter base than negotiating a fairly reasonable deal.

I mean Trumpers should understand this hes epitome of doing what his base wants.

 

[ncurd]

Trump's entire base only care about burning the house down in terms of anything Obama did.

Look at the Iran deal probably one the most historic peacekeeping deals in terms of controlling nuclear proliferation whilst helping foster diplomatic/economic ties with a nation that was actively trying its best to circumvent that. It is regarded by experts as possibly the best outcome anyone could legitimately hope for. It was proof sanctions can very much work.

But yeah Obama did it so Trump burnt it to the ground in the US, luckilly the rest of the world considered him a moron.....as Iran seams to be happy with the rest of the world so far.


This isn't unique to Trump either you see it with 'radical' ideologies they don't care about the message\action just deliverer. If its one of them its great/fine if its the opposing side boooo.

And no this isn't a case of the left did it first or the right its always been there its just getting more and more pronounced.

 

[DumbAmerican]

Your point is you are a misogynistic dolt. Show me one shred of evidence about how they conduct their job and what they have negotiated that means they are less capable than the so called 'killers'.

On average women score more towards agreeable on the agreeable/disagreeable axis. At the extreme disagreeable end you will find all males. This is not controversial at all. It's basic science, and if your ideology doesn't match the science then you are the one who needs to reassess. IQ is a bit more controversial, but it seems that males group towards the extremes and women group towards the center. So the % of people with 130+ IQs will tend to be more males. You need to be very disagreeable and have a massive IQ to successfully fight for your group in a trade deal with trillions of dollars at stake. You don't need somebody, like Canada has, who wishes negotiations were sending hugs and emojis back and forth. That's fine if everybody sends people like that, but you're screwed the moment you come up against someone who's more disagreeable (*cough* the Chinese *cough*).

These same personality traits are why jails are full of dumb, disagreeable men. Do you think that statistic is unfair?

....I still have no idea how you can promote a free trade deal and see it as a blow to globalism....I mean you are literally bemoaning Obama trying to set-up trade deal while lording the fact Trump got one....and the only reason Obama didn't get his was because Trump withdrew from it....

Because this deal is the first one that's designed to move manufacturing into the US above the levels of the current situation. It's a step in the right direction. It was negotiated with the workers interests as the primary focus, rather than the bottom line of multinational corporations. All the deals Obama was seeking would have harmed the US working class. Trump didn't completely screw Mexico over by just ending all preferential trade. This is fine. NAFTA drove millions of small Mexican farmers off their land by opening them to competition from US agribusiness. That is a significant factor with migration and the collapse of Mexican civil society. It's beneficial to the US for Mexico to stabilize.
The big structural change is that globalist special interests have less control over bilateral agreements than they do over multilateral agreements. This is Trump's insight, and he's trying to change the world trading system away from the globalists.

Unlike DumbAmerican says everywhere I'm reading that this deal needs to go through before the next Mexican president comes in otherwise they'll be forced to go back to negotiating table.

AMLO had a representative named Jesus Seade at the negotiations. By all accounts he was very positive, and was much more ok with excluding Canada than the current Mexican administration. As of today AMLO had been praising the deal.

Its also incredibly important that Trump gets a major victory right before mid-terms and that will rely on Canada signing up before the end of the week. Which in unlikely because they've been shut out for 5 weeks expecting something in 4 days is ummmmm lets say optimistic. Because despite what people think free trade deals are incredibly complex to negotiate and trying to strongarm anyone in these rarely works. Thats mainly because the Canadians caving to Trumps demands without major victories of their own will likely play better to their voter base than negotiating a fairly reasonable deal.

Protecting their dairy industry is apparently one of Canada's third rails. The deal with Mexico included more free farm trade. That's what Canada has to sign up to. Trump is threatening car tariffs if they don't. Dairy is huge in Wisconsin. If Trump ends Canada's protection of that industry he looks great there. US automakers have lots of factories in Ontario. If Trump tariffs Canadian autos, he looks good in Michigan and Ohio, where the bulk of US automakers manufacture. Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin were the states that gave him the Presidency. He's set himself up to look good no matter what happens with Canada. The Canadians tried to play defenders of the globalist / multilateral system, and they lost their leverage.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You think Trump has a massive IQ? HAHAHA oh ******* hell...

Newflash, people with high IQs tend to show at least some signs of intelligence. Trump shows none. You think he personally is hammering out the multi page deals when he can't deal with an intelligence briefing longer than 1 page that doesn't talk about him or have pictures? Trump is a bully and bullies very rarely have high IQ's. Trump also shows all the signs of Dunning-Kruger effect, all of whom have low intelligence.

 

[ncurd]

So Carl Bernstein is fake news now.....

TBF I don't think Trump actually know who Bernstein is.

 

[DumbAmerican]

Not a good run for the media between CNN completely ******* up the Cohen story and Bloomberg handing out off the record quotes in an attempt to hurt the US position in negotiations with Canada.

Now this:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sourc...e-kept-reporting-on-harvey-weinstein?ref=home

Looks like NBC News did their best to keep Harvey Weinstein's perversions from coming into the open. Their general counsel apparently threatened to ruin the reputation of Ronan Farrow if he published.

It's a good thing nobody trusts the media anymore. 65% of Americans believe that the mainstream news media makes stuff up.