England v Wales

[Bullitt]

Now now, play nice.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotemain'> Essentially bang on RC. Although the way Phillips was farting about, I have to disagree there. I would hate to be the fly-half simply sitting there back in the pocket like a tool while Mike Phillips is poncing about with the forwards on his own personal mission. [/b]

I would have agreed with you on Saturday, but having watched the game again yesterday I have to disagree. Mike Phillips was constantly dragged into the rucks to make sure Wales kept the ball, he decided it was better to secure the ball, rather than give an under pressure pass back to Hook. And it worked, they ran down the clock for 10min (not often Wales manage that!), if it wasn't for Duncan Jones' butterfingers, it would have been the perfect way to secure the win.

Comes in handy having a 9th forward, and a 10th if you include Henson who was doing his part in the rucks at the end.
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, I noticed Henson there for about five minutes - either hovering at the ruck, or getting stuck in. So I guess there were clear instructions just to keep the ball tight and deny England another chance. Bit bewildering for followers of the Wales Way - Earth calling Wales for many years, and suddenly they decide to get in touch. But even more humiliating for England's rumblers.

Fact is, Wales did cough up the ball and allow the chance of a draw when they ought to have sealed the match without doubt. Not a bad problem to have to think about.

 

[Prestwick]

When where I was sitting, Hook was hanging back with two Welsh players just in front of him on either side for a good ten minutes. He was in the pocket and from what we were seeing, was expecting Phillips to fire the ball back to him so he could get on with the DG. As the ten minutes wore on, he looked increasingly agitated before shrugging in resignation and coming back in.

If there was a plan to keep it tight, nobody told anyone beyond the forwards and Gavin Henson. I don't think there were any clear instructions, I think it was more Phillips being selfish and they could have paid for it when Phillips knocked on.

 

[Thingimubob]

When where I was sitting, Hook was hanging back with two Welsh players just in front of him on either side for a good ten minutes. He was in the pocket and from what we were seeing, was expecting Phillips to fire the ball back to him so he could get on with the DG. As the ten minutes wore on, he looked increasingly agitated before shrugging in resignation and coming back in.

If there was a plan to keep it tight, nobody told anyone beyond the forwards and Gavin Henson. I don't think there were any clear instructions, I think it was more Phillips being selfish and they could have paid for it when Phillips knocked on. [/b]

Nah it was Duncan Jones who knocked it on after the ball popped out of the ruck (likely from the boot of an Englishman trying to ruck the ball). Gareth Edwards said on Scrum V yesterday that the last 5 minuites of driving it up through the forwards gave him a bit of pleasure, because even though he doesn't like that kind of play, if you think about it - it's the way England like to play, so it was nice seeing Wales do it to them for once. I think they'd have passed the ball to Hook for a DG, after something like one or two more pick up and drives, because there was about 1 minuite left, but Duncan knocked it on. Not teh end of the world, would have been if England scored, but lucky for us, they didn't. Don't think Phillips was selfish, he just gave the forwards a hand. Sure Warren Gatland, Shaun Edwards and Rob Howley will look at it, and tell the team itr was a good way to run down the clock, but we should have hammered the nail home, and put the game to rest.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Regardless of what Phillips did in the last few minutes, he deserves the 9 shirt now, and it's his to lose. He played well under pressure from the English, and was solid in defense. Edwards said in todays Western Mail that Phillips had been practicing charging down all week.
And it payed off as he charged down the ball twice. Phillips should start for the rest of the tourny unless Peel can come off the bench and show some signs of very good form.

 

[carter1979]

Phillips definitely deserves to keep his place. He's been playing well and has deserved his opportunity for some time, he played well in the game and did what was expected of him by the coaching team. He's always going to be a much more physical proposition than Peel and so you can never expect him to play in the same way.

All a player can ever do, is to perform well while doing what the coach asks. Phillips did that and so has to start in the next game.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Exactly. Sadly, Jenkins refused to drop Peel, thus stopping both players from reaching their full potential, when he was playing crap. Gatland should kick both their arses before 2011, so we'll have two consistent World-Class scrum halves playing, rather than one under-performer and another who needs anger management classes.

 

[carter1979]

Really don't think we have anything to worry about on that front. Gatland will do what is necessary with every single one of the players to get the best out of them, if that's an arm around the shoulder and the player to be told that they're the best player in the world he'll do it, if it's a massive kick up the arse and getting told they're a useless sack of manure, then he'll do that.

It's great that we have somebody like him there, who'll do what it takes to win, regardless of how different that may be to what he may have done before, an adaptive, progressive coach. I just hope the regional coaches take the chance to learn from him.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Gareth Rees said it best..

......... So the first-half panned-out pretty much the way Gatland planned.
Many so-called pundits (who should know better!) forecast that the 'flood-gates' would open in the 2nd. half and Wales would become yet another statistic/notch on the England-at-Twickers belt. I thought (and said at half-time) that the fierce tackling and massive defensive commitment from the Welsh had to pay-off as the game entered it's final quarter.
To see the likes of Sheridan and Shaw petulantly throwing punches without provocation, along with the silly shirt-tugging at the back of the lines-out, suggested that by 60 minutes the Welsh pack was grinding the English in a subtle but very effective way!

Gavin Henson at 2nd. receiver started to make the hard yards going forward and with Hook inside him even the great Jonno panicked! Though the try's were simple enough as scores go, it was inevitable that they would cross the English line.

The only surprise after the 2nd. try was that the Welsh supremacy, worked at and established so valiantly in the first 60 minutes, didn't result in a 3rd. touchdown! Such was the dominance of the Welsh by the 75th minute, England reverted to their typical 10-man game which refused to click into gear!
Despite England keeping possession in the final minutes, the Welsh alternate drift and blitz defence, meant that every part of the park was closed to them as a scoring avenue!

I'm sure many will suggest that this was a game that England lost, rather than one which Wales won? Shame on those who do! I forecast a 7-point victory to the men in red but nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think that 7 point gap would be enclosed within a 45-point scoreline! Well done to Wales and I'm sure Warren Gatland's tactics will win many more prizes for them in the next 4 years![/b]

 

[RC]

Yeah, but what you guys are forgetting is this:

Fact is England lost it not Wales won it. No question.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Yeah, but what you guys are forgetting is this:

Fact is England lost it not Wales won it. No question.
[/b]

To forget that we would have to beleive it in the first place.

 

[Cymro]

Gareth Rees said it best..

......... So the first-half panned-out pretty much the way Gatland planned.
Many so-called pundits (who should know better!) forecast that the 'flood-gates' would open in the 2nd. half and Wales would become yet another statistic/notch on the England-at-Twickers belt. I thought (and said at half-time) that the fierce tackling and massive defensive commitment from the Welsh had to pay-off as the game entered it's final quarter.
To see the likes of Sheridan and Shaw petulantly throwing punches without provocation, along with the silly shirt-tugging at the back of the lines-out, suggested that by 60 minutes the Welsh pack was grinding the English in a subtle but very effective way!

Gavin Henson at 2nd. receiver started to make the hard yards going forward and with Hook inside him even the great Jonno panicked! Though the try's were simple enough as scores go, it was inevitable that they would cross the English line.

The only surprise after the 2nd. try was that the Welsh supremacy, worked at and established so valiantly in the first 60 minutes, didn't result in a 3rd. touchdown! Such was the dominance of the Welsh by the 75th minute, England reverted to their typical 10-man game which refused to click into gear!
Despite England keeping possession in the final minutes, the Welsh alternate drift and blitz defence, meant that every part of the park was closed to them as a scoring avenue!

I'm sure many will suggest that this was a game that England lost, rather than one which Wales won? Shame on those who do! I forecast a 7-point victory to the men in red but nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think that 7 point gap would be enclosed within a 45-point scoreline! Well done to Wales and I'm sure Warren Gatland's tactics will win many more prizes for them in the next 4 years![/b]

[/b]

Gareth Rees is the best rugby pundit for newspapers there is out there!

 

[Captain Morgan]

That was typed up by someone else from a Canadian paper so i can't get a link for it, shame.

 

[carter1979]

Yeah, but what you guys are forgetting is this:

Fact is England lost it not Wales won it. No question.
[/b]

Definitely have to disagree with you there. It wasn't a simple case of one or the other. It was a combination of the two. Once Wales got the Penalty early on, a couple of the Wales players heads went up, in particular, Gavin Henson and he started to run at the England defence a lot more. Additionally, Wales were getting their own ball out of the rucks a lot more easily. At the same time, when England had the ball, they were squandering it needlessly and putting themselves under pressure. At the same time Wales heads went up, Englands heads went down, they werent necessarily linked initially, but both things happened and at the same time. The more Wales competed, the more mistakes England made, the more England made mistakes, the more England competed.

I don't think it's as simple as saying "Wales sorted out their problems from the first half and thats what won it" nor "England just imploded and thats what lost it" It's very difficult to pinpoint exactly what happened, but Wales raising their game was one of the factors in the turn of fortune, therefore, you cannot possibly label this result purely and simply as "England lost it without question"

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah, but what you guys are forgetting is this:

Fact is England lost it not Wales won it. No question.
[/b]

:lol:

 

[dullonien]

That article by Gareth Rees was utter ********. He makes out that Wales' dire first half was a tactic used by Gatland to tire the English out! As if. Fair play to the boys though, they definitely finished the stronger team, regions must be doing something right!

Agree with Carter1979 about it being a combination of England self destructing and Wales growing in confidence as the game wore on.

 

[noikz]

:lol:

 

[RC]

Carter1979, please read messages posted previously (as previous as the past 2 pages) so you can fully understand my humour...and Mite's...and Pres'.
Talk about wasting your time.
:lol:

 

[chuckrugby]

This game was insane. Congrats to Wales... Nice job

 

[Macsen]

Is it me or is the length of time in which England played badly growing shorter every day? First they had a terrible second half, then a mad twenty minutes, yesterday that was shortened to eight, and today Ashton's talking about 'six mad minutes'.