England vs South Africa 20 / 11 / 2021

[ChicagoKid]

Experience in the front row is definitely an issue (though there's only one way to get experience, I guess!)

Front rowers average at 16 caps per player, take Marler out and it's 9, take Sinckler out and it's 3

Sinckler is an interesting player. Runs hard and is physical at the collision point, but seems to be sub-par at scrum time and loses composure quickly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Club level would be a start! Blamire has only 3 Premiership starts and Rodd 15. Blimey, ESPN shows Davison at nearly 30 as only having 23 starts.

Ox has only got 7 caps but has been around for a while with more than 100 senior appearances. Koch has 30 caps with the other 4 all having 45+.

I'm assuming that Marler must be in line to play otherwise surely Mako, for all the scrummaging criticisms, would be called up. Surely we couldn't go into a test v the Boks with 2 out of Rodd, Davison and Elrington on the LH? I know precisely nothing about Elrington. Rodd is a good prospect but this is the kind of game where he could either make a name for himself or see his progress set back.

Singleton must surely start at 2 on the basis that he has more experience from having been in the club game for a few years.

Apparently Mako is in France on holiday - not sure if he's specifically taken himself out of contention for a callup or if it's just the logistics of it, but from what I understand he's not been considered for a callup at any point

I rate Bev very highly but realistically he's a promising youngster, not an international starter - he's got surprisingly good technique for someone so inexperienced but doesn't have the size/strength (yet?) to go up against guys with a decade more experience than him. I remember vs La Rochelle last season when the combo of Atonio and Skelton just pushed him straight backwards with basically no resistance - literally men against boys

I'd honestly start Dolly, he's easily the best setpiece option - though I think, as you said, Singleton will possibly(/probably) go straight in to start as the more experienced player

Sinckler is an interesting player. Runs hard and is physical at the collision point, but seems to be sub-par at scrum time and loses composure quickly.

I think the composure thing is a bit over egged - definitely a hot head in his youth but doesn't flip out more than any other forward these days IMO
He's definitely not known for his scrummaging, though, as you said - he'll do a job against most sides but up against a real set piece specialist he'll come off second best

 

[Which Tyler]

To me if your good enough your old enough..... but saying that letting the entire inexperienced front row go up against SA is a big ask.

For most positions, yes.
But not for the front row IMO: https://www.therugbyforum.com/threa...-rugby-should-young-props-hookers-play.36973/

 

[ChicagoKid]

Apparently Mako is in France on holiday - not sure if he's specifically taken himself out of contention for a callup or if it's just the logistics of it, but from what I understand he's not been considered for a callup at any point

I rate Bev very highly but realistically he's a promising youngster, not an international starter - he's got surprisingly good technique for someone so inexperienced but doesn't have the size/strength (yet?) to go up against guys with a decade more experience than him. I remember vs La Rochelle last season when the combo of Atonio and Skelton just pushed him straight backwards with basically no resistance - literally men against boys

I'd honestly start Dolly, he's easily the best setpiece option - though I think, as you said, Singleton will possibly(/probably) go straight in to start as the more experienced player



I think the composure thing is a bit over egged - definitely a hot head in his youth but doesn't flip out more than any other forward these days IMO
He's definitely not known for his scrummaging, though, as you said - he'll do a job against most sides but up against a real set piece specialist he'll come off second best

I don't mean composure in the sense of committing penalties and going to the sin bin. It's more so when he gets dinged at scrum time and he has this incredulous look on his face. He normally points at himself, acts exasperated, and shuffles back towards the defensive line. Maybe not a big deal to others, but I notice it and it once that happens, his performance tends to dip with refs eyeing his bind/feet/etc.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't mean composure in the sense of committing penalties and going to the sin bin. It's more so when he gets dinged at scrum time and he has this incredulous look on his face. He normally points at himself, acts exasperated, and shuffles back towards the defensive line. Maybe not a big deal to others, but I notice it and it once that happens, his performance tends to dip with refs eyeing his bind/feet/etc.

Yeah, that's fair
He's also one of the first guys to start condescendingly patting the opposition on the head if he wins a penalty, so it's funny seeing him get so flustered when it's reversed

 

[unrated]

Vermeulen made some comments:

"Curry is a massive nuisance at the ruck. He's really good at his job, and he does really well. I haven't come up against (Sam) Simmonds and (Alex) Dombrandt – I've only watched them for their clubs, where they have been really outstanding.

"There are a lot of good, skilful back-rowers in the England squad, and it is going to be difficult for us (on Saturday)."

"If you look at Curry and Underhill, they played in 2019, and Courtney Lawes was the other loose forward they had. They are really good at the breakdown"

On the new players he had this to say:
"Test-match rugby is Test-match rugby, and if you are new, it might shock you a bit as it's a whole different thing to playing at club level.

"You always play to your strengths, but I must say they have brought in a lot of new guys who bring a bit more excitement to the game – in their forwards and backline. It's nice to see them using guys who are on form."

 

[Nudger]

Never seen a prop come up and give the ref the thumbs up after being penalised lol

 

[Bada-Bing!]

One minute silence for JDP's son this Saturday?

Rugby legend Jannie du Plessis' 10-month-old son drowns in pool

The 10-month-old died at the Du Plessis family's Krugersdorp, South Africa home on Tuesday night after he fell into the swimming pool, police said, adding officers were investigating the drowning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[ChicagoKid]

Never seen a prop come up and give the ref the thumbs up after being penalised lol

I don't know if you are being obtuse on purpose, but the point is body language is a massive indication of performance. A drop - even slightly - due to mental frustration is how matches are lost.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There's already a thread for Rassie discussion, can we keep this about the match plz

 

[Becca]

What's interesting is how Gatland got off without punishment. His comments about a South African TMO started this nonsense.

In American sports, any commentary on the officials is fined. And not $20,000 like SARU got, but 6-figure checks required. Why rugby tolerates whinging through the press and other methods is a farce.

It's in no way similar. Gatland asked about the sense in having a home TMO, it puts a lot onto an Official in those circumstance.
Erasmus created a ranting video which " somehow " got leaked to all and sundry. He also made the threat to Berry that, if he didn't speak to him when he wanted him to, he would more or less trash his reputation. That is bringing the game into disrepute in anyone's book. He also involved Kolisi by making claims tinged with a racist angle. That's pretty low.
And we all know he shouldn't be playing " water boy " during the matches. That's like sticking your fingers up to all other countries quite frankly.
He should just take his punishment like a man.

 

[Becca]

There's already a thread for Rassie discussion, can we keep this about the match plz

Sorry !

 

[BPM]

I see it completely opposite. The pre-game speech has written itself. "It's us against the world boys. First, they punished the team by not including us in the wards, now they are trying to ban me from rugby, and worst of all, they tried to punish Siya after he spoke out. Let's eff them up physically."

Us against the world is one of the best motivators in sport.

Yep. That was my immediate reaction too. Although in fairness, I think that's more or less the default position of South African rugby anyway …

 

[ncurd]

Aren't we due EJ somehow ******* up the backs selection today?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aren't we due EJ somehow ******* up the backs selection today?

Starting: Youngs, Furbank, May, Atkinson, Slade, Tuilagi, Steward

6-2 bench with: Quirke, Malins

Peak EJ

 

[Geordie]

i think we'll see:
9 Youngs
10 Smith
11 May
12 & 13 Manu & Slade
14 Malins
15 Steward

 

[Juggler]

ENGLAND TEAM

1. Bevan Rodd
2. Jamie Blamire
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Jonny Hill
6. Courtney Lawes
7. Sam Underhill
8. Tom Curry
9. Ben Youngs
10. Marcus Smith
11. Jonny May
12. Manu Tuilagi
13. Henry Slade
14. Joe Marchant
15. Freddie Steward
FINISHERS
16. Nic Dolly
17. Joe Marler
18. Will Stuart
19. Charlie Ewels
20. Sam Simmonds
21. Alex Dombrandt
22. Raffi Quirke
23. Max Malins

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

ENGLAND TEAM

1. Bevan Rodd
2. Jamie Blamire
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Jonny Hill
6. Courtney Lawes
7. Sam Underhill
8. Tom Curry
9. Ben Youngs
10. Marcus Smith
11. Jonny May
12. Manu Tuilagi
13. Henry Slade
14. Joe Marchant
15. Freddie Steward
FINISHERS
16. Nic Dolly
17. Joe Marler
18. Will Stuart
19. Charlie Ewels
20. Sam Simmonds
21. Alex Dombrandt
22. Raffi Quirke
23. Max Malins

Unsurprised at that tbh - Marchant and Malins is the only one up in the air but I'm not bothered.

Curry was always at 8

 

[Mr Burns]

No Radwan again, just don't get excited by this England side even with Smith starting.

Just more players crowbarred in, expecting a 10 point loss in a fairly uninspiring game.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Eddie is in Centre on the wing phase of his life I see.