• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[June Tests 2018: 2nd Test] New Zealand vs. France (16/06/2018)

All Black

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
624
Reaction score
163
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

New Zealand

Not sure you understand the issue here.
The point is WR's actions end up vindicating ignorant drunktards who just scream at the tele whenever a call doesn't favour their team and punishing people who played the game and actually took the time to read the rule book.
No I understand what you're saying.

I dont think WR is listening to 'ignorant drunktards' at all. They just have a lot of rules they need to sort through.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

First XV
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
2,739
Reaction score
595
Country Flag

Argentina

Club or Nation

CASI

Disagree. I exaggerated for picturesque reasons, but fans who dont understand why that play is a red card arguably constitute the overwhelming majority. Ruining a game by sending a guy off in the 1Q ruins that majority's entertainment. Just walk into any pub. That majority does have a point tho: the rules are pretty stupid. Most importantly this is as stupid way to fix the problem as you could think of.
By doing this WR has managed to ridiculize pretty much every party involved. Those in favour of the (original )call are now pointing out the inconsistencies, those against it are saying the ref ruined the game and the refs are not defenseless.

And having "a lot of rules" is as poor of an excuse as it gets. Just imagine

Ref: What do you think you are doing? Why on earth are you fielding 17 players?
Coach: Give me a break, so many rules we need to sort through.

There is a right way to fix the rules. You change them.
 

All Black

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
624
Reaction score
163
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

New Zealand

Disagree. I exaggerated for picturesque reasons, but fans who dont understand why that play is a red card arguably constitute the overwhelming majority. Ruining a game by sending a guy off in the 1Q ruins that majority's entertainment. Just walk into any pub. That majority does have a point tho: the rules are pretty stupid. Most importantly this is as stupid way to fix the problem as you could think of.
By doing this WR has managed to ridiculize pretty much every party involved. Those in favour of the (original )call are now pointing out the inconsistencies, those against it are saying the ref ruined the game and the refs are not defenseless.

And having "a lot of rules" is as poor of an excuse as it gets. Just imagine

Ref: What do you think you are doing? Why on earth are you fielding 17 players?
Coach: Give me a break, so many rules we need to sort through.

There is a right way to fix the rules. You change them.
Like I said man, I know what you're saying. I'm happy with the outcome even though it's too late for the French and I have considered your implications but all we can do really, is move on and hope they get it right which they haven't been able to do since the game started :)
 

Jabby

First XV
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,085
Reaction score
725
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Otago

I only though it was a going to be a RC based on the interpretations over the last few years, five years ago it prob would have been a yellow and ten years ago prob only a penalty....twenty years ago it would have been a scrum to France for Barrett knocking it on!

what has happened is exactly how Law in the real world are crystallised, courts investigating a real world situation and setting a precedent, im happy with the precedent they have set.

We cant use a fair of people looking stupid or wrong stop the "correct" decisions from being made. the only thing worse than the saying the ref got it wrong is to let these crazy interpretations keep becoming law because we're afraid of looking silly and don't want to admit someone got it wrong.

edit, that U20's clip is bad, just like as far as anyone could guess Fall had not intention of causing hard that is the opposite and the touch judge should be reprimanded for missing something like that right in front of him
 

Zootalaws

Academy Player
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
67
Reaction score
8
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Wellington

Ruining a game by sending a guy off in the 1Q...
The game wasn’t ‘ruined’ by the ref’s actions - the French player let down his teammates and his supporters.

And it certainly wasn’t ‘ruined’ for the very, very large number of All Black supporters.

I would have preferred a full 15-man opposition, but if they can’t maintain discipline, not something my desire can affect.

Point the finger in the right direction: the player that broke the rule that has been in place for long enough that he should have learned it by now.

The rest just smacks of the usual sour grapes and AB-bashing this site is infamous for.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,000,799
Reaction score
6,171
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

The game wasn’t ‘ruined’ by the ref’s actions - the French player let down his teammates and his supporters.
The red card was rescinded by world rugby though, so they're saying he shouldn't have been carded.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

First XV
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
2,739
Reaction score
595
Country Flag

Argentina

Club or Nation

CASI

And it certainly wasn’t ‘ruined’ for the very, very large number of All Black supporters.
1) This might come as a shocker but the AB supporters are a small percentage of the total number of rugby fans.
2) Anecdotal evidence suggest what you said is simply not true. The overwhelming majority of ABs fans i know enjoy a good contest even more than a win.
3) If you read all my posts, you'd understand i don't place most of the blame on the ref. I blame the rules.
 

FrenchFan

First XV
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
2,240
Reaction score
140
Country Flag

France

Club or Nation

Toulouse

The red card was rescinded by world rugby though, so they're saying he shouldn't have been carded.
But this is not what decided the outcome of the game though.

The union charade could have fielded 16 players they still would have lost. There is a gulf in class between the No1 nation and one that is a tier 2 charade in the making. The only thing keeping the FFR in the Top 10 is the stupidity of the WR point system - not performance.

The media outside of this country whaffled on about the yellow and red cards and the Serin RugbyGate. The media here are taking the mick out of the tourists. Rugbyrama ran a poll during the series 'Are les Bleus a tier-2 team?'
The stats over the 3 tests are damning. The line-out is a mess. The scrum retreated more times than it advanced. The backs can'tstring 3 passes together. The offloading game that had started to take shape under Noves is gone. No leaders. etc. etc. The 'Best defensive team of the 6N' <chuckles> conceded a record 19 tries and 127 pts WTF - they are a complete J-O-K-E.
Atonio, Babillot, Galletier, Fall, Pélissié, Leroux, Dumayrou etc. are Not internationals. Plain simple.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,000,799
Reaction score
6,171
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

But this is not what decided the outcome of the game though.l
Never said it did, just saying that it's silly to blame Fall considering in the eyes of the laws he was wrongly penalised.
 

Jabby

First XV
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,085
Reaction score
725
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Otago

1) This might come as a shocker but the AB supporters are a small percentage of the total number of rugby fans.
2) Anecdotal evidence suggest what you said is simply not true. The overwhelming majority of ABs fans i know enjoy a good contest even more than a win.
3) If you read all my posts, you'd understand i don't place most of the blame on the ref. I blame the rules.
i have to say if we must have these meaningless tours rather than games with something really hanging on it like WC qualification then i firmly fall in the camp of rather seeing a good contest and potentially even the odd loss if it means the next win is more exciting
 

Five Meters Out

Academy Player
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
242
Reaction score
77
Country Flag

Tajikistan

The game wasn’t ‘ruined’ by the ref’s actions - the French player let down his teammates and his supporters.

And it certainly wasn’t ‘ruined’ for the very, very large number of All Black supporters.
I would disagree. For me and everyone I spoke too in NZ felt that game was a dud from the time of the sending off.
 

FrenchFan

First XV
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
2,240
Reaction score
140
Country Flag

France

Club or Nation

Toulouse

The red card didn't ruin the game. NZ were always going to win. The red card decided by how much. It didn't change the outcome of the game.

What ruined the games was the complete mismatch between the 2 sides. The series barely offered any contest.

In the 3rd test Fra managed to keep 15 players on - yet they were still comprehensively outclassed. Cards or the ref accidentally getting in the way are part of the game. The media outside of this country made a song and dance about events that in the end did NOT decide the series.
 

FrenchFan

First XV
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
2,240
Reaction score
140
Country Flag

France

Club or Nation

Toulouse

i have to say if we must have these meaningless tours rather than games with something really hanging on it like WC qualification then i firmly fall in the camp of rather seeing a good contest and potentially even the odd loss if it means the next win is more exciting
I agree. I don't see the point of the June tour. It only works for the union's bank balance. Fans over here are moving away from this endless dross of boring friendlies we get with the June and November tests. They want to see competitive rugby with something to play for.
 
Top