McAlister heading to Sale

[zidaniel]

McAlister can always make his money and come back for another WC in few years ala Flavell

 

[A Train]

It's a huge loss for the Blues, so disappointed

 

[esoj]

it pretty much comes down to how they are contracted I believe. nz have gone the central contract route which means every player that plays at super 14 level etc has a contract with the nzrfu. obviously if a player makes the abs they get a bit more as well but it still doesn't compare to what the clubs offer up north.

most places up north have gone the other way and the clubs pay almost all of the wages with the unions tipping in their own money on a case by case basis.

also other things like player associations factor into as well and in nz the players association is very strong and haas fought very hard to get a collective bargining agreement which the nzrfu has to fufill. the base contract I think from memory for a super 14 player is 150k then if they play for the abs that adds onto that and then their air nz cup team puts in a bit too. thats the basics anyway there are some exemptions on some payments and some other rules I think to do with the salary cap in the air nz cup.

 

[gjwoodq]

If its a financial future hes after rather than an international future, then he has made the right move. New Zealand don't have nor will they ever have the financial muscle to offer what the NH teams can offer.



He will have a good few years living in a different enviroment, making alot of NZ dollars and will then come home glad of the experience he has just had and with sound finances.

 

[Prestwick]

Well Considering the Fact You Think Marshall is a Fly Half... [/b]

Actually, I didn't say that at all! Nice bit of word play there Ripper, you ever thought of being a spin doctor?

James Hook has played in all sorts of positions for the Ospreys but actually rarely at fly half, neither they nor Wales have had the heart to stick him firmly at Fly half and let rip.

 

[Caledfwlch]

i think im starting to dislike mcalister now. dirty traitor!

 

[Prestwick]

If you get paid for doing something, you are therefore doing a job. If you are doing a job, you therefore should have the same rights as any other professional worker to work where-ever you please. If Luke wants to play in the NH or in South Africa or in Tibet then that it his choice because it is a free market.

 

[zavala]

It's almost getting to the point where the question should be "Which current All Blacks internationals aren't moving to Europe". Is it purely money that they are coming for? The Super 14 is the best comp in the world, or so I'm told, so why move to a lesser league.

 

[Centre12]

Its a pretty sad state of affairs when young players in their prime are abandoning the black jersey to chase money. How long do you think it will take before the All Blacks start picking players from overseas? Or even go the other way and ban players from playing for New Zealand once they have played abroad regardless of them returning to New Zealand.

 

[TRUE LEGND]

How long do you think it will take before the All Blacks start picking players from overseas? Or even go the other way and ban players from playing for New Zealand once they have played abroad regardless of them returning to New Zealand. [/b]

The player depth pool in NZ is to big to be looking else where for talent... Saying NZ may have to resort to looking else where for talent would be look NRL having to look for talent in NZ to fill the Kangaroo's jersey.. THATS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!

Like Nick Far Jones quoted as saying about player depth in NZ " When 1 headache goe's up pops another"

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

<div class='quotemain'> How long do you think it will take before the All Blacks start picking players from overseas? Or even go the other way and ban players from playing for New Zealand once they have played abroad regardless of them returning to New Zealand. [/b]

The player depth pool in NZ is to big to be looking else where for talent... Saying NZ may have to resort to looking else where for talent would be look NRL having to look for talent in NZ to fill the Kangaroo's jersey.. THATS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!
[/b][/quote]

I agree with that. There are no northern hemisphere teams that have a great depth in talent so that they could let players go left right and centre to the SH (not that they'd be wanted down south, anyway).
But i'm not happy that so many players are heading up north.
Teams in the NH are never going to progress if they keep looking down south. I know the Welsh clubs haven't brought in many and i'm happy about that. As much as i'd love to see more talents from SH playing amongst my favourites it just wouldn't do my country any good. The international stage is where it counts.

I don't want to see the Guinness premiership getting like the english football premiership. One of the best leagues in the world...only able to produce a quarter finals international team becuase of all of the foriegn players.

Good luck to McAllister though.
i look forward to hopefully seeing my team coming up against him this season.

 

[scuubasteve]

Start Evans at 10. Move Carter back to 12 (Play Brett at 10 for Crusaders and Carter at 12). Toeava at 13. NZ will still cope with these loses.

A. Oliver, B. Kelleher, R. Gear, G. Rawlinson, C. Jack are all able to be replaced in the near future. Mauger less so (because of lack of depth) but not completely.

Hayman and McAlister are is the only losses that really worry me. Hayman worryingly appears to be more dedicated to NZ and the All Blacks than McAlister. When NZ starts losing the players of the future, then its a worry. And when the AB jersey looses its desire over NH lifestyle then problem times are ahead in the longer term (post 2011).

How will Aussie do without Gregan + Larkham is bigger issue. Or South Africa without J. Smit + V. Matfield + P. Montgomery + B. James + A. Willemse.
And if Burger goes...


This article also paints a rather sorry picture for South Africa:

http://www.southafrica.info/public_service...ugby-280607.htm

 

[candybum]

i thought SA can pick players from over seas?

 

[scuubasteve]

Yeah I think that SA started accepting foreign based players under Jake White's reign in 2004 (with Percy Montgomery playing for Newport in Wales and the Springboks at the same time).

Although there might be a South African on this forum who could verify this??

Aside from Monty I cannot recall any players who have recently represented SA whilst being based overseas.

Also, if SARU is hellbent on transformation then this will make their selection decisions alot easier one would think?

I personally believe that the selection of foreign based players is entirely dependent on Jake White being coach.

 

[scuubasteve]

If you want to talk about the money you can earn in NZ playing rugby, take a look at this article by (now) TV3 rugby reporter Hamish McKay.

This was written prior to the Super 14 expansion, so is at least 2 years old.

http://www.equity.co.nz/scripts/getfile.asp?DB_FILE_ID=259

I don't entirely agree with the comments about sports professionals being treated the same as regular professionals. Sportsmen (and woman to be PC) are representing their nations as well as themselves.

There aren't to many tangible examples to compare this situation to. Possibly in wartime? The defection of a person to another countries side certainly warrants similar feelings of emotion. If a professional soldier (as they are these days) was to switch sides...well they'd probably be shot to be honest. And while sport isn't war (for the most part) it does conjure similar feelings of patriotism and resentment for traitors (A harsh choice of words I know)

 

[TRUE LEGND]

Start Evans at 10. Move Carter back to 12 [/b]

Carter is rated best first five in the world why change something late in the year??

He was groomed for the first 5 jersey for this years WC i think he deserves his chance to stay there... Like D.C has said in the media he hasn't yet peaked and my gut feeling is, lets wait for him to peak. The timing of it is near perfect for the WC...

sit back and watch him unleash!

 

[scuubasteve]

Oh nah bro, I was meaning post world cup for Evans at 10 and DC at 12.
No point in shuffling the deck before this world cup. This backline is amazing with Carter/McAlister/Toeava combo, they will conquer the world.

I was thinking more about the long term, when lack of experience at 12 could become more of a problem for us.

 

[TRUE LEGND]

If you get paid for doing something, you are therefore doing a job. If you are doing a job, you therefore should have the same rights as any other professional worker to work where-ever you please. If Luke wants to play in the NH or in South Africa or in Tibet then that it his choice because it is a free market. [/b]

Exactly!... And likewise to Pacific Islander's who choose to school and play there rugby in NZ and not considered poached by some people in here... Fair comment there Prestwick if only your other user name's bared the same resemblance as ours

 

[nam97]

<div class='quotemain'> Kind of pathetic England can't develop some of their own talent. It's a waste really, you'd think they'd want to grow some players in that position for their own good.

I see it as a loss for both England and New Zealand. McAlister will be only 28 in 2011, he will be back by then, so in the long run, England get shafted don't they. [/b]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. How tragically misinformed you are, how sad that you won't be here to see the likes of Anthony Allen of Gloucester, Shane Geraghty of London Irish, Matthew Tait of Newcastle and probably even Andy Farrell of Saracens catch McAlister woefully out of position and run away for a break.

Just because we're getting a few players from the SH, mostly spread as one or maybe two per club, does not mean that will be the end of efforts to develop home grown talent. All of our club and regional academies are bustling with talent.

I think it is rather more pathetic that you feel fit to make such woefully ignorant assertions despite having little working knowledge of what actually goes on in English rugby! Tch! A waste!

Justin Marshall rarely played for the Ospreys and because they already had Welsh talent like James Hook coming on up who outplayed him any day. Also, he is a two faced, turncoat, money grabbing toss pot, he left the Ospreys in the lurch when they actually did need him to run off to Japan to chase the dollar! Ospreys only bought him as cover, not as a replacement so I don't quite see how you can compare them in the same light.

Guys, if you want the real foreign legions, go to France. Most of Stade Francais is made up of Argentinians!
[/b][/quote]


Big talk mate, all very well saying how great these guys are. Your not convincing at all. Those players have yet to prove their worth, because I'm struggling to see a world class English centre at the moment and I bet I'm not the only one.

Mathew Tait I agree with you, but Farrel? You must be joking!

 

[Caledfwlch]

for auckland we cld have 10 evans 12 toeava 13 tuitavake? i dont know. tuitupou will go so wecld have a 10 evans tuitavake and toeava combi



for the ABs it cld be 10 carter 12 toeava 13 smith

they shld leave carter and 10 and not move him back to 12