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[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Wales vs. Australia (05/11/2016)

The team I would like to see : L Williams, North, J Davies, S Williams, Amos, S Davies, G Davies, Jenkins, Owens, Lee, Jones, Hill, Warburton, Tupric, Moriaty. Faletau comes in for Warburton if fit and Moriaty goes to 6.

What I fear it's going to be: Halfpenny, L Williams, J Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, G Davies, Jenkins, Owens, Lee, Jones, Charteris, Lydiate, Warburton, Moriaty
 
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The team I would like to see : Williams, North, Davies, Williams, Amos, Davies, Davies, Jenkins, Owens, Lee, Jones, Hill, Warburton, Tupric, Moriaty. Faletau comes in for Warburton if fit and Moriaty goes to 6.

What I fear it's going to be: Halfpenny, Williams, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Davies, Jenkins, Owens, Lee, Jones, Charteris, Lydiate, Warburton, Moriaty

hella confusing when not putting initials before each davies haha. might as well throw bradley davies in there as well just for more confusion
 
hella confusing when not putting initials before each davies haha. might as well throw bradley davies in there as well just for more confusion

Yeah sorry lol, could do so we get the chance of Davies, to Davies to Davies to Davies.
 
PS. Was waiting to see how long it would take to blame Cuthbert. People need to actually watch games instead of just jumping on the bandwagon and blaming someone who for 90% of the game didn't even get within 20m of the ball. (apart from one try-saving tackle)

To blame him for the loss would be ridiculous, but to criticise him for his performance is fair. The try-saving tackle was good but fairly regulation. It was far outweighed by his butchering of a try the other end IMO.

It might be repetitive and boring to criticise Alex Cuthbert, but it doesn't make it any less accurate. He isn't good enough by a long shot.
 
I think Cuthbert played better than north who was very disappointing but he still also showed why there are other better options and he shouldn't be starting. I don't think Giles should be starting just yet but he is probably a better option than Cuthbert.
 
I think Cuthbert played better than north who was very disappointing but he still also showed why there are other better options and he shouldn't be starting. I don't think Giles should be starting just yet but he is probably a better option than Cuthbert.

just swap amos for cuthbert, as should have been the case for this match. Amos has played well every game, even in a poor Dragons side. has done nothing wrong to warrent being dropped and during his cameo this weekend he looked dangerous
 
Just watched highlights of the first test against New Zealand. What the hell happened? I don't know how after two weeks with Rob Howley they turn into the shambles that they were on Saturday.
 
Other than just being really **** on the day?

Depth. Faletau, Alun Wyn, Warburton and Liam Williams are big losses and were key players on the NZ tour. First XV is good but backups just aren't good enough.

I also think there was a lot more pressure on Wales in this game being at home against a supposedly "weakening" (which is complete bull****) Aussie team, nothing to lose going to NZ other than pride.
 
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Other than just being really **** on the day?

Depth. Faletau, Alun Wyn, Warburton and Liam Williams are big losses and were key players on the NZ tour. First XV is good but backups just aren't good enough.

I also think there was a lot more pressure on Wales in this game being at home against a supposedly "weakening" (which is complete bull****) Aussie team, nothing to lose going to NZ other than pride.

to be fair to moriarty, he had big shoes to fill but he didnt look out of place at all. excellent work rate and im happy that if falatau needs a rest in future he can certainly fill the void if needed
 
Jenkins did OK but I'd give anything to see Sam Parry start at hooker. Owens is OK in the meantime.

Did you see the Muster v Ospreys game? Sam Parry was woeful in that match. Honestly, I don't think we've got a properly good option at hooker. Our best bet is Ryan Elias at the Scarlets, who at least looks like a modern day hooker! Our other options all either have flaws to their games, or are far to inconsistent. It's maybe a little unfair of me to label Dacey and possibly Elliot Dee in that way, but I'm not sure either have what it takes at international level.
 
Thought we may as well bring this thread back instead of clutter the Wales v SA match-day thread.

What did we learn from the AI's? What do we need to develop/change for the 6 nations? Valley, I know you'll call for Howley's head, but realistically that's never going to happen while Gats is away on Lions duty! We're more than likely stuck with this coaching regime until after the world cup. Hopefully what they can do is wort out selection, because it's been shocking for far too long....

Personnel wise, I think the entire squad needs a bit of a shake-up. There's too many players lacking the basic skill-set for their position at international level, and the more the game evolves, the further they are being left behind. Lydiate, Cuthbert, Roberts and Jon Davies all struggle to execute under pressure, and all have been around long enough to lead me to believe that they are incapable of drastic change. If I'm brutally honest, North and Scott Williams are just as bad (Scott Williams very hit and miss). Maybe it's time we're a bit more ruthless with our selection policy, cutting those who's skills consistently let them down in match situations.

Following that logic, these are the players I'd look to take forward:

LOOSEHEAD PROP


Nicky Smith, Gethin Jenkins, Rob Evans.

Jenkins is coming to the end of his illustrious career, and whilst we may see another season out of him if he continues his current form, I'd have Nicky Smith as my starter in the 6 nations. Jenkins can continue off the bench while he continues to perform, with Evans taking his place eventually. The dynamic carrying of Smith is something we need more of in our pack to help us generate some momentum in our game. Rob Evans is another strong carrier in the tight, and would be a useful addition later in games.

TIGHTHEAD PROP


Samson Lee, Tomas Francis, Dillon Lewis.

For the time being, there's precious little alternatives to Samson Lee and Tomas Francis. Both struggle to influence a game outside of the scrum as neither are all that mobile. Hopefully we'll see more of Dillon Lewis at the Blues this season, because he seemed to fit the bill nicely, a strong scrummager, but dynamic in the loose. Still a problem position for us that we need to address moving forward.

HOOKER

Ken Owens, Scott Baldwin, Ryan Ellias.

I've been of the opinion for a while now that we can do better at hooker than Owens or Baldwin. On their day, both are fine hookers, but both can be inconsistent. I see similar flaws in Dacey, Parry and Dee, none of them properly looking like the real deal (have done in patches, rarely more). I really like the look of Ryan Ellias at the Scarlets though. He impressed at U20 level, and given a chance this season, he's taken it with both hands. His physicality, athleticism and good basics make in a well rounded hooker with a big future. Of course, we'll need to wait and see if he too can sustain this form.

SECOND ROW

Alun-Wyn Jones....

For a while there, I was really happy with our stock at lock, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that other than AWJ, the rest aren't cutting it in the high tempo world of international rugby. Jake Ball and Bradley Davies look worryingly pedestrian when you compare them to the likes of Itoje, Whilelock, Romano, Launchberry, Johnny Gray etc. Charteris has his positives, but they're mostly defensive, and he's not getting any younger. Could the likes of Thorntun be the answer? Not sure Cory Hill is! I'm not expecting us to uncover a player like Itoje (he's a true one-off), but we need a second row to partner AWJ who's more than a lumbering 'enforcer' type. Feels like second row play has taken a massive leap forward in the last few years, and we're struggling to do the same. Even AWJ has dropped below the very best imo, and that's despite him being able to adjust his game quite well, running with the ball, offloading etc. It's more a reflection on how exceptional some of the other second rows are! I'm a little stuck here really. If push comes to shove, I'd retain Jake Ball, drop Bradley (Jake's more mobile), and properly test Thorntun.

BACK ROW

Faletau, Tipuric, Moriarty, King, Ellis Jenkins, Dan Baker, James Davies.

Harsh to leave out Warburton altogether, but imo he needs time out from international rugby, back at the Blues to see if he can finally put his injury troubles behind him, and fully rediscover his full form. It feels like he's been playing at about 60% for years, it's almost difficult to remember just how good he was/is when fully fit, and in top form. In Tipuric, James Davies & Ellis Jenkins there's a trio of very good opensides with varying styles. Faletau is one of our very few world class players, but I'd like to see Baker developed into a viable alternative, meaning Moriarty can remain at blindside, where he's best imo. King is the versatile all-rounder. There's a number of other options at the regions with the likes of Aaron Shingler, Josh Turnbul & Josh Navidi versatile players, and youngsters like Olly Griffiths & Will Boyd starting to emerge.

That's all for now. I'll continue with the backs another day.
 
Thought we may as well bring this thread back instead of clutter the Wales v SA match-day thread.

What did we learn from the AI's? What do we need to develop/change for the 6 nations? Valley, I know you'll call for Howley's head, but realistically that's never going to happen while Gats is away on Lions duty! We're more than likely stuck with this coaching regime until after the world cup. Hopefully what they can do is wort out selection, because it's been shocking for far too long....

Personnel wise, I think the entire squad needs a bit of a shake-up. There's too many players lacking the basic skill-set for their position at international level, and the more the game evolves, the further they are being left behind. Lydiate, Cuthbert, Roberts and Jon Davies all struggle to execute under pressure, and all have been around long enough to lead me to believe that they are incapable of drastic change. If I'm brutally honest, North and Scott Williams are just as bad (Scott Williams very hit and miss). Maybe it's time we're a bit more ruthless with our selection policy, cutting those who's skills consistently let them down in match situations.

Following that logic, these are the players I'd look to take forward:

LOOSEHEAD PROP


Nicky Smith, Gethin Jenkins, Rob Evans.

Jenkins is coming to the end of his illustrious career, and whilst we may see another season out of him if he continues his current form, I'd have Nicky Smith as my starter in the 6 nations. Jenkins can continue off the bench while he continues to perform, with Evans taking his place eventually. The dynamic carrying of Smith is something we need more of in our pack to help us generate some momentum in our game. Rob Evans is another strong carrier in the tight, and would be a useful addition later in games.

TIGHTHEAD PROP


Samson Lee, Tomas Francis, Dillon Lewis.

For the time being, there's precious little alternatives to Samson Lee and Tomas Francis. Both struggle to influence a game outside of the scrum as neither are all that mobile. Hopefully we'll see more of Dillon Lewis at the Blues this season, because he seemed to fit the bill nicely, a strong scrummager, but dynamic in the loose. Still a problem position for us that we need to address moving forward.

HOOKER

Ken Owens, Scott Baldwin, Ryan Ellias.

I've been of the opinion for a while now that we can do better at hooker than Owens or Baldwin. On their day, both are fine hookers, but both can be inconsistent. I see similar flaws in Dacey, Parry and Dee, none of them properly looking like the real deal (have done in patches, rarely more). I really like the look of Ryan Ellias at the Scarlets though. He impressed at U20 level, and given a chance this season, he's taken it with both hands. His physicality, athleticism and good basics make in a well rounded hooker with a big future. Of course, we'll need to wait and see if he too can sustain this form.

SECOND ROW

Alun-Wyn Jones....

For a while there, I was really happy with our stock at lock, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that other than AWJ, the rest aren't cutting it in the high tempo world of international rugby. Jake Ball and Bradley Davies look worryingly pedestrian when you compare them to the likes of Itoje, Whilelock, Romano, Launchberry, Johnny Gray etc. Charteris has his positives, but they're mostly defensive, and he's not getting any younger. Could the likes of Thorntun be the answer? Not sure Cory Hill is! I'm not expecting us to uncover a player like Itoje (he's a true one-off), but we need a second row to partner AWJ who's more than a lumbering 'enforcer' type. Feels like second row play has taken a massive leap forward in the last few years, and we're struggling to do the same. Even AWJ has dropped below the very best imo, and that's despite him being able to adjust his game quite well, running with the ball, offloading etc. It's more a reflection on how exceptional some of the other second rows are! I'm a little stuck here really. If push comes to shove, I'd retain Jake Ball, drop Bradley (Jake's more mobile), and properly test Thorntun.

BACK ROW

Faletau, Tipuric, Moriarty, King, Ellis Jenkins, Dan Baker, James Davies.

Harsh to leave out Warburton altogether, but imo he needs time out from international rugby, back at the Blues to see if he can finally put his injury troubles behind him, and fully rediscover his full form. It feels like he's been playing at about 60% for years, it's almost difficult to remember just how good he was/is when fully fit, and in top form. In Tipuric, James Davies & Ellis Jenkins there's a trio of very good opensides with varying styles. Faletau is one of our very few world class players, but I'd like to see Baker developed into a viable alternative, meaning Moriarty can remain at blindside, where he's best imo. King is the versatile all-rounder. There's a number of other options at the regions with the likes of Aaron Shingler, Josh Turnbul & Josh Navidi versatile players, and youngsters like Olly Griffiths & Will Boyd starting to emerge.

That's all for now. I'll continue with the backs another day.

great post! for locks id certainly look at lloyd ashley. the way he plays reminds me of AWJ, he has incredible fitness too.
 

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