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Premiership Rugby 23/24 - Rd 4

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
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Sale

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Edit: Oh, I guess we can't even link to images now?


Friday 3rd November
Sale Sharks vs Gloucester (live on TNT Sports)

Saturday 4th November
Harlequins vs Newcastle Falcons
Northampton vs Bath
Saracens vs Leicester Tigers (live on TNT Sports)

Sunday 5th November
Exeter vs Bristol Bears (live on TNT Sports)​
 
rolling 4-weeks of form (1xPRC and 3xPrem)
Code:
PTS   PD
 17   36   Bath
 15   14   Gloucester
 14  118   Exeter
 14  -57   Bristol
 10   39   Leicester
 10  -11   Northampton
  9    5   Sale
  8  -54   Newcastle
  6  -10   Harlequins
  2  -81   Saracens
And yes, it looks like we get no images of any description :(

ETA: or even unfurled facebook posts (I don't use twitter)
 
Really hope we get some returnees this week, as it stands (from Axe's press update today) if no one returns we have:
  • No hookers
  • No opensides
  • No fullbacks
Quirke confirmed out for 4-6 weeks so only 1 senior scrumhalf as well
 
I think this could go either way for Chiefs this weekend, coast to coast could explose Chiefs defence outwide but also if we front up like we have been this season so if we can take away the platform then maybe.

Confident we can win but not getting carried away with our results so far.
 
Interesting from Baxter...and i agree with him...


England were "found out" at the World Cup, with years of scrummaging neglect requiring a cultural "sea change" in this country, Exeter's Rob Baxter has warned.

Steve Borthwick's side were beaten 16-15 by eventual champions South Africa in the semi-final earlier this month, having conceded a stream of set-piece penalties after Joe Marler and Dan Cole, their starting props, were replaced.

Asked about the prospects of Ehren Painter, who arrived at Exeter from Northampton Saints this season, Baxter launched into an extended observation on how the scrum has been refereed in the Premiership, as well as how that area of the game is covered by media.

Painter, 25, represented England against the Barbarians in 2019. The tighthead prop helped force a pushover penalty try for Exeter against Sale Sharks last weekend and Baxter saluted his influence before confronting wider issues.

"Ehren's been fantastic," Baxter said. "He's a guy who's working exceptionally hard and getting his rewards for being part of an eight that are going well and buying into things together. Without a doubt, it's going to be hard not to see him as one of the top scrummaging tightheads in the Premiership. Let's see what happens.

"We've probably got to make a sea change as a sport that we all need to be talking about the scrum being a big part of the game and not a hindrance. Without doubt, we've forced a situation, whether it's been TV or media, where we don't want scrums. Potentially, we've been found out for it now when we've got to the international stage.

"We don't have to try to force referees to make a decision at every single scrum. You do that, and you start getting props rewarded for just trickery, really. That's got to stop. If you want to develop scrummaging props, we have to start deciding that we like scrums, that we want them to be a big contest, that we want them to happen.

"I thought our referee against Sale [Joe James] refereed them really, really well. He allowed re-sets to happen when they should have been re-sets. That meant there was a really, really good scrummaging contest. He made decisions on what was actually happening rather than rushing into decisions that didn't have to be made. If we can work towards that, we'll see a growth of scrummaging props. But we won't get it [otherwise]."

The Rugby Football Union recently staged its inaugural camp for promising tight-five forwards, in part to accelerate the development of potential internationals, and Baxter believes the selection of Marler and Cole to face the Springboks was another indication of England being left behind by other nations.



"When you get rewarded for not scrummaging, which has been happening for quite a few years, you're not going to develop scrummaging props," Baxter added. "When you look at how England needed to go back to two senior props, who used to be rewarded for scrummaging, you can see how different things need to be.

"That's all of us as a game. Media play a part as well. If you've got someone on the TV who's moaning every time there's a scrum, that doesn't make anybody think scrums are good. That isn't how you develop scrummaging props, by complaining every time there is a scrum.

"In France and South Africa, they love seeing scrums. They are highlights of the game. That's why they develop props. It doesn't happen by accident. It happens because the whole game is focused on it. That takes pressure off the referees to make snap decisions. We are so geared towards thinking that ball-in-play creates great rugby that we are shooting ourselves in the foot. We've got to re-adapt."

Baxter will ensure that props at Exeter are left in no doubt as to their chief responsibilities.

"You put things in priority," he added. "The priorities are maybe set-piece, then maybe defence, then clear-out skills. If they go all the way through to being a guy who can run a try in from 50 metres, fantastic, but that isn't going to be priority number one. That's going to be a long way down the list.

"I would think that if you looked at the props playing for South Africa, are those the distributors and midfield steppers playing for other countries? But they've won World Cups consistently and they're right at the top of the world game. There are priorities there, and some people are getting it wrong and some are getting it right."
 
"You put things in priority," he added. "The priorities are maybe set-piece, then maybe defence, then clear-out skills. If they go all the way through to being a guy who can run a try in from 50 metres, fantastic, but that isn't going to be priority number one. That's going to be a long way down the list.

Think back to Chiefs when we won the champions cup and prem, this is definitely what we prioritised. Maul was a weapon, would keep the ball and trust our ruck clearing of the whole team.

It makes sense to prioritise set piece as they are launch pads. And then rucks clear outs help you keep the ball.

I do wonder what SB's priorities are going forward and what they were in the WC(and how they differ)
 
I'm bias but that is just pure magic from Baxter. So many pundits appear to just want a version of League/Tag on the pitch.



On topic; Bristol appear to be the real **** this season so Sunday's game looks like it might be a real test. I just hope the young Chiefs can keep the momentum and win with the style they have been putting out there. The positive attitude of fans is amazing at the moment - a world away from last season.
 
Can't argue with Baxter. The scrum is a weapon and the demoralising effect of a stuffed scrum ripples through a whole team.

As for Borthwick, he'll know you're not regularly going to reach the pinnacle without a powerful front 5. His selection for the SF said as much. But it's mainly up to others to develop that talent for him to select from.
 
Let's go Gloucester! 1698981036650.png
 
Can't argue with Baxter. The scrum is a weapon and the demoralising effect of a stuffed scrum ripples through a whole team.

As for Borthwick, he'll know you're not regularly going to reach the pinnacle without a powerful front 5. His selection for the SF said as much. But it's mainly up to others to develop that talent for him to select from.
Only the first paragraph was Baxter, it was me in the second paragraph(but im sure Baxter would agree with me its a weapon haha)

If your destroyed at the scrum then you cant drop a ball
If your destoryed at your own lineout, you cant let the ball go into touch
If your destroyed at the maul you cant give away a penalty

100% set piece is demoralising and a weapon.
 
Even more than that … usually your opponent knocking the ball on is a good thing. Not if they have your scrum on toast. In those situations you're screwed because the opposing side is even benefiting from making mistakes.
 
Maybe this is in my head but there did seem a shift a few years ago (can't exactly remember) where 'mobility' was the key and we saw forwards in general in the prem seem smaller and the game ran at a faster pace.

We (saints) used to have one of the best packs around with a monster scrum and props that did prop stuff, scrum hard, tackle hard and make the offload in open play. For some reason we ended up with small weak props who can just about hold their own and look tiny in comparison to proper props but are 'mobile'.

For this weekend I'm really not looking forward t hosting bath, they are going to tear us apart in the second half.
 
You got Mako, Sinkler who could handle the ball, genge who was the baby rhino. Big but not scrum first everything else second, gain scrum parity and this is arguably better than a Dan Cole/Marler but then you come up against them and all that great lose play is useless, so pros and cons 100%.
 
Maybe this is in my head but there did seem a shift a few years ago (can't exactly remember) where 'mobility' was the key and we saw forwards in general in the prem seem smaller and the game ran at a faster pace.
Yeah, there absolutely was - everyone wanted three backrowers in the front row and setpiece be damned

Did it come in when they got rid of the crouch-touch-pause-engage? People thought the "set" meant you didn't need big boys in the front row and it'd be all technique so they started slimming everyone down

Wonder if part of it is also how many kids want to play in the front row? Like 16yr olds who have the making of top level athletes - are they thinking "I want to get up to 25st and scrummage" or do they think "I want to be 17st and play backrow"
 

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