Spring Tour:New Zealand vs Ireland - 1st Test. (09/06/2012, 08:35 GMT)

[coonor]

Murray was simply rubbish. I used to defend but now I can not see how he fits into the team. I think the shoreline was unfair considering how competetive Ireland were up front, in the set piece and at the breakdown but everyone knows that when you give NZ a sniff theyre going to slaughter you. By kicking the ball deep we gave them easy counter attacking opportunities and with players like Dagg and Savea no wonder they scored so many tries. We didn't take our opportunities and paid the price for it.

Next game:
-Reddan has to start!
- We can't kick deep and allow them to run the ball back. All kicks must find touch or be followed by a competetive chase.
- Let's start playing off ten! We did it in the first 10 minutes and we looked dangerous but then we just stopped.
- Ball retention has to be better.... If the All Blacks anything over 50% of possession then they will put us to the sword again. You can't just rely on defending against the All Blacks.

 

[Sneaki]

Great to see Aaron Smith playing well. I can't wait until they pick Perenara too (just a matter of time surely), will be an awesome halfback combination, and definitely a lot more impact off the bench than we saw last night, regardless of which of them starts.

Does anyone know what the Irish were blowing up about after Savea scored his second try (about 36min)? Two Irish players (the two players whose tackles Savea broke to score the try) were going off at Nigel Owens while the TMO was telling him to award the try. BOD came over and had something to say too, and Owens said he would talk to them in a moment, but we never heard what it was about.

I assumed they were just trying to convince the referees that Savea has been held up, or put his foot in touch.

 

[HB Scot]

Listening to talksport radio here in NZ and the majority of Kiwis calling reasonably pleased with their lot... although there is that odd fan not entirely pleased. Many complaining that SWB, Gilford and McCaw were poor, which is typical of Kiwi fans, because they are always looking for the perfect performance. The AB coaching staff will and should be happy with their first up effort espcially from Smith at 9 and Savea on the wing. McCaw led well without being fantastic, but Reed and Vito were outstanding.
Not sure what Ireland can do to salvage anything from this series, for me the AB's will only get better and with the possibly additon of Nonu and Jane to their starting 15 will only increase the homes sides attacking threat.

 

[big ginger 8]

Have to say NZ were smart in how they neutralized Kearney. Every kick off or Garryowen there was a number of player intelligently staying in his way stopping what we've come to think of as a guarantee return of possession.

 

[profitius]

Just wondering if B.O.D is intending to play on till the next RWC. If not who would be looking at replacing him?. He will be what 36 by the next RWC and for me I tend to think that he will retire from international rugby prior to then. Even prehaps after this tour to give another player a shot, I don't know.

Eoin Griffin, Earls and Cave are the main contenders so far.

 

[irelandfan123]

Why is everyone harping about BOD to go did he have a bad game? from the highlights I saw he ate through a lot of defensive work and that was only highlights saved a try and had a lovely ankle tap on Dagg too

 

[Darwin]

Why is everyone harping about BOD to go did he have a bad game? from the highlights I saw he ate through a lot of defensive work and that was only highlights saved a try and had a lovely ankle tap on Dagg too

I don't think anyone is suggesting BOD should be dropped at all. I think people are just acknowledging that he is 33, and won't be around forever, so it would be a good idea to identify someone who can replace him when he eventually retires (though that may still be a few years away yet, I'm not really sure...). In terms of his performance: he had a very solid game in a backline that didn't get that much quality ball.

 

[nickdnz]

Agree entirely with points 1,2,3,4,6,8, and 10 (though didn't think Ali Williams was really that bad when he came on). I think it is too early to make a judgement on McCaw yet, as he is getting back to his best (though do agree we need to blood someone soon!). The only point I disagree with is point 7 (no surprised there!). What exactly did Guildford do so wrong in this game? He didn't get the opportunities that Savea got, but worked hard, defended well, and didn't make any errors (that I can recall). He certainly didn't have a storming game like Savea, but he was very solid, and I'm sure will get more chances in the next match if continues to work hard. I'm also not sure what Ben Smith did this match to suggest he lacked pace? He ran the ball twice - on his first run he made it well past the advantage line, and on his second he went past two defenders and made a great offload to put Carter into the gap. I can't remember a single time in the game he was found wanting for pace ?!?!?!



No only you have this special power, as you have the first post in the thread

Right, my thoughts on the game. Very happy with the performance of the AB's in there first match - they certainly weren't perfect, but it was a pretty convincing start to the season.

The tight 5 was solid: Retallick was pretty quiet on debut, but did a lot of work cleaning out around the breakdown, which is just want I want from my TH lock. The NZ lineout functioned exceptionally well, which is great to see! McCaws handling let him down on occasions, but he made good yards with ball in hand. Vito was solid, but a wee bit quiet (hopefully he gets more chances next week), while Read had moments of brilliance (as he often does these days).

There were a number of stars in the backline, starting with Aaron Smith. As I predicted Smith really added another dimension to the AB's backline with his passing game - it was noticeable how the game pace slowed when Weepu replaced him! Smith also looked dangerous with a few darts round the base of the ruck, which he needs to keep doing to make sure defenders don't simply fan out wide early. It was great to see Carter back in black, and playing some superb rugby. His defense was exceptional, and I was incredibly impressed with his goal-kicking (after looking a bit shaky early in the season). Cruden looked good too when he came on. SBW had a mixed game as mentioned by Nick - his defense and straight running were good, but his handling let him down. He should get a chance to redeem himself next week. Smith lead the AB's backline defense brilliantly, and was rewarded with a try at the end. Savea was brilliant - he recovered very well from the mistake he made with the first touch of the ball! I was particularily impressed with his defense and handling - he was unrecognizable from the nervous lad who struggled with the step-up to Super Rugby last season. Not sure what happens to Dagg in test rugby, but he played easily his best game of the season. Sure he made a few mistakes (passing too early to Guildford was one example), but he was devastating with ball in hand, and his punting was impressive too. Ben Smith looked very sharp when he came on, and may even be given a chance on the right-wing next week (as he is not going to displace Dagg at fullback!).

I thought Ireland did ok up front - they certainly weren't destroyed in the scrums as some had predicted. Hopefully the injury to Cian Healy isn't too serious, as they can't afford to loose another top prop! I wasn't overly impressed with Tuohy, but thought Ryan had a good game at lock - he certainly has a big work-rate. O'Mahony was pretty quiet, and I thought Heaslip tried hard but wasn't really given the platform to be effective. O'Brien is and interesting one: he make a huge number of runs and tackles, and was quite effective at the breakdown, but whenever I watch him he looks umm......small. He certainly runs hard, but he seemed to lack the size to get over the advantage line - looking at his stats he is not a small player, so I'm not quite sure why I think he looks small!

Murray was a bit ponderous at the back of the breakdown (though got poor ball to work with) - he plays like Mike Phillips but is 15kg too light! I thought Reddan looked much better when he came on. I remain unconvinced with the O'Driscoll/Earls pairing in the midfield. I thought both the wings were very solid, but neither really got many chances (apart from McFaddens try). Kearney looked good when he was given space, but unfourtunately (for Ireland) he wasn't given much room to move.

Nice reply.


What Guildford did that annoys me isn't new. His work off the ball is good, but he actually looked a bit uncertain under the high ball (one was pretty obviously knock on but they said it went sideways). He's supposed to be very solid and he wasn't. Also when he got the ball, he did the same old shitty, jog to the line, jump around trying to sidestep and eventually get driven back. I hate that so much. If there isn't anything on then you have to hit the line hard to make the advantage line and he didn't, and doesn't ever. It wasn't his worst game, but I certainly feel any other outside back in the squad is a better option.

Ben Smith didn't have a bad game by any means (prefered him to Guildford). He's got great elusive running and he darts around very well. I just think that there was a couple of times he got past the defense and didn't have the top end pace to capitalise himself. As I've said I think he's a great utility option as I think he's one of the best fullbacks in the country and could be a very handy centre option, but it's usually his decision making and silky skills I like rather than top end pace and finishing, where I think there are a number of wingers who are better. For me I think he should get that 22 spot as a permanent thing, as he offer similar utility as Toeava but seems more safe at this level.

As for Ali Williams, he didn't get much time. What he did manage to do in his limited time was kill the All Blacks ball going for the try line when there was no chance he was going to make it, rather than recycle quickly. Not a shocker but he'd certainly be no where near my squad.

Speaking of Aaron Smith, does anyone else think he looked comfortable enough for the coaches to invest in picking either Peranara or Kerr-Barlow for the Rugby Championship to replace Weepu? Weepu still looks slow and out of shape and Aaron Smith looked like lightening out there. He seems a very safe and skillful option so I'd really like to see a different halfback take Weepu's role and a new one would be ideal.

 

[TheCharacter]

Speaking of Aaron Smith, does anyone else think he looked comfortable enough for the coaches to invest in picking either Peranara or Kerr-Barlow for the Rugby Championship to replace Weepu? Weepu still looks slow and out of shape and Aaron Smith looked like lightening out there. He seems a very safe and skillful option so I'd really like to see a different halfback take Weepu's role and a new one would be ideal.

I would assume there will be three half-backs in the Rugby Championship squad, and if Weepu doesn't impress in this Ireland series then he won't be one of them. In his time off the bench I thought he looked better than he has all year, but still way off the pace of the other options we have.

 

[nickdnz]

I would assume there will be three half-backs in the Rugby Championship squad, and if Weepu doesn't impress in this Ireland series then he won't be one of them. In his time off the bench I thought he looked better than he has all year, but still way off the pace of the other options we have.

I think that's as much to do with being behind a dominant forward pack with Carter outside him than his own real progress. His passes were probably a bit better but he still takes quite a while to get to each ruck.

 

[HB Scot]

Aaron Smith is only going to get better-Barlow at Test level, which in turn can only bode well for the AB's longterm . NZ have struggled at nine for few years,but with Smith, TJ Panenarra and Kerr-Barlow means they have unvailednow got three excellent options at scrum half heading twards 2015.

 

[Dizzy]

I agree with Nick, Zac Guildford doesn't do enough to be awarded an All Black shirt. Yes I know he is injury cover, and I will admit he's probably one of the best at keeping in support although he wasn't as good in this game, BUT, Guildford can't beat a man one on one which is something that pretty much EVERY NZ outside back is capable of doing. When Dagg gave Guildford that early pass, he could've tried to run back infield or even started running in field before the pass was given, and even the try McFadden scored, where was our cover defense from his wing?.. It was a tired Dagg trying to get back, Guildford was nowhere to be found.

And I think Hansen should give Nonu the 12 jersey this week and put SBW on the bench. SBW had a less than average game, he was well handled by the Irish and early in the game found it hard to make the advantage line, the one major handling error he made was something NO All Black should make especially in your own 22m, there was even a time where he took the ball against the run of play to no avail when there was possibly something on out wide, Nonu would have threw a brilliant pass out wide and overall I believe Nonu would have made more opportunities for the backline.

 

[nickdnz]

One thing I will say about McCaw, no one takes physical abuse in their stride as well as him. Cian Healy should be cited and miss the rest of the tour for punching McCaw.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1b4wHF_tqQ

Check out 3:12. Cian Healy just winds up a punch on McCaw while he's on the ground (not unlike Heaslips knee drives to McCaw's head last time). I'd think he should miss the rest of the tour to be honest. McCaw is amazing he just takes it and doesn't cost his team. If Brad Thorn was still around for the All Blacks, Healey would be sipping through a straw for the remainder of the tour. Sadly we don't really have an enforcer anymore.

 

[Darwin]

I agree with Nick, Zac Guildford doesn't do enough to be awarded an All Black shirt. Yes I know he is injury cover, and I will admit he's probably one of the best at keeping in support although he wasn't as good in this game, BUT, Guildford can't beat a man one on one which is something that pretty much EVERY NZ outside back is capable of doing. When Dagg gave Guildford that early pass, he could've tried to run back infield or even started running in field before the pass was given, and even the try McFadden scored, where was our cover defense from his wing?.. It was a tired Dagg trying to get back, Guildford was nowhere to be found.

Guildford had just made a hit-up infield from an in-pass by Carter. He had just got up and started heading back towards his wing when Carter botched his kick through - I know Guildford is fast, but it is ridiculous to suggest he should have been chasing back in cover! Even if he was deep on his wing and had chased back it wouldn't have made any difference - Dagg was in the middle of the field (rather than on the far wing) and didn't even get close to McFadden....

I think that's as much to do with being behind a dominant forward pack with Carter outside him than his own real progress. His passes were probably a bit better but he still takes quite a while to get to each ruck.

He then spends what seems like an eternity waiting for the opposition to re-organize their defense before passing the ball out (which caused me to abuse him through my TV screen...). One of the major keys to the AB's success in this match was the quick ball Smith delivered - when Weepu went to halfback the game slowed right down. If the AB's want an experience halfback I'd be happy enough to have Ellis on the bench, but I do think both Smith and Perenara are mature enough already to be the two AB's halfbacks....

Nice reply.

What Guildford did that annoys me isn't new. His work off the ball is good, but he actually looked a bit uncertain under the high ball (one was pretty obviously knock on but they said it went sideways). He's supposed to be very solid and he wasn't. Also when he got the ball, he did the same old shitty, jog to the line, jump around trying to sidestep and eventually get driven back. I hate that so much. If there isn't anything on then you have to hit the line hard to make the advantage line and he didn't, and doesn't ever. It wasn't his worst game, but I certainly feel any other outside back in the squad is a better option.

Guildford dropped one high ball, and I disagree that it was an obvious knock-on. It was sideways at worst, and probably a little backwards. See 3.30 mins into these highlights:

I certainly don't think he is perfect under the high ball, but he is generally pretty sounds (except for Brisbane last year!).

In terms of Guildfords habit of slowing down before contact, I agree this is frustrating. I didn't think he was that guilty of it this match though. He hit the line hard off a couple off Carter in-passes (but was well contained) - he needs to keep doing this...

Ben Smith didn't have a bad game by any means (prefered him to Guildford). He's got great elusive running and he darts around very well. I just think that there was a couple of times he got past the defense and didn't have the top end pace to capitalise himself. As I've said I think he's a great utility option as I think he's one of the best fullbacks in the country and could be a very handy centre option, but it's usually his decision making and silky skills I like rather than top end pace and finishing, where I think there are a number of wingers who are better. For me I think he should get that 22 spot as a permanent thing, as he offer similar utility as Toeava but seems more safe at this level.

I can't recall these occasions at all. According to the stats Smith only had two runs in the game (see: http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match16731.html or http://www.espnscrum.com/ireland-tour-2012/rugby/match/153842.html) - the first was a hitup from a lineout (or scrum?) close to Ireland's line (might have been just before the try that Ali Williams tried to get). The second one was the final play of the game (also in the video) when he went between Zebo and Best and offloaded in the immediate tackle of Reddan. Neither occasion he had any room to move or show any pace (or lack there-of).

As an aside, it looks like Vito is in doubt for the 2nd test with a knee injury.

 

[nickdnz]

Guildford had just made a hit-up infield from an in-pass by Carter. He had just got up and started heading back towards his wing when Carter botched his kick through - I know Guildford is fast, but it is ridiculous to suggest he should have been chasing back in cover! Even if he was deep on his wing and had chased back it wouldn't have made any difference - Dagg was in the middle of the field (rather than on the far wing) and didn't even get close to McFadden....

In terms of Guildfords habit of slowing down before contact, I agree this is frustrating. I didn't think he was that guilty of it this match though. He hit the line hard off a couple off Carter in-passes (but was well contained) - he needs to keep doing this...


I can't recall these occasions at all. According to the stats Smith only had two runs in the game (see: http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match16731.html or http://www.espnscrum.com/ireland-tour-2012/rugby/match/153842.html) - the first was a hitup from a lineout (or scrum?) close to Ireland's line (might have been just before the try that Ali Williams tried to get). The second one was the final play of the game (also in the video) when he went between Zebo and Best and offloaded in the immediate tackle of Reddan. Neither occasion he had any room to move or show any pace (or lack there-of).

As an aside, it looks like Vito is in doubt for the 2nd test with a knee injury.

The time I was thinking of was the final play, but looking at it again I think I was a bit harsh. I didn't remember seeing the Irish 20 go for the tackle, I thought it was a clean break which he offloaded to Carter too early.

According to those stats, Guildford made 5 runs for 27m...That's not good, especially when you consider Savea made 8 runs for 127m and Israel Dagg made 6 runs for 128m. Even Ben Franks made more metres. Looking at his stats he really didn't contribute to anything really.

 

[smartcooky]

... I think Hansen should give Nonu the 12 jersey this week and put SBW on the bench. SBW had a less than average game, he was well handled by the Irish and early in the game found it hard to make the advantage line, the one major handling error he made was something NO All Black should make especially in your own 22m, there was even a time where he took the ball against the run of play to no avail when there was possibly something on out wide, Nonu would have threw a brilliant pass out wide and overall I believe Nonu would have made more opportunities for the backline.

Oh you must be kidding, right? Ma'a' "battering ram" Nonu throw a wide pass? He hasn't managed to do that regularly for the Blues this season, even against weak opposition. What earth makes you think that would change in an AB jersey.

You must be one of the "hate SBW no matter what he does" brigade. He is the form 12 in New Zealand at the moment, with (Ryan Crotty second IMO). In the Chiefs v Blues clash last week, SBW totally and completely outplayed Nonu. He even stripped Nonu of the ball on his feet a couple of times.

I thought SBW played pretty well last night. Sure he made a couple of mistakes because if he is going to carry the ball in such a way that the offload is on, then there is always the risk that he might cough it up. The one-handed backhand inside pass to Carter that led to Savea's first try was an absolute peach, but it was an example of what he wouldn't be able to do so easily if he carried the ball with 100% security... its a case of risk and reward; the benefits of his silky ball skills outweigh the drawback of the occasional lapse.

Shag reckons his understanding of the game has improved beyond belief since he's been with the Chiefs, and its no coincidence that this is due to Wayne Smith's second year of being able to influence him and the way he thinks. SBW adjusted the way he was playing last night when he worked out that what he was doing wasn't having the desired effect.

 

[Darwin]

According to those stats, Guildford made 5 runs for 27m...That's not good, especially when you consider Savea made 8 runs for 127m and Israel Dagg made 6 runs for 128m. Even Ben Franks made more metres. Looking at his stats he really didn't contribute to anything really.

There seems to be big discrepancy between the two stats sources (the scrum.com ones have him making 40m from 9 runs). I tend to favour the Scrum.com ones, as I'm sure Guildford made more than 5 runs. In any case you are correct that he didn't make many metres, though he didn't get the ball in space at any stage during the match. Nearly every time he got the ball it was from an inside pass from Carter or SBW, and he was very well covered (hence didn't make any metres). I can remember him getting in on the wing twice - once he had no room to move and did very well to pass to his support inside, and the second time was when Dagg failed to draw the final defender before passing him the ball. Savea was given far more space by his team-mates (though did create space for himself with a great linebreak), so it is no surprise he ran more metres! There are times as a wing that the ball doesn't go your way - it can even happen to the great Hosea Gear (in his last test match - versus South Africa - he made 8 runs for only 27m ).

 

[Sam Owen]

Ireland was dissapointing. I thought theyd lose but not like that. Theyre better than that.

Good first game for the world champs. Theyll only get better but so will the Irish.

 

[welshglory]

Did anyone else notice Cian Healy's "lifting" tackle and then smash on the ground on Sonny Bill? Surely if there's any consistency he'll get a citing

 

[donmcdazzle]

Did anyone else notice Cian Healy's "lifting" tackle and then smash on the ground on Sonny Bill? Surely if there's any consistency he'll get a citing

Combine that with his cheap shot on McCaw he should be on the sideline for the rest of the tour. Cheap shot artist who is a sore loser obviously.