Spring Tour: New Zealand vs Ireland - 3rd Test. (23/6/2012, 07:35 GMT)

[admartian]

I like this team it's pretty good considering Read and Carter are out, I think it has better balance with the Physicality of Messam and Romano.

But I dont like how McCaw at 8 I think messam would be a better option. I still dont understand the resistance to putting McCaw at 6. Cane to 7 McCaw to 6 and Messam to 8 seems lkike the logical thing to do. The only reason I can think of is that #8 is more of a playmaker position recieving the ball from the scrum and messam wont be up on the plays as he's not been in the squad long.

other than that I like the 22. I think Ben Smith should have been one of the wingers from the start, I would have kept Hika Elliot maybe even started him and I would have considered Ellison Ahead of Gear on the other wing for this match.

Also very interesting we have got to match 3 and still no Nonu. I think the coaches/selectors think more than anything Nonu needs a few weeks off.

For the future I think the coaches should look at the makeup of this squad, 5 props and only 5 loose forwards. I think for some time now clearly loose forwards are more likely to get injured and also having more loose forwards in the squad offers tactical options more than prop options. Maybe they should go back to 6 loose forwards.

I agree with McCaw at 6, Messam at 8, and Cane at 7. Head scratcher there.

Also, Nonu at 12 considering the changes made anyway, would've been wise to add more experience to the backline. Again, mind boggling.

If I see another "no pressure knock on", I really wish SBW doesn't play the RC as a starter. SA and AUS will PUNISH that **** brutally. No offence Ireland.

He's not a guy I want in pressure situations (see dumb penalty in the smis against the RWC last year). Against Scotalnd, Italy, or Samoa? Sure. let hm loose. Heck, let him play at 10. But not for this last match where the Irish look dangerous, or not for the RC where the Boks and Wallabies will capitalise.

Other thing is that I wouldn't have taken out Savea. I would've kept him there to see if he can bounce back, and replace Zac with Ben Smith or Hosea.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I think they've probably kept SBW there because of his partnership with Cruden - you've now got a strong 9, 10, 12 axis with Smith and Cruden partners at Manawatu.

 

[Darwin]

New Zealand: 15-Israel Dagg; 14-Ben Smith, 13-Conrad Smith, 12-Sonny Bill Williams, 11-Hosea Gear; 10-Aaron Cruden, 9-Aaron Smith; 8-Richie McCaw (captain), 7-Sam Cane, 6-Liam Messam, 5-Sam Whitelock, 4-Luke Romano, 3-Owen Franks, 2-Andrew Hore, 1-Tony Woodcock
Replacements: 16-Keven Mealamu, 17-Ben Franks, 18-Brodie Retallick, 19-Adam Thomson, 20-Piri Weepu, 21-Beauden Barrett, 22-Tamati Ellison

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/rugby-zealand-team-idUKL3E8HK4GH20120620

14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith
:bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana:

In case anyone isn't aware, I'm pretty excited that Ben Smith is starting!

Despite not quite being a full strength team, I like the look of the 22. The front-row is at full strength, and it will be interesting to see how Romano goes at lock. I quite like Romano, and he adds another powerful ball runner to the pack. I can see the logic in pairing him with his Canterbury and Crusaders team-mate too, rather than going into the test with two virtual rookies starting at lock. I'm not sure what they are doing with the loose-trio: good to see Cane get a start after a promising debut last week, but as others have mentioned it seems a bit strange to play McCaw at 8 and Messam at 6. I wonder whether they will switch around a bit during the match?

Disappointing to see Carter ruled out, but I'm pretty excited to see Aaron Cruden getting another start at test level. He as been in superb form all season, and I'm sure he will relish the chance of playing outside his Manawatu team-mate Aaron Smith, and inside his Chiefs team-mate SBW. He is almost unrecognizable from the kid that made a nervous debut a couple of years ago, and I think`he is more than ready to stamp his mark on the international stage. I'm slightly surprised to see both wings changed, but am delighted to see Ben Smith in the starting 15 (and I'm sure nickdnz will be equally excited to see Hosea Gear there too). It will be interesting to see Barrett and Ellison should they get a chance, though I'd be surprised if Barrett sees much game-time unless the AB's have a big lead (or Cruden gets injured).

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Now that I think about it, it's probably a good thing that Retaick's getting a bit of a rest, considering he's only missed one game for the Chiefs this season so far - he's had a huge workload for a rookie player!

Good to see the match is sold out all ready!

 

[killer08]

Backs: Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, BOD, Paddy Wallace (FFS), Keith Earls, Jono Sexton and Conor Murray,
Forwards:Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross, D Ryan, Dan Touhy, Keven McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien and Peter O'Mahony
Subs : Sean Cronin, Declan Fitzpatrick, D O'Callaghan, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ronan O'Gara and Andrew Trimble

was hoping SOB would start 8 but looks like he's our new 7 for good, paddy wallace at centre is boring and predictable DK, would have liked to have seen more of ROG sexton BOD or some more of cave but we didnt really bring another fly half so yh

 

[smartcooky]

I agree with McCaw at 6, Messam at 8, and Cane at 7. Head scratcher there.

I agree, that is puzzling, although Messam's best position is 6, and whenever he has played 8, he hasn't played well; probably why he's become the "Matthew Sinclair" of NZ rugby

Also, Nonu at 12 considering the changes made anyway, would've been wise to add more experience to the backline. Again, mind boggling.

If I see another "no pressure knock on", I really wish SBW doesn't play the RC as a starter. SA and AUS will PUNISH that **** brutally. No offence Ireland.

He's not a guy I want in pressure situations (see dumb penalty in the smis against the RWC last year). Against Scotalnd, Italy, or Samoa? Sure. let hm loose. Heck, let him play at 10. But not for this last match where the Irish look dangerous, or not for the RC where the Boks and Wallabies will capitalise.

So you will be applying that same standard to McCaw then?

Other thing is that I wouldn't have taken out Savea. I would've kept him there to see if he can bounce back, and replace Zac with Ben Smith or Hosea.

I'll go along with that... for now.

 

[Jockstap]

Backs: Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, BOD, Paddy Wallace (FFS), Keith Earls, Jono Sexton and Conor Murray,
Forwards:Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross, D Ryan, Dan Touhy, Keven McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien and Peter O'Mahony
Subs : Sean Cronin, Declan Fitzpatrick, D O'Callaghan, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ronan O'Gara and Andrew Trimble

was hoping SOB would start 8 but looks like he's our new 7 for good, paddy wallace at centre is boring and predictable DK, would have liked to have seen more of ROG sexton BOD or some more of cave but we didnt really bring another fly half so yh

In fairness to Wallace he's been in excellent form and always seems to play well against New Zealand. I'm looking forward to seeing how O'Mahony goes at 8 as I reckon it's his best position. Still, New Zealand by 20, I don't think Ireland will have anything left in the tank after last week.

 

[admartian]

I think they've probably kept SBW there because of his partnership with Cruden - you've now got a strong 9, 10, 12 axis with Smith and Cruden partners at Manawatu.

I get that, makes sense.

An Aaron Smith/Cruden AND Nonu/Conrad Smith combos would've just looked as good, if not better, too.

I agree, that is puzzling, although Messam's best position is 6, and whenever he has played 8, he hasn't played well; probably why he's become the "Matthew Sinclair" of NZ rugby



So you will be applying that same standard to McCaw then?
.

I will be apply that same standard actually.

But unfortunately for SBW, McCaw has had 10+ years and 100+ caps of service (and almost un-parralleled service at that) on his side. Whereas I can't even count on SBW to stay until the end of tomorrow let alone try and reach that milestone...! :lol:

Sorry, but McCaw has earned that privilege - just like Tom Brady can throw an interception or three (or make a number of mistakes) because he's won superbowls and has been nothing but a leader and a true worker and warrior for the Patriots (even though I dislike the team/guy); can't say the same for a "promising" QB like Matt Ryan etc.

My point is, while it's not ideal for ANY knock ons/other mistakes to happen; we know McCaw can play well and has backed that up consistently before and he has more than made up for them in other areas. And proven it to ALL teams CONSISTENTLY and not just teams like Scotland too. :lol:

 

[nickdnz]

15-Israel Dagg; 14-Ben Smith, 13-Conrad Smith, 12-Sonny Bill Williams, 11-Hosea Gear; 10-Aaron Cruden, 9-Aaron Smith; 8-Richie McCaw (captain), 7-Sam Cane, 6-Liam Messam, 5-Sam Whitelock, 4-Luke Romano, 3-Owen Franks, 2-Andrew Hore, 1-Tony Woodcock
Replacements: 16-Keven Mealamu, 17-Ben Franks, 18-Brodie Retallick, 19-Adam Thomson, 20-Piri Weepu, 21-Beauden Barrett, 22-Tamati Ellison

Don't think I have any original points to make, but I'm pretty nervous for this test.

Luke Romano is still a better player than Ali Williams so I'm not worried with him starting, especially with Brodie Rettallick coming from the bench.

As others have pointed out, the 6. Messam, 7. Cane, 8. McCaw seems pretty wrong. I don't think McCaw has the pace to play at 8 and has never been an especially danagerous ball runner. For me, he needs to make the transition to blindside, especially considering I don't think he's quick enough to be as effective a 7 any more and Kieran Read will be out #8 for at least another three years. 6. McCaw, 7. Cane, 8. Messam would have been ideal.

Aaron Cruden in for Daniel Carter is both very exciting and nerve racking. Had to be made because of injury which is a shame. Aaron Cruden certainly deserves this shot, been the best 10 in Super Rugby and does't have many obvious flaws. That being said, with the number of changes, I'm always going to be nervous when we don't have Daniel Carter. Also happy to see Beuden Barrett on the bench. If we're a couple of tries up with twenty minutes left, woudndn't be unhappy to see him get a run on.

Not suprised to see Nonu miss out. The reason he's not included is the reason the coaches have said he wouldn't be included from the beginning. They're giving him a break to get back to form.

The back three make me pretty happy. Someone/Anyone has replaced Zac Guildford which is good and as much as I like Julian Savea, Gear has certainly eared an oppertunity to start. With any luck he'll score a hattrick and we'll have the most unbalanced but superpowered wing combo since Jonah Lomu and Joeli Vidiri in Gear and Savea. Also be good to see Ben Smith start. Certainly is a lively runner and hopefully I'll be totally wrong about his top pace.

Ellison on the bench is also good, although I hope like hell he doesn't play in the back three, as he a much better midfield option and I've never liked him on the wing. Good to see Kevin Mealamu return although I can't help but feel they pretty much wasted a chance at improving Hika Elliot who wasn't awful when he's come on. We're not really testing out new hooker and our existing ones can't have much more than a season or two left in them. Want to see Mealamu hit 100 caps this season, but then it's time we look at starting new hookers.

 

[irelandfan123]

Backs: Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, BOD, Paddy Wallace (FFS), Keith Earls, Jono Sexton and Conor Murray,
Forwards:Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross, D Ryan, Dan Touhy, Keven McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien and Peter O'Mahony
Subs : Sean Cronin, Declan Fitzpatrick, D O'Callaghan, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ronan O'Gara and Andrew Trimble

was hoping SOB would start 8 but looks like he's our new 7 for good, paddy wallace at centre is boring and predictable DK, would have liked to have seen more of ROG sexton BOD or some more of cave but we didnt really bring another fly half so yh

In fairness to Mincer he has been playing rather well lately, wasn't to bad in his last outing starting 12 either, I don't think he has had a bad game in a while. I didn't like the partnership of having Drico 13 but actually 12. He looked very stale and didn't have as much time on the ball as he did last week when playing outside centre.

Sexton is the way forward it will be important to have him build confidence at 10 instead of being a makeshift 12 based on two or three decent last quarters of a game. Also to drop O'Mahony from the 15 and slot in someone that hasn't had too much international game time in the last few weeks would be a very harsh call by DK.

Woulda liked to see Reddan start but there is only so much you can ask from DK and the squad he has atm I can actually live with.

P.S. Has Paddy Wallace ever had a bad game at 10? I mean he looked solid for Ulster and I think the games he played for Ireland starting 10 is a 100% win record even if it is only few and against crappy opposition

EDIT: Wallace has only really made a few major mistakes at twelve granted they were game changing moments but I think he isn't given the credit he deserves, also gotta be a ball buster for Zebo being dropped from the 22

 

[irelandfan123]

14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith.
14-Ben Smith
:bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana::bana:
In case anyone isn't aware, I'm pretty excited that Ben Smith is starting!

Really!?!?! :lol:

 

[admartian]

Despite Ben Smith's perceived lack of pace, I tihnk he's pretty good at attacking the gaps in the defence. I'll take a guy like that any day.

 

[Larksea]

I'm looking forward to seeing ben smith get another shot as well, I think his lack of pase is being overstated by some here the reality is though no he's not fijian fast he has enough heck he's what #2 or #3 in running meters in super rugby? I think the way he runs the ball is really unique, he has a huge amount of energy and they way he runs he has defenders in a panic before he gets to the line and he creates oportunities around him.

 

[Big Ewis]

wow...a few guys missin for the AB's huh ?

 

[big ginger 8]

As no one has being arsed to post it the Irish team is:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Tuohy
5. Ryan
6. McLaughlin
7. O'Brien
8. O'Mahony
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll
14. McFadden
15. Kearney

16. Cronin 17. Fitzpatrick 18. O'Callaghan 19. Henry 20. Reddan 21. O'Gara 22. Trimble

I'm really not sure how to fell about it both happy and unhappy about it.

 

[irelandfan123]

As no one has being arsed to post it the Irish team is:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Tuohy
5. Ryan
6. McLaughlin
7. O'Brien
8. O'Mahony
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll
14. McFadden
15. Kearney

16. Cronin 17. Fitzpatrick 18. O'Callaghan 19. Henry 20. Reddan 21. O'Gara 22. Trimble

I'm really not sure how to fell about it both happy and unhappy about it.

It has been posted about 2 pages back

 

[big ginger 8]

I didn't read it therefor it does not exist. My computers very slow.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Predicatable enough selection really. Once Wallace was flown over it was pretty obvious he'd be heavily involved. He's had a very good season for Ulster, so I don't have any major qualms over his inclusion. O'Mahony to 8 was the obvious mood in the back row. Personally I think he's more effective there than at 6 or 7. After the shift Locky put in last weekend I'm happy that he's retained his place too.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'm not sure how to feel about Wallace. He was the form 12 this year but I still worry he ridiculously small for a 12 and even though he's improved his tackling I'm still going to have nightmares about guys like SBW, Gear and Messam running at him Friday night. However he will add wonderfully to our attackr admittedly not the biggest running threat he's got really subtle hands a great pass and of course has a boot to give us another kicking option and play the corners if needs be.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Why was Wallace not good enough to make the squad but once one player was injured he was good enough to walk straight into the squad without training. Nothing against Wallace just the logic of the Irish coaching staff.