Springboks: post RWC general discussion

[TRF_stormer2010]

So we are out. Discuss;

- SA's campaign at the RWC
- PdV is stepping down; who should take over?
- with both Matfield, Smit and probably Juan Smith out fo the picture who is your SA captain for the future?
- future of the Springboks, player-wise and game plan-wise?
- an opportunity to curse Bryce Lawrence's mother's loins..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well on the bright side at least WP will be much bolstered by returning Springboks for our last match and hopefully the play-offs (thank you, Griquas).

Adding Burger, FLouw, Habana, Fourie, Aplon, De Jongh and JdV can only be good considering our problems with injury. PPPRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVIIINCE!

Also, Bryce Lawrence se mase

 

[TRF_heineken]

The Bok Future looks pretty rosy from where I'm sitting IMO... Coach-wise there's a couple of candidates, but I think Allister Coetzee has the inside lane at the moment...

 

[TNT88]

Who do you think will be applying for the job?

 

[Sam Owen]

PDV should go but his Springboks were very good. Look out Wellington, the Boks are out on the town tonight and they'll be drunk, so no talking about the game Wellingtonians, and if you plan on going out tonight, check the mirror that you dont look like Bryce Lawrence.

 

[nickdnz]

I think the future is looking pretty good for SA rugby. They obviously played their hearts out against a very tough Australian team and they looked the better team for the better part of the match. What is pretty obvious at this point, is that players like Matfield, Botha, Smit, Spies, JdV and to an extent Juan Smith and Jaque Fourie now need to be eased out for the next RWC. There are some players who are young enough that the next RWC has to be their last, but there are also young players like Hougaard, de Jong, Francois Steyn and Labmie who still have a very long test career ahead of them.

 

[Jer1cho]

We need a coach who can help the team cheat. It's the only way we can be competitive in the coming years. Maybe get a government official to coach the team? That way, we can cheat, and pay off the referee in one go! Oh, and maybe get a decent replacement for Victor Matfield too. After that, we are sorted, and might come good!

 

[callsign.springbok]

mallett and mitchell have been mentioned on another site. latter more likely than the former at this point. wales and aus have done well with foreign coaches. not convinced Allister Coetzee is way to go. we would probably continue in the same ilk.

hopefully there'll be a change of culture too. the Bulls 8-9-10 combo was a massive weakness in the end, visibly so in the QF. Spies has gone missing in a crucial dogfight game, not for the first time. knock-ons from FdP, average backline play from Morne.

We've wasted talented backs before, who have gone overseas or become jack-of-all-nonsense utility backs. Let's not risk doing this with Lambie and F Steyn (again). Jacques Fourie at 13, but I think everything else in the backline is up-for-grabs in 2012. With Lambie and Steyn, possible 10-12, we have a real opportunity to progress in our rugby style. FdP was a master of tactical play, boxkicking etc, but he's finished now, with him Morne too I hope, and we can evolve our attacking play with Lambie and F Steyn. This also requires Plumtree to stop ****ing around with the talent at Natal and develop a South African 10 instead of Michalak and shuffling players around until they become utility journeymen.

Develop combinations like the Bulls have done with Heyneke, but combinations to play a different style to Bulls rugby...

Sorry for the rambling post! Rant over! Didn't even mention Br*** L*******e

 

[cardassian]

Firstly I'd like to apologise for Bryce Lawrence, he really is a useless ref.

Secondly I'd like to congratulate South Africa for getting rid of P Divvy and Smit in one foul swoop.

Am sure the future for S.A. is bright, with a decent coach you guys will be back on top in no time.

 

[nickdnz]

Yeah, Bryce Lawrence is a very average referee (it's not bias, he's bad against even New Zealand Super Rugby teams). I think any referee would have been the difference in a match like that, so credit to Australia for winning (and deservedly so), but I can appreciate just how much is sucks when a poor performance by a ref contributes to lsoing a QF.

 

[Seaton]

Whilst no one has quite written him off, I think Juan Smith is a class player in every aspect of play, he is even a decent jumper by lock standards. And as for his leadership abilities, well the difference to the Cheetahs when he plays is plain for all to see.

His combination with Brussouw is also superb, so IMO Smith is one of the leaders in terms of not only who plays, but also who might be Al Capitano.

My question still remains, can Scotland please have one, just one little bitsy player from your pool of talented, uncapped players?

Pretty please?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Who do you think will be applying for the job?

mallett and mitchell have been mentioned on another site. latter more likely than the former at this point. wales and aus have done well with foreign coaches. not convinced Allister Coetzee is way to go. we would probably continue in the same ilk.

hopefully there'll be a change of culture too. the Bulls 8-9-10 combo was a massive weakness in the end, visibly so in the QF. Spies has gone missing in a crucial dogfight game, not for the first time. knock-ons from FdP, average backline play from Morne.

We've wasted talented backs before, who have gone overseas or become jack-of-all-nonsense utility backs. Let's not risk doing this with Lambie and F Steyn (again). Jacques Fourie at 13, but I think everything else in the backline is up-for-grabs in 2012. With Lambie and Steyn, possible 10-12, we have a real opportunity to progress in our rugby style. FdP was a master of tactical play, boxkicking etc, but he's finished now, with him Morne too I hope, and we can evolve our attacking play with Lambie and F Steyn. This also requires Plumtree to stop ****ing around with the talent at Natal and develop a South African 10 instead of Michalak and shuffling players around until they become utility journeymen.

Develop combinations like the Bulls have done with Heyneke, but combinations to play a different style to Bulls rugby...

Sorry for the rambling post! Rant over! Didn't even mention Br*** L*******e

Guys that I see with a chance:

Allister Coetzee - I have massive respect for him but think there is a bit of naiviety to his game and I question whether he has all it takes. Stormers also go missing in big games though whether that is the coach, the players or both I couldn't say.

Heyneck Meyer - Unlucky not to have followed up Jake White and the fact that he has been out of action so long and his brand of game at the Bulls... dated? A great coach and respected but he hasn't had a chance to show he has what it takes in 'modern' rugby. Matbe he has but do we take the risk of ending up playing like the Bulls circa 2007/8/9 but without matfield, FdP? Risky..

Rassie Erasmus - doesn't have the CV IMO. Wouldn't be too unhappy if he gets it but doubts are there.

Brendan Venter - A good head for rugby but his mouth... PdV 2. Would be good to have him around in an advisary sense IMO; technical assistant but not head coach IMO; too emotional.

Jake White again - heaven forbid. He'll probably be sensible enough not to apply and I'd thank him for it.

Nick Mallett - had his chances. Hate his attitude. Please no.

John Mitchell - I like what he has done for the Lions and think he could do well for the Bokke. He struggled in Aus with player relations but I think his style of player management works for the SA mindset. Obviously a gifted coach and gets a lot out of his players and take no **** and has shown he is more than capable of making tough selection choices and backing the youth which we will have to do. Has an eye for talent and how to exploit it. A foreigner but i think we need to embrace that something extra we might get from a foreign coach and hope Mitchell intends to put his name in the bag.

We need a coach who can help the team cheat. It's the only way we can be competitive in the coming years. Maybe get a government official to coach the team? That way, we can cheat, and pay off the referee in one go! Oh, and maybe get a decent replacement for Victor Matfield too. After that, we are sorted, and might come good!

I hate to say it but cheating / playing the ref is the way to go obviously.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Whilst no one has quite written him off, I think Juan Smith is a class player in every aspect of play, he is even a decent jumper by lock standards. And as for his leadership abilities, well the difference to the Cheetahs when he plays is plain for all to see.

His combination with Brussouw is also superb, so IMO Smith is one of the leaders in terms of not only who plays, but also who might be Al Capitano.

My question still remains, can Scotland please have one, just one little bitsy player from your pool of talented, uncapped players?

Pretty please?

No-one is a bigger Smith fan than me but I'd hate to see us commit to an old guy again and have to carry him at the end. Captain for 2 years at lock, yes but then it's time to pass the torch IMO.

I think it's a case of getting the balance right between continuing with experienced guys like Smith and Burger for a year or two to keep experience around but bringing in the younger talent when they are able to take over. Might be now might be in 2 years but I'd hate to be stuck with overaged and underform players 3 years out. It's not as if we don't have the talent in our youth.

As for having someone play for Scotland, sure, why not, if England can then so can you but I'm not in a position to help out sorry

 

[Ostrayian]

Guys that I see with a chance:
John Mitchell - I like what he has done for the Lions and think he could do well for the Bokke. He struggled in Aus with player relations but I think his style of player management works for the SA mindset. Obviously a gifted coach and gets a lot out of his players and take no **** and has shown he is more than capable of making tough selection choices and backing the youth which we will have to do. Has an eye for talent and how to exploit it. A foreigner but i think we need to embrace that something extra we might get from a foreign coach and hope Mitchell intends to put his name in the bag.

I hate to say it but cheating / playing the ref is the way to go obviously.

I was pretty dissapointed to see John Mitchell go and agree with everything you have said. He also made the hard decisions in reshaping the Allblacks and getting rid of the dead wood in the squad.

LoL at needing to cheat. haha

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So freakin overjoyed John Smit etc are out. FFS, now that there is a clean slate I can't belief how overjoyed I am; guess I was consigned to havinghim, Spies, Habana and a few others around and was hoping for the best and was denying the rage I truely felt LOL. These guys have done a LOT for SA rugby but were around 2 years too long.

I wouldn't pick a team now for 2015 but would like us to work with a mindset of winning our games with our best XV and slowly bringing in likely guys looking towards the RWC only later on. With that in mind and with current form in mind, I hope we see something like this 30 man squad for the tour at the end of the year;

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie du Plessis - though we need to find depth (and with some miles yet) at tighthead ASAP!
4 Juan Smith (c)
5 Andries Bekker
6 Heinrich Brussow
7 Schalk Burger - for this year still; has been in good form for the Bokke
8 Willem Alberts

(still a pretty experienced pack actually)

9 Francois Hougaard
10 Johan Goosen - only truely new player I'd like to see. Morne Steyn is actually very young still but I hope he gets dropped; limited and horrific defense; a sure gain in momentum
11 Lionel Mapoe - a solid player and good finisher even though he is playing at center ATM
12 Frans Steyn
13 Juan de Jongh
14 Gio Aplon - for now but would like to see if Pietersen can get back to his best or someone like Sithole, Mvovo, Basson maybe if they can show what they have in S15
15 Patrick Lambie

16 ?
17 Adriaan Strauss
18 Gerhard Mostert
19 Duane Vermeulen
20 Dewald Duvenhage
21 Johan Goosen
22 Jaco Taute

?
Deon Fourie
Rynhardt Elstadt
Jacques Potgieter
Josh Strauss
Ruan Pienaar
Sias Ebersohn
Jaque Fourie

I'm having a hard time picking props.. hopefully the S15 throughs up a few names; Oosthuizen is immense in the loose but gets pinged waayy too much at the scrum. Greyling and Kruger are solid but thats about it and they aren't going to take us far considering their age.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I was pretty dissapointed to see John Mitchell go and agree with everything you have said. He also made the hard decisions in reshaping the Allblacks and getting rid of the dead wood in the squad.

LoL at needing to cheat. haha

Yeah, Mitchell brings EXACTLY what SA needs at this stage; someone capable of dropping Spies, Morne and whoever else is there on reputation ahead of a better player (and won't be retiring/moving on of their own) as well as bringing some added dimension to our play.

Well, in another thread some Kiwi's (particularly NickNZ and Shaggy) just about convinced me of the 'appropriateness' of well.. cheating LOL. I can't get around not calling deliberately trying to get one over on the ref cheating LOL. We need to get with it.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

No-one is a bigger Smith fan than me but I'd hate to see us commit to an old guy again and have to carry him at the end. Captain for 2 years at lock, yes but then it's time to pass the torch IMO.

I think it's a case of getting the balance right between continuing with experienced guys like Smith and Burger for a year or two to keep experience around but bringing in the younger talent when they are able to take over. Might be now might be in 2 years but I'd hate to be stuck with overaged and underform players 3 years out. It's not as if we don't have the talent in our youth.

As for having someone play for Scotland, sure, why not, if England can then so can you but I'm not in a position to help out sorry

juan smith what a player! always a fan

 

[Ostrayian]

hahaha apparantly it isnt cheating but gamesmanship. I think Lawrence felt guilty about his previous persecution of the wallabies and made amends for it at the expense of SA hahaha. Deadset worst ref display ive ever witnessed. makes Stu Dickinson look good.

 

[TNT88]

SA have the best players in the world IMO. They need a tactical genius, or a whole team of them to take over as of next year.

John Mitchell is very smart, but pretty strict and likes to do things his way. However, SA have always been a pretty direct team and he might be what they need.

That is a good list of applicants though. No doubt they'll end up with better coaching staff this time.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

SA have the best players in the world IMO. They need a tactical genius, or a whole team of them to take over as of next year.

John Mitchell is very smart, but pretty strict and likes to do things his way. However, SA have always been a pretty direct team and he might be what they need.

That is a good list of applicants though. No doubt they'll end up with better coaching staff this time.

Yeah, Mitchell can come across as a bit.. obnoxious? and 'hardline' but that just suits the Saffa mindset perfectly LOL. I'm also all for backing the coach's vision and GTFO if you can't get over yourself as an individual when it comes to team sport... not just sport even; I'm a bit of a faschist I have to admit LOL.