Would the Super Rugbys best beat the NH best?

[LouisDavis]

That's not really what you were saying. You're saying that S15 is miles ahead, which it isn't. Sure, maybe the top S15 teams would beat the best European teams more often than not, but they're clearly not that far ahead.

I got so frustrated watching NH rugby, specifically the Aviva prem, I decided to take no notice of it. Perhaps you're right but I still believe NH has a long way to go yet. But that's just my opinion and how I interpret the game.

 

[LouisDavis]

which just ins't true.

Top teams from all the leagues can probably live with each other, Leinster, Clermont, Toloun, Tolouse, Saracens et al would all stand up, club teams in the UK have frequently beaten SH national teams as the SH provinces have beaten the Lions as well.

It's just a really pointless argument, because there are 100 +1 things to factor in.

Just be honest and say you prefer watching Super rugby which is really what the case is, no ones going to take umbradge at that .

Well I'm sure before watching a sporting event you have your favorites to win, in this case, I would put SH teams as favorites to win vs teams of a similar standard to them.
Is this not what the app is for? Expressing your views and hearing the thoughts of others, which is what I've done and received relevant counter arguments which have bettered by understanding and of rugby.

You've got me there..

 

[psychic duck]

which just ins't true.

Top teams from all the leagues can probably live with each other, Leinster, Clermont, Toloun, Tolouse, Saracens et al would all stand up, club teams in the UK have frequently beaten SH national teams as the SH provinces have beaten the Lions as well.

It's just a really pointless argument, because there are 100 +1 things to factor in.

Just be honest and say you prefer watching Super rugby which is really what the case is, no ones going to take umbradge at that .

Back in the Super 12 days when the vast majority of the elite NZ player base was still in NZ and spread over just a few teams meaning the likes of Auckland Blues, Crusaders were full of All Blacks and Brumbies full of Wallabies, and European rugby was French/English rugby had top players spread over a dozen more teams and still just gathering its feet the SH was clearly better. But over last 10 or so years with more and more high class talent from all over the world playing in Europe it's clearly got stronger, whilst SR has lost a lot of talent and spread what it has over more teams so it's diluted and there are far more average players hanging around SR now compared to the initial days and it's a lot more evenly matched between the two.

 

[smartcooky]

Watch a game of Top 14 followed by one of Super Rugby, then try and say to me the standard is a higher in France than the SH.

That will depend on which games you watch. There was some pretty high quality rugby in Top14 this year and there were matches that were utter dross in Super Rugby (Sharks v Force in Durban, Blues v Lions in Auckland are two games that come to mind.

I think Clermont, Toulon, Racing or Stade Francais would p¡ss all over the likes of Rebels, Force, Reds (this years anyway), Cheetahs and Blues.

 

[LouisDavis]

That will depend on which games you watch. There was some pretty high quality rugby in Top14 this year and there were matches that were utter dross in Super Rugby (Sharks v Force in Durban, Blues v Lions in Auckland are two games that come to mind.

I think Clermont, Toulon, Racing or Stade Francais would p¡ss all over the likes of Rebels, Force, Reds (this years anyway), Cheetahs and Blues.

That's irrelevant because that'd be the case with the likes of the Hurricanes etc playing teams such as Lyon...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I don't really see much of a difference anymore. When the weather is good the premiership plays like the super 15, we just don't have the weather usually.

I guess this argument is all about biased. On their day any rugby team can turn over another so it would all be about which team is at form at home

 

[Raggs]

Not sure it should be a surprise that s15 is played at a faster pace than AP/T14 etc, it's effectively the cream of the crop for each country, put into a few teams.

But the NH teams can sustain that pace, since the S15 and top tier Euro rugby cover about the same amount of meters per minute. Which is a fairer comparison anyway in many ways. I'd not be so sure that it would be the whitewash many are suggesting.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I agree with your sentiment, @Raggs but I wouldn't go as far as saying that the cream of the SA crop is actually playing in SA, especially from 2016 onwards- then it'll be about 50/50 if you look at our top ~4 players in each position.

 

[Raggs]

A fair point, but considering the makeup of the super rugby playoffs, semi-finals and finals, I don't think the SA s15 teams are going to be the biggest challengers anyway. Even without the player drain.

 

[FrenchFan]

That will depend on which games you watch. There was some pretty high quality rugby in Top14 this year and there were matches that were utter dross in Super Rugby (Sharks v Force in Durban, Blues v Lions in Auckland are two games that come to mind.

I think Clermont, Toulon, Racing or Stade Francais would p¡ss all over the likes of Rebels, Force, Reds (this years anyway), Cheetahs and Blues.

Had to pinch myself. I'll frame that post

yes there were some real crackers this season. Off top of my head I remember Bordeaux playing great attacking rugby posting back to back wins over Stade Francais and Clermont scoring 11 tries in 2 weekends.

Our first half v Toulon at home when we blitzed them in 30min. Then the return game when beat them again. Our victory over Stade francais away was another classic as well.

We've never lost to either Toulon or Stade Français this season. Exited Europe with a 1 pt loss to Montpellier. Noves lost to FFr pre-retirement home. Funny season.

 

[LouisDavis]

Had to pinch myself. I'll frame that post

yes there were some real crackers this season. Off top of my head I remember Bordeaux playing great attacking rugby posting back to back wins over Stade Francais and Clermont scoring 11 tries in 2 weekends.

Our first half v Toulon at home when we blitzed them in 30min. Then the return game when beat them again. Our victory over Stade francais away was another classic as well.

We've never lost to either Toulon or Stade Français this season. Exited Europe with a 1 pt loss to Montpellier. Noves lost to FFr pre-retirement home. Funny season.

Well that's the difference isn't it mate. NH supporters get so buzzed post season if there have been a handful of good games, unlike SH, where quality attacking rugby is the norm. The impressive wins in NH tend to be a bore to watch as they are normally tactical master classes (while technically this is impressive and should be admired, it hardly gets the blood pumping). In contrast, wins against the odds in SH tend to be due to an excellent display of skill and running rugby, Landers win vs Tahs at the weekend springs to mind. Fact is that NH is stereotypically more forward dominated, although there have been improvements in free running rugby in recent years. Where as SH is a lot more free in the sense that there is far more running rugby, one reason why the ABs are the best in the world is because they're prepared to chance their luck by running from their 22 instead of kicking. NH teams will typically resort to kicking the ball away, placing the importance of territory higher than that of taking a risk and going for the 7 points.

 

[chippieolamus]

Well that's the difference isn't it mate. NH supporters get so buzzed post season if there have been a handful of good games, unlike SH, where quality attacking rugby is the norm. The impressive wins in NH tend to be a bore to watch as they are normally tactical master classes (while technically this is impressive and should be admired, it hardly gets the blood pumping). In contrast, wins against the odds in SH tend to be due to an excellent display of skill and running rugby, Landers win vs Tahs at the weekend springs to mind. Fact is that NH is stereotypically more forward dominated, although there have been improvements in free running rugby in recent years. Where as SH is a lot more free in the sense that there is far more running rugby, one reason why the ABs are the best in the world is because they're prepared to chance their luck by running from their 22 instead of kicking. NH teams will typically resort to kicking the ball away, placing the importance of territory higher than that of taking a risk and going for the 7 points.

I really depends which team you watch really. From the AP Leicester probably fit your description, but if you look at clubs like Wasps and Bath, they play exciting, free running rugby. It really varies on the team who're playing. Perhaps a larger proportion of SH teams play exciting rugby, but there are still teams in the NH which are good to watch.

 

[LouisDavis]

I really depends which team you watch really. From the AP Leicester probably fit your description, but if you look at clubs like Wasps and Bath, they play exciting, free running rugby. It really varies on the team who're playing. Perhaps a larger proportion of SH teams play exciting rugby, but there are still teams in the NH which are good to watch.

I'd say Gloucester are a better example, they play a style of rugby called yawnion. I agree Bath do play an attacking style of rugby but not quite on the same level as the best in SH, although they're getting better.

 

[chippieolamus]

Really? Gloucester are decent to watch, I think... Anyway, you're sort of reinforcing my point, there's variety in the NH: some play free flowing, attacking rugby, some play boring, forward based gameplans. I don't think its fair to say the 'NH is boring, SH is exciting' - if a person only watched Leicester they might be inclined to agree with that, but if you only watched Bath you'd say that's way off the mark.

 

[FrenchFan]

Well that's the difference isn't it mate. NH supporters get so buzzed post season if there have been a handful of good games, unlike SH, where quality attacking rugby is the norm. The impressive wins in NH tend to be a bore to watch as they are normally tactical master classes (while technically this is impressive and should be admired, it hardly gets the blood pumping). In contrast, wins against the odds in SH tend to be due to an excellent display of skill and running rugby, Landers win vs Tahs at the weekend springs to mind. Fact is that NH is stereotypically more forward dominated, although there have been improvements in free running rugby in recent years. Where as SH is a lot more free in the sense that there is far more running rugby, one reason why the ABs are the best in the world is because they're prepared to chance their luck by running from their 22 instead of kicking. NH teams will typically resort to kicking the ball away, placing the importance of territory higher than that of taking a risk and going for the 7 points.

This is all down to personal taste. I like big forward tussles as well. And it's more than a 'handful' of games.
Our leagues (T14 & ProD2) have always been forwards dominated rugby. I don't remember being different. Look at the importance of scrums in French rugby. And I like watching an effective mauls, scoring a try off a maul from a lineout. I don't find that boring at all. It's as much a skill as anything else.
I like a mix of kicking and running rugby and we get that all season here. Bordeaux tend to attack more because their pack will not dominate the big packs here. But it's high risk rugby as well and it doesn't always pay off esp. in the winter on a muddy pitch. In the winter here the games slow down and given the weather conditions it only makes sense to hold on to the ball in the forwards and kick it because passing a bar soap around doesn't produce great rugby. I agree there's more running rugby in SH because the refs also favour the attacking side more than we do here. There's also too many forward passes in S15 which wouldn't be allowed here.

 

[Kiwi_]

What about a dream team SR IX vs Best NH IX?

 

[gaston le gaff]

This is all down to personal taste. I like big forward tussles as well. And it's more than a 'handful' of games.
Our leagues (T14 & ProD2) have always been forwards dominated rugby. I don't remember being different. Look at the importance of scrums in French rugby. And I like watching an effective mauls, scoring a try off a maul from a lineout. I don't find that boring at all. It's as much a skill as anything else.
I like a mix of kicking and running rugby and we get that all season here. Bordeaux tend to attack more because their pack will not dominate the big packs here. But it's high risk rugby as well and it doesn't always pay off esp. in the winter on a muddy pitch. In the winter here the games slow down and given the weather conditions it only makes sense to hold on to the ball in the forwards and kick it because passing a bar soap around doesn't produce great rugby. I agree there's more running rugby in SH because the refs also favour the attacking side more than we do here. There's also too many forward passes in S15 which wouldn't be allowed here.

i have to agree if you take the combat out of rugby you are not talking about the same game, the rolling mauls that you see in France are superb and very difficult to perform, the scrum is a platform for the backs but a battle for the forwards, this is not about how fast you run around the the park or how slick the passing is, its is about getting 15 players who are of all different weights and sizes to come together and bond into something we call rugby and perform all the diffferents strenghs and possibilities that are possible in todays modern rugby, i watch SR and it is entertaining thats for sure but to me its not my rugby but i would not critise it as some do about the NH rugby that would be stupid and plain childish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! each to their own but voicing negative opinions about a particulatr way the same sport is played elsewhere is well, i 'll leave that up to the rest of you.!!!!!

 

[goodNumber10]

Well that's the difference isn't it mate. NH supporters get so buzzed post season if there have been a handful of good games, unlike SH, where quality attacking rugby is the norm. The impressive wins in NH tend to be a bore to watch as they are normally tactical master classes (while technically this is impressive and should be admired, it hardly gets the blood pumping). In contrast, wins against the odds in SH tend to be due to an excellent display of skill and running rugby, Landers win vs Tahs at the weekend springs to mind. Fact is that NH is stereotypically more forward dominated, although there have been improvements in free running rugby in recent years. Where as SH is a lot more free in the sense that there is far more running rugby, one reason why the ABs are the best in the world is because they're prepared to chance their luck by running from their 22 instead of kicking. NH teams will typically resort to kicking the ball away, placing the importance of territory higher than that of taking a risk and going for the 7 points.

No offence but you have no clue what you're talking about.

AB's kick more than any other team in international rugby, the entire ab game plan is about pressure in oppo half and counter attack.

The Tahs loss was down to the landers superior kicking game, they pinned that big Tahs pack back and made them play from deep - complete opposite to your description of the game.


That guff about NH fans being chuffed with a handful of great games is also tired old garbage.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That guff about NH fans being chuffed with a handful of great games is also tired old garbage.

Do they even broadcast the games there?

How many games can your average Aus/Enzed fan watch live if he was so inclined?

 

[gaston le gaff]

here we get loads SH as there is little rugby in the summer so a very good coverage and if i'm honest i watched the 1/4's, semis, and probably the final tomorrow but the week in week out stuff never there is just not enough forward pay to wet my appetite, if i'm entirely honest i watched the playoffs to see what Mogg White and Catrakilis were about as we have them alll in Montpellier this coming season.