[2018 November Tests] Ireland vs New Zealand (17/11/18)

[westernforce]

The Irish have the unfortunate task of taking the perfect game they played yesterday, and reproducing it consistently,in other matches. Question is, can they? I doubt many teams can.

We all know, from history, that the ABs will consistently perform at a high enough level to make results, like yesterday's, still rather an upset, than the norm. To refute this, is to refute history itself, even if a corner in rugby history may well have been turned.

New Zealand rugby is a machine with very few peers.

Ireland have been consistent with it all season, winning the grand slam while also winning a test series in Australia for the first time in their history. Ireland don't need to play the perfect game to beat the All Blacks or indeed any team, they just need to stick to the game plan that Joe and the other coaches put forward!

Would I be right in saying Ireland have only lost 1 game all year?
While NZ have lost 2?

If that's not consistency I don't know what is.

 

[Five Meters Out]

Late to the party here, but Jesus, what a game! Well done Ireland, I was a bit nervous for you in the last 10 mins. Felt like the ABs had started to find a bit of space at the end, but you hung on.

This year we've seen a clear game plan to tackle this ABs side. Pressure rugby. South Africa and Ireland have pulled it off, England nearly so. Even France managed to put together a few good halfs against them over the summer with pressure defence, tactical kicking and trying to be more physical than them. Still, I reckon if Ireland played them 10 times, the ABs would win more than half. Still the best side, just not by the clear margin we have gotten used to in the last 10 years.

A fine game by Ireland who fully deserved their victory.
I think NDC89 is correct in the "game plan to tackle the ABs". You could add the 2017 British Lions to that list.
It would be fair to say the AB's are the fittest and best attacking team in the world. However, when they have two big Tests in a row, against teams who are fully committed on defence, they appear to lose their sharp attacking edge in the 2nd game.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Whitelock looked old and slow and world best player Brodie Retallick poor by his lofty standards. Reed was not as dominant and Ardie was the lone soldier who lacked support. Our big bodies failed to get over the advantage line. Would have been good to see the frame of P Tuipulotu when the going got tough.

This i'm surprised hasn't been mentioned more, i thought Whitelock looked shattered, for a fair chunk of the game i was watching him and he was just flopping onto rucks or just dragging people to the ground in tackles rather than a hit and drive. i'm a believer that a game can be won and lost in the tight and not having that pressure was a big loss

 

[Leinster Fan]

Just watching a replay back. The lineout problems weren't down to Toner and POM going off. It was only when Best went off and Cronin came on that it went it to ****. Actually on Cronins first throw (69 minutes) RTE put up the lineout stats..... Ireland 10/0, NZ 6/1 W/L. We'd pinched the one off them and secured one on our own ball (Murphy) while Toner was on the bench and Best was still throwing.

Cronin performs brilliantly at Leinster but he might come under pressure from Scannell for his place on the bench soon.

The stat was wrong though. We messed up the lineout when Kearney tackled one of them into touch in the 22 and we gave it away. Best was still on the pitch then. Overall we lost three lineouts and only one I think was Cronin's fault. He was given a way harder job without Toner and O'Mahony to throw to.

Cronin isn't necessarily a better player than Scannell or a better player to have as a starter but he's a far better player to bring off the bench with 20 minutes to go.

 

[FrenchFan]

But its not just one game is it? There are a number of games that are a lot closer than the doom sayers expected.

England 35-15 Japan, (this is a team that NZ stuck 70 points on a couple of weeks)
Scotland 20-26 South Africa
France 26-29 South Africa
England 15-16 New Zealand
Wales 9-6 Australia

But there's been similar scorelines between same nations in past. NH nations running close or beating SH ones and vice versa. Oh wow. And how has that stopped the decline we're talking about? And we're still talking about the same nations. Three of them have declined. Aus and Fra are at an historical low in the rankings. There's no new nations coming thru into the Top 10 save for Argentina. But hey it's all good.

Maybe your pessimism just might be based on the structural problems you have in your game, inyou country, where rich, arrogant sugar daddies use rugby clubs as toys, and the competitions as a dick-swinging contest.

Amusing caricature. Shows how little you know about the game here. There's 3 sugar daddies in Top 14. None in ProD2. 3 out of 30 pro clubs. 10% oh my oh my. Think that's called a minority. I don't know how we're going to survive that...

Why has this anything to do with WR?

so the near-bankruptcy of 3 nations that produce great rugby players does not affect their development as rugby nations and is of no concern to WR?! unbelievable.

 

[munstermuffin]

To be fair to the Irish bench NZ have an uncanny nack of finishing very strong often running away with games in the final quarter that have been tight throughout, with that in mind it might be worth cutting the bench a little slack.

Just my thoughts.

As I said I didn't mention any individually but as a while NZ can't be blamed for slip in standards of a set piece. It was self inflicted errors

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ireland didn't look particularly creative in the AB game. What they do is keep the error count very low and they have a bunch of forwards with so much grit they could lay a road. They are playing a similar style to England around the time we won the world cup, using the forwards to just control the game and essentially bulldozing forwards relentlessly. The Irish game is built around consistency and doing the basic stuff to a very high standard. This is a pretty good foundation because it means you are unlikely to have absolute howlers in a way the Scotland for example will not be able to prevent.

The thing is Ireland haven't yet met a side their forwards couldn't bully but I think if they do then they will seriously struggle. Sexton and Murray are probably the world leading halfback pairing but a large chunk of that comes from being behind the most abrasive set of forwards in the world.

 

[User1245]

Ireland didn't look particularly creative in the AB game. What they do is keep the error count very low and they have a bunch of forwards with so much grit they could lay a road. They are playing a similar style to England around the time we won the world cup, using the forwards to just control the game and essentially bulldozing forwards relentlessly. The Irish game is built around consistency and doing the basic stuff to a very high standard. This is a pretty good foundation because it means you are unlikely to have absolute howlers in a way the Scotland for example will not be able to prevent.

The thing is Ireland haven't yet met a side their forwards couldn't bully but I think if they do then they will seriously struggle. Sexton and Murray are probably the world leading halfback pairing but a large chunk of that comes from being behind the most abrasive set of forwards in the world.

I'm seriously disappointed that the Boks aren't getting a crack at Ireland because of this. I do think Ireland is better than the Boks at the moment however we've got a physically dominate forward pack at the moment who carries our backline. It would be a great gauge for both teams, especially the Boks.

Who in Europe has the second best pack of forwards?

 

[Nubiwan]

Perspective here:

Ireland just battered the ABs for all intents and purposes, and came off the field with a win by a try. A game that the ABs might still have easily secured a late draw from. After being battered. I certainly would not have been surprised had Barrett, or Smith, or Retallick had gone in for a let try under the posts. It would have been typical, if perhaps undeserved. Yet, we are talking a side that was supposed to have been battered.

When New Zealand batter European 15s, the score lines are usually of the 60-0 variety. They have done this to the Irish within the last 6 years.

Is anyone really writing them off? I sure hope there is more sense on here. Looking forward to a tighter World Cup than I originally might have expected it to be. Some great results for international rugby in the past 2 months.

 

[Bean]

Perspective here:

Ireland just battered the ABs for all intents and purposes, and came off the field with a win by a try. A game that the ABs might still have easily secured a late draw from. After being battered. I certainly would not have been surprised had Barrett, or Smith, or Retallick had gone in for a let try under the posts. It would have been typical, if perhaps undeserved. Yet, we are talking a side that was supposed to have been battered.

When New Zealand batter European 15s, the score lines are usually of the 60-0 variety. They have done this to the Irish within the last 6 years.

Is anyone really writing them off? I sure hope there is more sense on here. Looking forward to a tighter World Cup than I originally might have expected it to be. Some great results for international rugby in the past 2 months.

You've got to remember, Brody knocked that ball on after the charge down. 9/10 that's a try. Ireland very lucky NZ were unable to put it together.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Perspective here:

Ireland just battered the ABs for all intents and purposes, and came off the field with a win by a try. A game that the ABs might still have easily secured a late draw from. After being battered. I certainly would not have been surprised had Barrett, or Smith, or Retallick had gone in for a let try under the posts. It would have been typical, if perhaps undeserved. Yet, we are talking a side that was supposed to have been battered.

When New Zealand batter European 15s, the score lines are usually of the 60-0 variety. They have done this to the Irish within the last 6 years.

Is anyone really writing them off? I sure hope there is more sense on here. Looking forward to a tighter World Cup than I originally might have expected it to be. Some great results for international rugby in the past 2 months.

i think you're the only one calling it a battering, Ireland matched and exceeded the all blacks in almost every aspect, but i felt it was more a case of they got 90% and we got 80% and the seven point score line reflects that.

With their missing first choice players it might have been a different story but if we're talking "what if's" then we go down a rabbit hole

You've got to remember, Brody knocked that ball on after the charge down. 9/10 that's a try. Ireland very lucky NZ were unable to put it together.

wasn't it Read?

 

[Nubiwan]

i think you're the only one calling it a battering, Ireland matched and exceeded the all blacks in almost every aspect, but i felt it was more a case of they got 90% and we got 80% and the seven point score line reflects that.

With their missing first choice players it might have been a different story but if we're talking "what if's" then we go down a rabbit hole



wasn't it Read?

Well fair enough, but everyone thought the Irish dominated. My point was when the ABs dominate, they are typically on another planet.

And yes, it was Read who knocked on

O'Mahoney's interception inside the 22 was a certain looking try

A wayward pass inside the Irish 22 went to Irish hands

The ABs were always in it......

 

[Leinster Fan]

I'm seriously disappointed that the Boks aren't getting a crack at Ireland because of this. I do think Ireland is better than the Boks at the moment however we've got a physically dominate forward pack at the moment who carries our backline. It would be a great gauge for both teams, especially the Boks.

Who in Europe has the second best pack of forwards?

England or Wales, I think I'd take England given that they've finally started to find some answers in the backrow. Wales need to find a partner for Alun Wyn Jones and maybe another 10% from the front row I think. Awesome depth in the back row though.

 

[Paulo]

Well fair enough, but everyone thought the Irish dominated. My point was when the ABs dominate, they are typically on another planet.

And yes, it was Read who knocked on

O'Mahoney's interception inside the 22 was a certain looking try

A wayward pass inside the Irish 22 went to Irish hands

The ABs were always in it......

Ye, I have tried to point this out diplomatically as I don't want to take away from the Irish achievement. But for a dropped ball by Read the game might have been tied. Those passes normally stick and those half chances are normally converted into points. It was good defence that helped put a stop to it, getting in the way of chasers and being in the right spot to steal/get the offload. Nothing nefarious, but just good scramble defence. The boys will learn and improve decision making. Still not sure why Read went for the 3 points when 10down. Anyways, time to take out frustration on Italy. I wonder how they feel about the Irish win now that they will cop the backlash.

 

[smartcooky]

im samoan cooky and im offended youre telling everyone the truth.

I knew you were Samoan mania, and I knew you wouldn't be offended... because you're a bloody realist mate.

RANT WARNING
Most of the NH types on this forum who pontificate upon how the Pacific Islands are so down trodden and taken advantage of, have probably never set foot outside their own country and certainly will have never been to Samoa or Tonga or any of the Pacific Islands themselves. I have, numerous times, sometimes just for holidays, but enough times for the rather unpleasant business of disaster relief when I was in the military. I saw enough corruption to shock even Trump!

 

[User1245]

I knew you were Samoan mania, and I knew you wouldn't be offended... because you're a bloody realist mate.

RANT WARNING
Most of the NH types on this forum who pontificate upon how the Pacific Islands are so down trodden and taken advantage of, have probably never set foot outside their own country and certainly will have never been to Samoa or Tonga or any of the Pacific Islands themselves. I have, numerous times, sometimes just for holidays, but enough times for the rather unpleasant business of disaster relief when I was in the military. I saw enough corruption to shock even Trump!

Europe has a tendency to back the wrong horse and in the worst possible way.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ire deserved their win, but NZ could have won it, just as they could have lost to Eng, just as either of their games against the Boks could have gone either way.

The ABs have come back to the pack a little bit and the international game's all the better for it. Now if only the French could remember how to play....

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Looking like NZ v SA in Pool B next year will go a long way to decide who will get to the final out of NZ, SA and Ireland. Whoever of the two Ireland play in the quarters, it'll be a brutal game.

 

[Bean]

Looking like NZ v SA in Pool B next year will go a long way to decide who will get to the final out of NZ, SA and Ireland. Whoever of the two Ireland play in the quarters, it'll be a brutal game.

Just did up my predictions based off the fixtures and pools for the RWC. South Africa, if they are runner up to NZ, will face Ireland in the Semi finals.

England will knock out Australia.
New Zealand will knock out the home side.

It's all set for an Ireland v NZ final.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Yeah of course, the nerves going into the QF will be horrible next year but this does seem to me like we're building rather than going with the flow in the hope the puzzle pieces itself together. In 2016 we realised our potential over 80mins, in 2017 we found a bit of consistency after a slow start, it's all fallen nicely into place this year and there's still room for improvement and selection dilemmas.

I think if we're going to fall short of a semi next year NZ or SA are going to have to come out and beat us, it won't be lack of depth or choke jobs like the last three, I'm ok with that.

I think you are being a bit too optimistic, and to be completely honest, it's kind of a "thing" with the irish. Phrases like "the best generation" (2007) and "back to back champions" (2015) come to mind. Every year before a world cup (or thereabouts) your team does well and your countrymen's expectations explode.
It's quite amazing because in my experience the irish tend to be incredibly self-critical with anything and everything, except when it comes to rugby and world cups.

If you have a tiny bit below average day and England/France/Scotland/Wales has an above average game, they can beat you. It's not a stretch.