All Blacks vs Springboks, July 17th 2010, Second Tri Nations Test

[Prestwick]

Do you think then that maybe moving away from Morne Steyn and towards someone else combined with a collective rocket up the rear to get them chasing those kicks better would work?

I'd have to say that maybe a nice weekend for the team would help clear the air and focus minds. Brighton did wonders for Saracens and I'm sure a nice night out in Brisbane would do the same for the Boks.

 

[rusty_lock]

I have never understood PDV's constant preference for Januarie. He couldn't get a start over Duvenage in super 14 and except for one great try he scored last year has never impressed me. I would rate him 5th in SA scrum halfs. SA whinging about the reffing is pretty funny to say the least. The fact of the matter is that SA has such a long history violent, dangerous players that refs now are looking for this kind of thing from them and a referee is going to find what he is looking for. Their only hope of changing that is to start to play the game within the laws for a while and maybe their reputation will change.

 

[SelimNiai]

Dear SA and NZ

I would be very pleased if you two could actually play rugby without hitting, kicking, gouging etc.

Thanks

Actually I only semi-jest. I didn't watch either of the games and have woken to the fact that either/both sides have commited foul play of some sort and that is argued about for a long while. Is it too much to ask for these two great sides to play a game that will be talked about in terms of quality of play instead of acts of thuggery.

I suppose that goes out to all International Rugby. I get a bit hacked off when certain players, I'm not going to name names, resort to gain an edge by gouging, kicking, butting or generally cheating. These guys have the skillset to win games without having to cheat or commit foul play.

Then there is the default excuse is that it was the referee's fault. Now, I have criticised referees but I try to not lay blame at their door, when Wales/Bristol or whoever have been beaten by a better side I will say it. I wish some others do so too.

Rant over.

 

[lucky number 7]

JDV has already been cited for a dangerous tackle on JDV.

how did that one work out??

Sounds pretty kick ass to me

 

[Conal]

how did that one work out??

Sounds pretty kick ass to me

he picked up his ownlegs put themabove his head and then speared himself head first on the ground

 

[smartcooky]

The sad thing for the Springboks about this is that PDV will focus on the perceived unjustness of Rossouw's yellow card and the non-yellow carding of Ranger (not justified anyway) and McCaw, and blame those as the reasons why his team lost, instead of understanding the real reasons for their defeat;

1. Their forward pack is too slow and lacks mobility around the field. They were beaten to the breakdown just about every time. They need to sacrifice some size (and fat Mr Smit and Mr Januarie) for some athleticism. This was particularly evident in the last 15 minutes of the match where they gave up 10 of their 17 breakdown turnovers.

2. Their backs are utterly clueless with the ball in hand. Morne Steyn is good at kicking three points, but at this level, has absolutely no idea how to set a backline alight. What a huge difference Ruan Pienaar made when he came on. He doesn't play 10 by any chance does he?

3. They have built themselves a reputation as a dirty team. The upshot is that they are going to be watched closely, and its a problem of their own making. Bakkies is a liability and should have been given the boot years ago. They need to ensure they remain clean for 12 months to get back their credibility in the discipline department.

4. They haven't realised that kick-chase-pressure-turnover doesn't work any more. The return to the correct interpretations at the breakdown means teams who execute correctly can maintain continuity of possession. Some say that this has taken away the contest for possession. Thirty breakdown turnovers in this match (one every 2½ minutes, or every 8 tackles) says otherwise.

PDV maintains that his team has faced "six different interpretations" at the breakdown in Six tests this year. I have to say that I saw little if any difference between the way Alan Lewis (v Wales and v NZ), Bryce Lawrence (v France) and now Alain Rolland run the breakdown (didn't see the Italy tests so I can't comment). PDV is the only international coach kicking up such a fuss about it, and it not hard to understand why, because the game has changed (for the better IMO) since last season, and he and his team have failed to change with it. He doesn't like the way the breakdown is being interpreted because it doesn't suit his outdated game plan.

 

[Hurricane Nate]

Drop Ranger! scored a good try but other than that I can see his multiple mistakes costing us games. Israel Dagg should of had his spot. In fact Hosea Gear should of had Rangers spot in the dam squad. Good to see normality resume for the AB's, can definitely see the Bok's finishing last this year with the way these new rules are panning out. Good riddance too. NZ v.s Aus should be a good watch... atleast they'll both want to play rugby.

 

[Darwin]

Another enjoyable game, despite the poor conditions. I thought South Africa played a lot better this week - It will be interesting to see how the AB's go over in South Africa. Rossouw seemed to be very unlucky to be sent off early in the game, but if you do something like that straight in front of the ref you are really just asking for trouble. Kirchner and de Villers were probably lucky to stay on the field for their dangerous tackles, while McCaw was very lucky to still be on the field as he was repeatedly penalized.

I thought Read had another outstanding game - he is developing into a world class number 8. Similarly Weepu was outstanding for a second week in a row - the AB coaching panel seem to be able to get the best out of him, and he certainly appears to be the first choice halfback at he moment. Cowan did not play well off the bench - not sure what has happened to him over the last couple of weeks, as he did play well in the early tests. If Weepu is the first choice halfback, Cowan will be under pressure to keep his spot on the bench as he really doesn't add the sort of impact from the bench that someone like Mathewson could provide.

Ranger had an ok debut. He dropped the ball a few times (though he was being dumped on his head on one of these occasions, so I will forgive him for that), but did take the try scoring opportunity well. Mils was again good at fullback, while Dagg was exceptional from the bench.

Burger again impressed me for the Boks - I really like the way he is running at gaps and then offloading, rather than running straight at guys as he does sometimes. Kirchner was again impressive at fullback, while I thought Aplon was exceptional when he came on - you'd think he'd have to start against the Aussies next week (especially with de Villers facing a possible suspension).

 

[admartian]

How Danie Rossouw got a yellow card in the first 5 minutes, only the ref will know. Whats worse he's kept off for 12 minutes.

As a Springbok supporter I would also love refs start penalizing McCaw for his ongoing off-the-ball activities, diving over the ball in the ruck and continual off side plays which has been a "feature' of his play for years. I will keep on hoping........

A South African can troll like that with ease, but when a Kiwi does it, it's punishable?

Looks like cheating is not limited on the rugby field for these Boks...

Dannie Rossouw sin binned after only 3mins, for what? Your guess is as good as mine. Two tries were scored by the sixteen all blacks on the field at the time. Funnily enough one all black was not wearing all black, he was wearing yellow and blue and went by the name Alain Rolland.

The entire game was a farce. The sin binning of Rossouw denied any chance of a springbok win. John Smit after the game commented; "We are looking forward to seeing what we can do with 15 men on the field... Two tries were conceded in the time Danie was sent off"

"Obvious Troll is obvious."

Why was Danie rossouw instantly sent off, for nothing more than what should have been a 'calm down' talk? Also, why was ranger not sent off? and why was MaCaw given 70 warnings but was never sent off? NZ were also VERY guilty of falling over the ball numerous times. It was an abysmal display by him. I also found nonu's try very suspect. Nice of the NZ TV crew to not show a proper replay.

We wouldn't have won anyway, as NZ were better than us both in attack, and defense, but Rolland certainly made a nice dent to the scoreboard.

Kirchner had the best game i have seen him play. Aplon needs to start at wing, like we have been f*cking saying all season.

I thought Kirchner was one of the Bok's best. In my opinion, I think Bok fans are in love with Frans simply because you guys can afford not to have to attack and simply sit back and drop goal/penalty kick form 60m away.

Kirchner is much more complete, and much better imo.

Aplon played well, if he hadn't dropped the ball and ruining SA's momentum - it would've been a much better performance.

I feel like we deserved a chance to win the game. It was over after three mins... Is a chance too much to ask for?

"Obvious Troll is obvious."

Ok lets entertain the idea that Ranger was illegaly tackeled... What impact did that have on the game, and how did it compare to the sending off of roussow?

and to the guy that asked the question about the momentum and why they didnt build it in the remaining 66mins... They were forced to play catch up rugby...

"Obvious Troll is obvious."

It had an impact on the game because JDV should've got a yellow card and South Africa would've performed better

No he wasn't biased, he missed calls on both sides, but I thought at the rucks and scrums he was pretty spot on.

Yes, that's simply it - HE MISSED CALLS ON BOTH SIDES!

Are you an idiot? I said for a start, there was a point in the second half, when there was a gap of 3 points. It was befiore Rene Ranger scored in the 47th minute. My point being, during the second half, the momentum was swinging South Africa's way, and it was almost even on 3 points, yet the Springboks still lost by 14 points.

JDV has already been cited for a dangerous tackle on JDV.

The NZ commentators got it wrong. They're not gods, and when the match is recapped they may have had a closer look to change their minds.

I suspect you are Peter de Villiers.

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/ne...gbyu-defeated-springbok-coach-lashes-referees

You know what? I think he is, too.

The same nonsensical, bullshit arguments.

PDV, you sir, are a ******* moron!

This, my friends, is the AB peaking to early. Again.





Excellent

:lol:

We shall see. Though, we usually peak 2 seasons before (i.e. 2005 Lions tour/Tri Nations) and are average after that (2006).

Who knows. I doubt we can read too much into that. As our WC failings aren't much to do with "peaking too soon" as opposed to things such as polaying players out of position (Cullen, Mils, Tana, etc), not playing form players, and the rotation policy (which is thankfully dead and buried).

What a disappointing match again from the Springboks. Rossouw gets a harsh but justifiable yellow card. So stupid! Jaque Fourie was definitely the worst. What a complete moron that guy. Running into the centre of the field when you are a man down (which lead to the second try) was the most stupid decision made this year by a Springbok. Does that girl ever think before he starts running? Forward passing, letting the ball slip from his hands... Can anyone tell me why this Barbie Girl is still in the Springbok squad?

I am happy Rossouw scored the try just before half-time because it gave me a better feeling during half-time and gave me hope for a good second half.

Bringing on Gio Aplon was amazing. Aplon should have been in the starting line-up though.

What really surprised me is the number of warnings McCaw got without even getting a yellow card when the card for Rossouw was given so easily. I'm not saying Rossouw shouldn't have gotten the card but if you give one player a yellow card so easily, you have to do it on both ends.

All in all a deserved win once again for the All Blacks and a very very very disappointing performance from the Springboks. I really hope PdV wakes up before the World Cup otherwise it will be a very nasty tournament for the Springboks. What a complete lack of communication in the team. It's unbelievable. Januarie is over the hill and I hope a better backup for du Preez will present itself very soon. With this squad, we won't have a chance next year.

Kiwi's, congratulations on this amazing victory once again.

Good post. Too bad some Troll is giving Bok fans a bad name.

To be fair on Fourie, he is a very good defender. Very good when paired with JDV (Thunder & Lightning). However, that's PDV's fault.

Roussouw is very good, despite indiscretions, should definitely start over Botha - 9 week ban or otherwise.

Aplon was good, but I think he's better in the midfield. I thought his runs from the outside weren't that convincing, plus he knocked on a lot from the wing. However when he was on the inside, or running an inside channel, he was much more threatening.

The sad thing for the Springboks about this is that PDV will focus on the perceived unjustness of Rossouw's yellow card and the non-yellow carding of Ranger (not justified anyway) and McCaw, and blame those as the reasons why his team lost, instead of understanding the real reasons for their defeat;

1. Their forward pack is too slow and lacks mobility around the field. They were beaten to the breakdown just about every time. They need to sacrifice some size (and fat Mr Smit and Mr Januarie) for some athleticism. This was particularly evident in the last 15 minutes of the match where they gave up 10 of their 17 breakdown turnovers.

2. Their backs are utterly clueless with the ball in hand. Morne Steyn is good at kicking three points, but at this level, has absolutely no idea how to set a backline alight. What a huge difference Ruan Pienaar made when he came on. He doesn't play 10 by any chance does he?

3. They have built themselves a reputation as a dirty team. The upshot is that they are going to be watched closely, and its a problem of their own making. Bakkies is a liability and should have been given the boot years ago. They need to ensure they remain clean for 12 months to get back their credibility in the discipline department.

4. They haven't realised that kick-chase-pressure-turnover doesn't work any more. The return to the correct interpretations at the breakdown means teams who execute correctly can maintain continuity of possession. Some say that this has taken away the contest for possession. Thirty breakdown turnovers in this match (one every 2½ minutes, or every 8 tackles) says otherwise.

PDV maintains that his team has faced "six different interpretations" at the breakdown in Six tests this year. I have to say that I saw little if any difference between the way Alan Lewis (v Wales and v NZ), Bryce Lawrence (v France) and now Alain Rolland run the breakdown (didn't see the Italy tests so I can't comment). PDV is the only international coach kicking up such a fuss about it, and it not hard to understand why, because the game has changed (for the better IMO) since last season, and he and his team have failed to change with it. He doesn't like the way the breakdown is being interpreted because it doesn't suit his outdated game plan.

Too true mate.

 

[ozmanoshe]

Has anyone seen the ridiculous writeup from Planet Rugby:

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6267124,00.html

it's a total joke and seems to lack any objectivity. It was quite obvious that several dangerous tackles were missed by the referee, but to single out the (in my opinion) marginal one by ranger, where he may or may not have used arms as against the far more obvious spear tackle on ranger and the stiff arm from Kirchner on Jane left me incredulous.

I totally agree that Roussow didn't deserver the yellow, but it's almost as if PDV wrote this article.

Unsurprising de villiers has been cited, no word on ranger as yet, but I'd be very surprised if he got cited. Is planetrugby a SAF or a Pom site? It's always my choice of read when I want to be irritated by bias rubbish writing

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think the Ranger 'dangerous' tackle is suspect anyway, as if you watch the highlights you can see that Kirchner is being tackle before Ranger goes to make his tackle, and is dragged into Ranger as he attempts to make the tackle. You can see his intent to grasp the Kirchner, it's just that Kirchner hit him sooner than he was expecting, meaning he bounced off of his shoulder before he could wrap him up

 

[smartcooky]

Drop Ranger! scored a good try but other than that I can see his multiple mistakes costing us games. Israel Dagg should of had his spot. In fact Hosea Gear should of had Rangers spot in the dam squad.

I disagree completely with dropping Ranger. If making mistakes early in a career was the criteria, you would have been calling for Tana Umaga to be dropped in 1997 and 1998. Look how big a mistake that would have been.

You can coach players to not make mistakes through skill drills, but you cannot coach raw natural talent, which is what Ranger has in bucket-loads.

 

[wjd23104]

I disagree completely with dropping Ranger. If making mistakes early in a career was the criteria, you would have been calling for Tana Umaga to be dropped in 1997 and 1998. Look how big a mistake that would have been.

You can coach players to not make mistakes through skill drills, but you cannot coach raw natural talent, which is what Ranger has in bucket-loads.

You can drop a guy and recall them, just look at some of Australia's best current cricketers Katich, Ponting and Clarke. All are great players and all came back stronger after being dropped. More to the point, Dagg is the better player right now and should start ahead of Ranger.

 

[ranger]

Drop Ranger! scored a good try but other than that I can see his multiple mistakes costing us games. Israel Dagg should of had his spot. In fact Hosea Gear should of had Rangers spot in the dam squad. Good to see normality resume for the AB's, can definitely see the Bok's finishing last this year with the way these new rules are panning out. Good riddance too. NZ v.s Aus should be a good watch... atleast they'll both want to play rugby.

Nah. Ranger had a good outing. He dropped the ball a couple of times but if you look at those incidents they were pretty hard balls to catch anyway, he did a better job in the handling stakes than Habana did.. Hes got alot of natural talent and should be given some more time. Dagg will take over from Mills in two years so its best that his starts come at fullback so he can get experience back there.

You can drop a guy and recall them, just look at some of Australia's best current cricketers Katich, Ponting and Clarke. All are great players and all came back stronger after being dropped. More to the point, Dagg is the better player right now and should start ahead of Ranger.

You could also look at Messam, Braid, Lauaki, Atiga etc and see the effect that getting dropped and recalled and dropped again had on them and their careers. You would have to have a screw loose to think that dropping young kids after a single game will help them. Even if we are talking cricket look at Lou Vincent and Matthew Sinclair. It doesn't make them stronger it crushes them.
Ranger is very talented and needs to be nurtured and polished, just think of him as a second Nonu they are very similar players. Ease him into test rugby on the wing, smooth out the rough edges in his game, before you know it we have a ready made Nonu replacement for the 2015 WC.

 

[William18]

Nah. Ranger had a good outing. He dropped the ball a couple of times but if you look at those incidents they were pretty hard balls to catch anyway, he did a better job in the handling stakes than Habana did.. Hes got alot of natural talent and should be given some more time. Dagg will take over from Mills in two years so its best that his starts come at fullback so he can get experience back there.



You could also look at Messam, Braid, Lauaki, Atiga etc and see the effect that getting dropped and recalled and dropped again had on them and their careers. You would have to have a screw loose to think that dropping young kids after a single game will help them. Even if we are talking cricket look at Lou Vincent and Matthew Sinclair. It doesn't make them stronger it crushes them.
Ranger is very talented and needs to be nurtured and polished, just think of him as a second Nonu they are very similar players. Ease him into test rugby on the wing, smooth out the rough edges in his game, before you know it we have a ready made Nonu replacement for the 2015 WC.

There is no way Ranger should have been there in the first place. Sure he has talent but Hosea Gear has been the best winger by far in New Zealand for the last three years. Even Guildford and Dagg are far better players on the wing. Throw in Maitland too, and Sivivatu and Rococoko if they were fit. Ranger wasn't that bad last night for early in his career and certainly shouldn't be dropped. I'm confused as to why he has been allowed to jump into the All Blacks ahead of so many more deserving players. Since we're talking cricket, to make the Australian test team alot of players have to score 10,000 runs not just play Super14 quite well for two seasons. I think Ranger has what it takes but he never should have been picked for yesterday's match.

Also, I can't believe anyone can think a little kick warrants a yellow card like that. There was nothing in it! If the rules say that that should have been a yellow card then they need to be changed. A yellow card has too much of a bearing on the game for them to be handed out so freely. Everyone in my house was up in arms when he got shown that card.

 

[ranger]

There is no way Ranger should have been there in the first place. Sure he has talent but Hosea Gear has been the best winger by far in New Zealand for the last three years.Even Guildford and Dagg are far better players on the wing. Throw in Maitland too, and Sivivatu and Rococoko if they were fit. Ranger wasn't that bad last night for early in his career and certainly shouldn't be dropped. I'm confused as to why he has been allowed to jump into the All Blacks ahead of so many more deserving players. Since we're talking cricket, to make the Australian test team alot of players have to score 10,000 runs not just play Super14 quite well for two seasons. I think Ranger has what it takes but he never should have been picked for yesterday's match.

Also, I can't believe anyone can think a little kick warrants a yellow card like that. There was nothing in it! If the rules say that that should have been a yellow card then they need to be changed. A yellow card has too much of a bearing on the game for them to be handed out so freely. Everyone in my house was up in arms when he got shown that card.

You cant really compare him to other wingers because i don't think he has been chosen as an out and out wing. It looks to me that they have chosen him as a utility based on raw talent like they did with Toeava. It makes sense for me.
He can do things on a rugby field that other players just cant do, (AND THIS!) he does have some rough edges to his game but the coaching panel have obviously decided that they want to work on him directly and not just leave it up to his provincial/super 14 coaches. I dont really have a problem with that.

If we are running with the cricket analogy, some players are chosen for the Australian test team on the back of playing consistently well and scoring 10,000 runs. Rene Ranger he has been chosen based on the fact that although he isn't consistent, he can bowl a ball at 160ks and the coaches want to work with him directly.

 

[smartcooky]

Also, I can't believe anyone can think a little kick warrants a yellow card like that. There was nothing in it! If the rules say that that should have been a yellow card then they need to be changed. A yellow card has too much of a bearing on the game for them to be handed out so freely. Everyone in my house was up in arms when he got shown that card.

Firstly, the only person responsible for Danie Rossouw being shown a yellow card is Danie Rossouw. It was plain, unadulterated dumb rugby. He's a better player than that, and there was simply no need for him to do it.

Secondly, not only did he kick McCaw, he deliberately trod on his fingers, and scraped his face (very close to the eyes) with fingers in a "claw" position.... very very risky given all the recent disciplinary focus on "attacking the eyes" (Tincu, Atoub, Parisse, Dupuy, Burger etc). It was probably this act that made McCaw react as he did, totally out of character.

There is actually a very easy way that players can avoid being yellow carded for even minor acts of foul play, such as a small kick to a defenseless opponent on the ground, or flicking the eye area with your fingers.... don't do it, and especially, don't do it right in front of the referee.

 

[hawkeyecf]

*******.****.Reffing.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

My god, that game was completly All Black sided in the ref darpartment, let's run through it:

A yellow to Brussouw - for a fight that Richie McCaw started.
3 official warnings for Richie himself (not including the fight that saw Brussouw binned)
NOTHING for Rene Rangers shoulder charge on Zane.
Countless times that the All Blacks held our players on the ground.

Now we come to the citing..
Jean get's a two week ban for his "spear" tackle on Rene
Rene get's NOTHING for his shoulder charge on Zane

UTTER BULLSHIT.

How are the Boks expected to win with so much going against us?

 

[alex]

yep. it was the refs fault.

didnt know PDV was on TRF!

 

[smartcooky]

WHAT IS GOING ON?

My god, that game was completly All Black sided in the ref darpartment, let's run through it:

A yellow to Brussouw - for a fight that Richie McCaw started.
3 official warnings for Richie himself (not including the fight that saw Brussouw binned)
NOTHING for Rene Rangers shoulder charge on Zane.
Countless times that the All Blacks held our players on the ground.

Now we come to the citing..
Jean get's a two week ban for his "spear" tackle on Rene
Rene get's NOTHING for his shoulder charge on Zane

UTTER BULLSHIT.

How are the Boks expected to win with so much going against us?

Get your green eye patch off you ********

Your post isn't worth any other reply