England EPS 2016/17 season.

[TRF_Olyy]

Beaumont needs to up his work rate?!
Jeeze, how much do you want him doing, it's already through the roof!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Beaumont needs to up his work rate?!
Jeeze, how much do you want him doing, it's already through the roof!

Ok then, maybe not up his work rate but devote vote his work rate to other aspects of the game, like rucks hit

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ok then, maybe not up his work rate but devote vote his work rate to other aspects of the game, like rucks hit

At the expense of what? Need to be careful not to negate what he's very good at. Same goes for any player.

 

[JJFlash]

I've not seen a great deal of Beaumont, but what I have, he seems to be more in the mould of Kieran Read which I believe would be a very viable alternative to Billy V.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Another note on Beaumont, doesn't he captain the lineout at Sale? So adding him to the back row, not only means another lineout option, but also means that we can really bulk up the 2nd row with Lawes or Launch, as we wouldn't need a lineout operator there. That would make up for the physicality lost by replacing Vunipola with Beaumont.

At some point I'd love to see:
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Ewers
7. Underhill
8. Beaumont

A great mix of work rate, raw physicality as well as 4 lineout options (Can Underhill jump? If so then 5 lineout options).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe we could try
4) Launchbury
5) Lawes/Kruis
6) Itoje
7) Underhill
8) Cunipola

19) Beaumont
20) Clifford/Harrison

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ok then, maybe not up his work rate but devote vote his work rate to other aspects of the game, like rucks hit

Why do you think he doesn't hit rucks? He's not Heaslip or Croft hiding out on the wing

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Why do you think he doesn't hit rucks? He's not Heaslip or Croft hiding out on the wing

From what I've seen of him he's never appeared to really be willing to do the gritty work. He's always appeared to me to be more of a champagne player. But you support Sale, you've seen more of him than I have so I'll listen to you on this one.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hahahahahahahaha

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

What do people generally think of Dave Ewers? I rate him very highly, but others on this forum don't seem to feel the same way.

 

[Peat]

Why do you think he doesn't hit rucks? He's not Heaslip or Croft hiding out on the wing

Both of whom are notably busy and effective at the ruck when the game plan calls for it - stop blaming players for coaching decisions.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It was a jjooookkkee
I've always been a fan of croft

 

[Peat]

It was a jjooookkkee
I've always been a fan of croft

Oh. Nothing to see here then. ^_^

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

What does everyone think is our weakest position at the moment? With Hask, Kvesic, Harrison and (hopefully) soon Underhill, I don't think 7 is so much of a woe any more.
I think our biggest problem areas are 12 & 15. At 12 we have no one really. Faz is a 10, Slade's unexperienced and out of form (And plays most of his rugby at 13), Tuilagi is always injured, Burrell's... Burrell. And at 15, Brown's past his time, Goode continually fails at international level, Watson and Nowell are both inexperienced there at international level, and Haley's inexperienced full-stop.

Surprisingly I can also see 6 being a worry post-2017. Ewers seems to be the only young 6 around ATM. Harrison and Itoje can both do a job there, but ideally you'd want to keep them at 7 and 4. 2 as well, George looks good but whether he's an international starter or merely an impact sub is questionable. LCD can't throw lineouts and TT just doesn't fit the ball carrying, physical mould Jones wants (As well as being inexperienced).

Come to think of it, 9 too. After Robson, there are 0 young ones. At this rate, Care and Youngs may both be going to the next RWC.

Both props seem well covered. LH: Marler, Vunipola, Genge, Mullan, Hepburn, Auterac TH: Cole, Hill, Sinckler, Brookes.
There's an abundance of quality second rows, I won't list them, everyone knows who they are.
8 too, an abundance. Vunipola, Beaumont, Clifford, Hughes ( )
10 is a slight worry. After Faz and Ford you quickly run out of young 10s. Slade may get more game time there, hopefully, which would help that position.
13, like 10, after JJ and Daly you've kind of run out. Manu, when fit is good there (It's definitely his best position) but it's a big if as to whether he'll be fit.
Wings: Watson, Nowell, Yarde, May, Wade, Roko, Lewington etc.

 

[TobesHodges]

Of course an out and out 7 is always a worry, the only one we have in England is Kvesic, in hie sight maybe he should have been persisted with in the England set up earlier and for longer.

I think our weakest position is Full back after Brown who really is there? Haley? No one wants Goode. You could say Watson or Nowell but do it you want to lose our first choice wingers and miss that potency.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Of course an out and out 7 is always a worry, the only one we have in England is Kvesic, in hie sight maybe he should have been persisted with in the England set up earlier and for longer.

I think our weakest position is Full back after Brown who really is there? Haley? No one wants Goode. You could say Watson or Nowell but do it you want to lose our first choice wingers and miss that potency.

Do you really lose any potency on the wing if you were to put Nowell to 15? I think he's brilliant, and in my mind is the best outside back in England, but he's not "potent."

It is true though that by putting him at 15 you lose his work rate and kick chase, so we should probably try and refrain from it.

I think we should try and blood Haley. He showed with the Saxons that he's an excellent young player. The sooner he replaces Goode in the squad the better. Get some EPS experience in him.

As for Kvesic being the only out and out 7, I'm not sure they an out and out 7 is what this Englabd team needs. Jones is probably looking more for a very physical, very powerful flanker to carry on the Haskell role. That's why I think Teimana and Underhill will get the nod over him. The whole idea of this England pack is being powerful, physical and mobile. Kvesic just doesn't have the aggression for it.

 

[TobesHodges]

Actually thinking about the 7 position I think when England are defending I imagine Eddie puts a 7 on the back of Itoje which is kinda clever..

 

[The Jones Boy]

If Beaumont is as quick as you guys say then he has to be a real prospect for England where a genuine speedy no.8 hasn't been fielded since a certain Mr Dallaglio in his pomp.
English coaches have persisted with big blobs like Morgan and Easter et al but no.8 needs to be much more mobile in the modern game. The blobs get left behind when the pace quickens

 

[Peat]

What does everyone think is our weakest position at the moment?

In order of "Sweet mother of god why"

12
---
15
9
14
11
---
7
---
3
2
6
13
8
---
1
---
10
4
5

First category is "Halp! Halp! I need an adult!"

Second category is "Significant flaws"

Third category is "Move up or down depending on what you want from an openside"

Fourth category is "Acceptable but with unproven depth"

Fifth category is "Acceptable"

Sixth category is "Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

 

[McTallshort]

And despite hammering a side with supposedly one of the best "out and out 7s" 3 tests to nil many still obsess for that perfect jackal. It's all a big red herring, what players you play in the back row depends entirely on your game plan.