[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. South Africa (12/11/2016)

[TommiG88]

He's kind of got a point about the conditions. If it turns into an arm wrestle I can see fairly early entrances for Attwood, Hughes, Te'o and George.

Although he was trolling at the same time for a reaction with posting his post twice with slightly different wording. Can't be arsed with that.

 

[BakkiesBokke]

I'm also of the opinion that we are going to be one dimensional. If we had selected RJvR, we would at least have had alternative attacking options - we may even have been able to get it out to the wings!!

Our back row has a lot of grunt, but Whiteley offers mobility.

 

[spartan32]

I don't really think a coach like Mr Jones will let it get to an arm wrestle with the Boks. He's a ta tactician and I expect a game plan built around defeating this specific Bok.

As for our forwards, well they will smash this lazy fat Bok team up and down the park. That's what I keep telling myself, whether it's true or not I have to believe we will or we're all doomed!

Conditions will play their part, but I've got to mention the Japan game. Outsized and in some areas outpaced by the Boks they moved the ball from left to right and gave them no chance to play the one dimensional rugby SA like to play. A true tactical master stroke by EJ who knew exactly what was needed to overcome the impossible. Granted a slippery pill will make this tactic more challenging today but with tactical kickers like Daly, Ford and Faz all playing at the same time and with May, who is tall and arguably one of the fastest men in test rugby on the wing, we have any number of exit strategies and tactical attacking kicking options open to us. And as stated we have some heavyweights to bring on in the latter stages once the Boks tire. In addition the IRB has just ordered refs to crack down hard on high tackles, and we all know how the Boks love to tackle high and generally play dirty, especially the tall ones, which is their entire back row. Penalties are what lost the AB the Ireland game, and I suspect the same may be said for SA.

Not saying it's in the bag, but inany ways SA have more to loose then we do. If we lose it will, to some extent, be down to critical injuries, and demonstrate that we need to work on strength in depth. But we still have plenty of tactical styles of play to fall back on and quality coming through. If SA lose, having thrown every KG at their disposal playing the same style of rugby they have always played in conditions that favour that style of play, with no plan B in sight, then where do they go from there?

Come on England. Let's put these bullies to bed and demonstrate once and for all that's it's not the size of the player, but he does with it that counts.

 

[BakkiesBokke]

Not saying it's in the bag, but inany ways SA have more to loose then we do. If we lose it will, to some extent, be down to critical injuries, and demonstrate that we need to work on strength in depth. But we still have plenty of tactical styles of play to fall back on and quality coming through. If SA lose, having thrown every KG at their disposal playing the same style of rugby they have always played in conditions that favour that style of play, with no plan B in sight, then where do they go from there?

Interestingly, the England pack is 1kg heavier if Sport24 are to be believed.

I actually think the pressure is more on England. You have to win this! You may have a few injuries, but the Boks have been hollowed out by injury - this team is quite far removed from our best possible team.

On top of that, you've played well over the last year, whilst we have played kak. You're also playing at home with the bookies predicting a win by 7-12 points. If England lose, they will kick themselves!!

 

[Mumbles119]

Interestingly, the England pack is 1kg heavier if Sport24 are to be believed.

I actually think the pressure is more on England. You have to win this! You may have a few injuries, but the Boks have been hollowed out by injury - this team is quite far removed from our best possible team.

On top of that, you've played well over the last year, whilst we have played kak. You're also playing at home with the bookies predicting a win by 7-12 points. If England lose, they will kick themselves!!

During the interview with Eddie Jones, Sky Sports reported SA pack at 3 stone heavier. None of these are going to right I suppose.

 

[BakkiesBokke]

During the interview with Eddie Jones, Sky Sports reported SA pack at 3 stone heavier. None of these are going to right I suppose.

I suspect you are right - I wonder how frequently weights are published anyway. I'd imagine a forward's weight might vary by as much as 5kgs or so?

This is where I read that England's pack is heavier in the interest of sources etc. http://m.sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/coetzee-sets-out-aims-for-monster-pack-20161110

I guess Whiteley could be light for a number 8?

 

[Mumbles119]

I suspect you are right - I wonder how frequently weights are published anyway. I'd imagine a forward's weight might vary by as much as 5kgs or so?

This is where I read that England's pack is heavier in the interest of sources etc. http://m.sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/coetzee-sets-out-aims-for-monster-pack-20161110

I guess Whiteley could be light for a number 8?

Feels bizarre to say it, but yes Whiteley is the lightweight in SA back row, whilst Alberts and Du Toit are the monsters.

So SA starting with 6. Monster, 7. Monster, 8. Lightweight

ENG starting with 6. Lightweight, 7. Lightweight, 8. Monster.

Which is why I suppose Hughes is on the bench, to replace Wood probably and balance out the Monster to Lightweight ratio if required.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

England's pack is always heavier than expected when the Vunipola bros are playing. 41 stone between them when they first played together, I think they've both slimmed down a little since then.

Robshaw and Wood are both over 17 stone, so not exactly lightweight either.

 

[Mumbles119]

England's pack is always heavier than expected when the Vunipola bros are playing. 41 stone between them when they first played together, I think they've both slimmed down a little since then.

Robshaw and Wood are both over 17 stone, so not exactly lightweight either.

Yes definitely.

My Monster to Lightweight ratio post is very tongue in cheek. The point being that Whiteley, Wood, Robshaw are definitely not lightweights, but bizarrely made to look like the smaller selections compared to the other bulk in the back rows.

 

[Colombia]

I don't really think a coach like Mr Jones will let it get to an arm wrestle with the Boks. He's a ta tactician and I expect a game plan built around defeating this specific Bok.

As for our forwards, well they will smash this lazy fat Bok team up and down the park. That's what I keep telling myself, whether it's true or not I have to believe we will or we're all doomed!

Mr Jones doesn't get to decide any of that, it's down to the men on the pitch. Ultimately, you can't mess with eight angry men who are much bigger and stronger than you. The NZ team found that out in 2009 when they were whitewashed by the Bok pack 3-0.

Conditions will play their part, but I've got to mention the Japan game. Outsized and in some areas outpaced by the Boks they moved the ball from left to right and gave them no chance to play the one dimensional rugby SA like to play.

Let's be honest, England are much more oafish than the Japanese with their slick handling and intelligent running lines. What have England really created from 9/10/12 this year with any conistency? This notion that England are some great rugby players capable of outskilling SA isn't based on very much at all, more blind hope than anything. Truth is, England are pretty one-dimensional themselves, and SA have the bigger guns in this arm-wrestle.

We also have to factor in that the Boer does not like the Englishman whom he believes murdered his ancestors and stole his land, the sight of a white shirt is a red rag to a bull. This, in part, explains why England have not beaten them for a decade.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

We also have to factor in that the Boer does not like the Englishman whom he believes murdered his ancestors and stole his land, the sight of a white shirt is a red rag to a bull. This, in part, explains why England have not beaten them for a decade.

So what? The Welsh, Scottish, Irish, French and Aussies hate us too. Most, arguably, with more reason to and more passion than SA

 

[Every Time Ref]

Funny thing is, I can't imagine a more stereotypically English upper class way of saying it than "Oafish"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So what? The Welsh, Scottish, Irish, French and Aussies hate us too. Most, arguably, with more reason to and more passion than SA

Ennit,
Back of the line SA.

 

[BakkiesBokke]

Terrible post Colombia! I'm a "boer" and I don't hate anyone, you'd be disappointed to know! I've moved on for the early 1900s funnily enough.

Phenomenal as the Japanese were against the Boks at last year's RWC, it is crude to suggest they are more skillful than the English.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I have the feeling we'll lose this, I just think that Alberts, Etzebeth, Jager, Strauss and Du Toit are running down that 10 channel. No matter who it is you cant stop them getting over the line, I don't like Hughes playing for us but he may have been the better choice...

 

[Aristodemus]

Haskell is a born pundit.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Match live
http://espni.go.com/player/video/directv/index.htm?videoid=32088535#video/32088535

 

[TheOvalBall]

So, will kicking high balls to South Africa be the English tactic ?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

FFS stop giving away penalties

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cole and Wood on the pitch, Hughes on the bench, we'll be giving away ruck penalties until the cows come home