[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Ireland vs. New Zealand (05/11/2016)

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_heineken, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. The Jones Boy

    The Jones Boy First XV

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    I think Smith has suffered a loss of form since his toilet issue....
    Perenara has staked a strong claim and I would have let him run and taught Smith a hard lesson. Behave yourself because the production line has another to replace you if you don't want to toe the line.
     
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  3. Makos

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    I'm of the same opinion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  4. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    I'd say Stander also has a stake in that
     
  5. bazwaz

    bazwaz Academy Player

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    There is a difference between being dropped to the bench and dropped from the team...
    Was it madness to drop Cruden after he has won every game he's started for at 10 for the ABs?...Some background information may be required here - Barret was brought in as a replacement for Cruden when he was injured so to suggest we revert back to a former proven to be 100% successful pivot after the other has had two poor games in a row is actually thinking quite rationally i would suggest...
     
  6. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    At 6? Kaino is in a league of his own there. At 8? Well World Rugby would tell you that's either Billy Vunipola or Jamie Heaslip! :)
     
  7. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    I'd disagree on 6. I think Kaino is probably best of lot on form but Stander certainly there as is POM amogst few others.
    8 is basically a "what do you like in 8" thing. Both up for award yet it very realistic neither will start for Lions.
    Gatland loves Toby.
     
  8. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    I think if you can say that Henshaw can compete for a shirt in the World XV against the likes of Crotty, SBW, ALB, Farrell, Roberts etc. Then it's reasonable to say Stander has a shot at 6/8.
     
  9. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref First XV

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    I don't know if it was, short memory! But Barrett earned his place, if you don't think he's good enough overall fair enough but talk of dropping him just due to Saturday's performance is madness

    I don't set much stall by Cruden's 100% success though, he's only 1 of 15. A 90% win rate or whatever over recent years means someone is likely to have ended up with a 100% record due to law of averages.
     
  10. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Wow, you link this 1.2millions figure to this SIFA website and expect peeps to pay $195 to see the breakdown of this figure in terms of age, gender and geographical location? Why don't you pay (assuming you're not a member) and post up the breakdown?

    Just out of interest how many times have you been to the US and travelled round there to get a gauge of the mentality of Americans and their love of sports and the coverage of their sports out there? I am not just talking about you gauging it from these websites and NZ media coverage of how rugby is growing massively in the US.

    Rugby is not just about the All Blacks and yes Americans love winners, but they mostly love American winners. The ABs will be a novelty to them, but it will soon wear off until the American Eagles start doing something.
     
  11. Makos

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    I've found our discussion some what unpleasant and I don't really wish continuing it. I have tried my best to work of statistics and evidence rather than anecdotes and opinion. Pretty much any source and statistic I put fourth you dismissed, so there isn't really much point to continue this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  12. bazwaz

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    @ Every time ref
    don't know if it was, short memory! But Barrett earned his place, if you don't think he's good enough overall fair enough but talk of dropping him just due to Saturday's performance is madness

    I don't set much stall by Cruden's 100% success though, he's only 1 of 15. A 90% win rate or whatever over recent years means someone is likely to have ended up with a 100% record due to law of averages.




    He earned his place but so did Cruden by never losing a game he's started for the ABs at 10...Both Barret and Cruden won a game each against each other this year in Super Rugby so not much in it i'll admit...
    ...but like i said it's not madness to revert back to the status quo of this year where Barret started at 22 and we won every game...call it rotation if you like..
     
  13. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Fine. But next time put some substance behind those statistics and maybe you'll have something to back up what you believe or are trying to argue. You called me uneducated - FYI I am educated to university level and have travelled extensively around the US. But your posts show no real understanding of just how the American sports market really works and how difficult it will be for 15 man rugby union to really crack the American market on a mass market level. I also think you vastly overestimate how much brand power the ABs has in the US to the average American sports fan because of 1 loss.
     
  14. Makos

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    You seem to have a serious case of taking things out off context and an argumentative personality which makes you unpleasant to converse with. I said you seemed uneducated on the American rugby situation. Not that you're 'uneducated' in general. I put fourth what sources are available on the internet, you put fourth opinion. I had more substances than what you were giving, all you did was discredit and undermine rather than provide any information or analysis yourself.
     
  15. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref First XV

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    If that is the case I agree. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting as I haven't followed all the NZ threads that closely, but my impression has been that there is suddenly a call for Barrett to be dropped purely on the basis of Saturday's performance. That is madness, the logic you're following isn't, fair enough.
     
  16. themole25

    themole25 First XV

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    as an economics student who specializes in econometrics, whenever you do a statistical study you start off with your goal and then find the numbers to back it up

    it's how all statistical research in the private sector works... they are meant to deliver whatever message the author wants to send

    - - - Updated - - -

    you are putting forth statistics that have zero substance... bad statistics is worse than zero statistics

    have you taken stats classes or math past trig? anything in research methods?

    you are also pushing the argument that quantitative is superior to qualitative evidence which is laughable at worst and arguable at best
     
  17. Makos

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    Surely the fact America has nearly the same amount of registered players as NZ can't be overlooked as a market option.

    America has a far larger ceiling than NZ due to population as well.

    Anyhow I hope we continue these test matches in America, they're fun and it's great hearing from Americans about the game. Some of the tweets during the All Blacks vs USA Eagles was particular entertaining the other year.

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/us-public-react-hilariously-to-nuts-and-intense-all-blacks-rugby-test/news-story/67b8010dff9b0796da83d30700beea95

    Why are they bad?

    granted that SIFA one isn't strong, but what's bad about the amount of registered players and the audience the game reached?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  18. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    Four times with a total time span of near 6 months and I think you are far overtalking the problems of interest in rugby in the USA.
     
  19. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Hey it's a discussion board buddy, if you don't want to reply or converse please put me on your ignore list. If not, again have you had any real life experience of visiting the USA rather just picking off statistics from the internet? If you have, then do please share your experiences. As others, not just myself, have said statistics can be manipulated to suit an argument, unless there's some substance behind them. You showed a link to your 1.2 million participation stat, - fine but only problem is to look further into this stat you need to pay US$200 to see how this figure is broken down. Does this figure include 7s participation, a game which is different from the 15s game, which you said was the fastest growing in the US in the last 5 years.
     
  20. Makos

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    I haven't personally, but your compatriot has, so good luck in response to his comment 'buddy'.

    By your attitude America isn't even worth mentioning rugby to.

    Which I simply don't agree with.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  21. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Well I am glad you have been going through my posting history so thoroughly Peat. Until I see some real evidence of the 15 man rugby game really taking off in the US I remain a cynic that it'll be anything but a niche sport there.
     
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