[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

[martinspoonboy1]

For me Robshaw doesn't have a place in this team. The only justification people seem to have for him is that he's a workhorse. The thing about being a workhorse is that you can actually see whether it's true or not in the stats by how many tackles they've made, and looking at the stats he tends to actually be pretty average, repeatedly outdone by the likes of Itoje, Lawes, Launch, Underhill, Simmonds and even Mako who tends to only play around 50 minutes. Considering all of those other options offer more in attack, the lineout or in Underhills's case is much more physical in defence, I just don't see how his place can be justified. His time has come IMO. Underhill and Simmonds are both better flankers.

I though Robshaw had a great game . Was an absolute nuisance at the breakdown. Garces was constantly shouting hands away 7, roll away 7 without penalising whic shows he was slowing down ball by playing on the edge. As a result, England pretty much always had that solid white line of defence. As the cliche goes, it's the unseen stuff he excels at!

 

[spartan32]

Well - first 20 minutes was ok, but the game deteriorated into much ado about nowt. I reckon the try that might have been for Wales is being amply discussed. Let's face it, there was hardly much else.

Having watched most of the 6n games so far, for the first time live in some years, I can see why The RugbyChampionship and super rugby are much more of a pull for many people. So little enterprise in these games.

Clearly you fail to understand the nature of the 6 nations, and the 5 nations before it. It is about so much more than just rugby with the weight of history and national rivalries that are centuries old. The tension in the matches can usually be cut with a knife. Each one is like a RWC final, especially when the Celts play England. This kind of pressure never lends itself well to free flowing champagne rugby, much like the knockout stages in the RWC no matter who is playing, but there's always plenty of drama and excitement and passion by the bucket load. Plus the weather yesterday didn't exactly help matters.

And yet I really enjoyed the game. Some great moments and of course an England win.

The 6 nations is the best sporting competition in the world. You can keep your Rugby Champinship with its showy none sense. Give me hard yards, passionate players, cold beer, warm pies in grotty weather every time.

 

[spartan32]

Well - first 20 minutes was ok, but the game deteriorated into much ado about nowt. I reckon the try that might have been for Wales is being amply discussed. Let's face it, there was hardly much else.

Having watched most of the 6n games so far, for the first time live in some years, I can see why The RugbyChampionship and super rugby are much more of a pull for many people. So little enterprise in these games.

Clearly you fail to understand the nature of the 6 nations, and the 5 nations before it. It is about so much more than just rugby with the weight of history and national rivalries that are centuries old. The tension in the matches can usually be cut with a knife. Each one is like a RWC final, especially when the Celts play England. This kind of pressure never lends itself well to free flowing champagne rugby, much like the knockout stages in the RWC no matter who is playing, but there's always plenty of drama and excitement and passion by the bucket load. Plus the weather yesterday didn't exactly help matters.

And yet I really enjoyed the game. Some great moments and of course an England win.

The 6 nations is the best sporting competition in the world. You can keep your Rugby Champinship with its showy none sense. Give me hard yards, passionate players, cold beer, warm pies in grotty weather every time.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

For me Robshaw doesn't have a place in this team. The only justification people seem to have for him is that he's a workhorse. The thing about being a workhorse is that you can actually see whether it's true or not in the stats by how many tackles they've made, and looking at the stats he tends to actually be pretty average, repeatedly outdone by the likes of Itoje, Lawes, Launch, Underhill, Simmonds and even Mako who tends to only play around 50 minutes. Considering all of those other options offer more in attack, the lineout or in Underhills's case is much more physical in defence, I just don't see how his place can be justified. His time has come IMO. Underhill and Simmonds are both better flankers.

I though Robshaw had a great game . Was an absolute nuisance at the breakdown. Garces was constantly shouting hands away 7, roll away 7 without penalising whic shows he was slowing down ball by playing on the edge. As a result, England pretty much always had that solid white line of defence. As the cliche goes, it's the unseen stuff he excels at!

At international level he hasn't shown himself quite at his Scarlets level yet but being a regular watcher of Scarlets games, Evans is more than just a finisher and a quick stepper, he brings others into the game and is very creative for a winger. I like my wingers having these attributes, I'm very much in the minority I'm sure, but others will prefer different style wingers. Just my opinion though.

But where is he better than Watson?
What parts of his game do you think are better?

 

[spartan32]

Haven't bothered going back over all the previous posts but I'd imagine a lot of chat about the try that wasn't. For my part I'd suggest that it probably was a try but like EJ said after, it wasn't given so why talk about it further.

In any event Wales didn't lose because of one decision by the TMO, they lost because of a raft of bad decisions by their own players. Kickin for the corner with points on offer, poor execution in the red zone etc. Had they manage the game better things may have ended differently.

That's not to take anything away fro our boys. Great opening 20 minutes or so. We really looked like we may run away with it. Great to see Care starting and shifting the ball quickly away, injecting some real pace into the attack. Some lovely touches and kicking, but then we just seemed to come off the boil, and then stayed on simmer for the rest of the game, letting Wales get their tails up.

Thought Launch was excellent, JJ was defo the right starting choice and will now likely start every match, Faz and Ford on really good form, Robshaw solid as a rock, Brown being Brown, May showing his imperious Pace, good to see pirate Jack back and looking ok. All in all some positives, although we really should have put that game to bed long before the end of the game, and opportunities to score points were squandered. Defence was also a bit creaky. The missed tackle stats aren't great and that needs sorting before we have to deal with the Irish.

But all being said and done it's another win and the dream remains alive. And Gatland being made to look like a bulldog licking a pissy thistle always puts a smile on my face.

 

[JJFlash]

One aspect of the game that struck me was the penalty count. Now I've not seen the stats but it seems to be that Wales were either very well disciplined or Garçes was lenient with them. Did Farrell have a penalty shot at goal? I don't think so.

I must admit that I'd been calling for Mike Brown to be dropped, but yeterday he was majestic under the high ball and made loads of yards with ball in hand.

And of course it wasn't a try! Clear as day! The TMO said so!

Finally, Launchbury. Why the hell wasn't he taken on the Lions tour? A travesty indeed!

 

[bushytop]

Well - first 20 minutes was ok, but the game deteriorated into much ado about nowt. I reckon the try that might have been for Wales is being amply discussed. Let's face it, there was hardly much else.

Having watched most of the 6n games so far, for the first time live in some years, I can see why The RugbyChampionship and super rugby are much more of a pull for many people. So little enterprise in these games.

No side broke yesterday... when it's that competitive and neither side capitulates... a massively competitive pressure cooker of a game is what you get. You don't really see those sorts of games down south and the rugby championship is weaker because of it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On Robshaw. He does the unseen stuff, but so do others, last week Simmonds rackedup 23 tackles before switching on the afterburners for his tries. That showed his point of difference. Yesterday Underhill came up with quite possibly a match saving intervention.

I'd expect a flanker, especially one who's worn 7 a lot to rack up a reasonable number of tries. Robshaw has 2 in 61, even Cole and Launch who are supposed to spend the majority of the match in dark places have 4 each. The king of the unseen, Richard Hill racked up 12 in 71, Back 16, Worsley 10, Moody 9 etc. It's not the be all and end all, but just another factor in my view that it's time to try other combinations.

 

[bushytop]

On Robshaw. He does the unseen stuff, but so do others, last week Simmonds rackedup 23 tackles before switching on the afterburners for his tries. That showed his point of difference. Yesterday Underhill came up with quite possibly a match saving intervention.

I'd expect a flanker, especially one who's worn 7 a lot to rack up a reasonable number of tries. Robshaw has 2 in 61, even Cole and Launch who are supposed to spend the majority of the match in dark places have 4 each. The king of the unseen, Richard Hill racked up 12 in 71, Back 16, Worsley 10, Moody 9 etc. It's not the be all and end all, but just another factor in my view that it's time to try other combinations.

I think the English back row done ok all things considered. A Lock, a 7 who's not a 7 and a guy to small to be at 8 we're very competitive against a pretty balanced Welsh three.

Interested to know what Gatlands first choice back row will be when everyone is fit. I would probably go Warburton 7, Moriarty 6 and Faletau at 8. This does feel incredibly tough on Navidi and Shingler (and Tipuric) but you can only have three.

 

[Bluemoon]

Personally, I thought the English back row was excellent in defence. The game plan was clear to me, didn't really go for the jackal, just did an excellent job of spoiling and slowing the ball. Someone above used the term nuisance, and I'd agree with that. Gareth Davies and Patchell are not used to slow ball and a slow game, and it showed. A lot of static phases, which often ended in terrible kicks by Wales, which was easily fielded by the English back three.

 

[Brigantine]

For what I anticipated, Wales England, Ireland France and Wales Scotland were major footballing disappointments. Honestly found myself wanting today's game to just end.

So it's only Italy that keeps the 6N interesting?

(I only watched 6NB games yet so I wouldn't know.)

 

[The5thOfficial]

For what I anticipated, Wales England, Ireland France and Wales Scotland were major footballing disappointments. Honestly found myself wanting today's game to just end.

LOL there were quite a few just wanted the game to end, mostly english supporters and players who were suffering from anal dilations brought on by the fear of a Wales come back and win. That 'non try' has created quite a bit of debate - well not debate, criticism of the TMO who was obviously blinded by the light. Or something! Ah well, well done England, but it was close, again!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It seems it defence becomes looser with Te'o on the pitch. Also for all the talk about the try, the reg allowed Welsh players to frequently lie on the wrong side of the ruck when England got into the 22, more than one of the turnovers was done so illegally and all in lockable range.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It'll be close, I imagine Wales fans will again laud the progress of their team while the English will wonder why it was so difficult for them to win but nothing will be too surprising.

I am good, so good!

 

[The5thOfficial]

I am good, so good!

Ha ha Alpha Bro seeing the writing on the wall. I can see gold stars being handed out again!

 

[bushytop]

I am good, so good!

Self congratulation... a distinctly Irish trait.

 

[smartcooky]

Southern Hemisphere TMO called the non try. Is he waiting on his brown envelope outside twickers.

Correct decision IMO. To me, it looks like both players grounded the ball together (both had their right hand on the ball when it touched the ground). If that is the case, it is no try.

Law 21 DOUBT ABOUT GROUNDING
20. If there is doubt about which team first grounded the ball in in-goal, play is restarted with a
five-metre scrum, in line with the place where the ball was grounded. The attacking team
throws in.

 

[Which Tyler]

Correct decision IMO. To me, it looks like both players grounded the ball together (both had their right hand on the ball when it touched the ground). If that is the case, it is no try.

Law 21 DOUBT ABOUT GROUNDING
20. If there is doubt about which team first grounded the ball in in-goal, play is restarted with a
five-metre scrum, in line with the place where the ball was grounded. The attacking team
throws in.

Not that the TMO had still shots to look at.

I can never remember - is downwards pressure a requirement these days? I know it isn't when the ball is controlled, but is it when it's a slap like that?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Is there a definition of "control" in the laws??

 

[ncurd]

1. The ball can be grounded in in-goal:
   1. 
      
      
   2. By holding it and touching the ground with it; or
      
      
   3. By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player's body from waist to neck.