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South Africa squad for England tests

I read somewhere that F.Steyn will not be available for the first test... (wedding?) Makes me think that we might just see 12. JdV 13. Meisiekind

Heck maybe even 12. Lambie and 13. JdV

Or a debut for Engelbrecht? We breathlessly await Wednesday, filled with anticipation and just a dash of dread...
 
Okay, I heard he was going to miss 1 because of getting married but thought (thinking of the honeymoon) he'd get married the day of the 3rd test. Like you said, waiting on the starting XV announcement as there are a number of possible line-ups all equally likely.
 
and I have a date on Wednesday night, will you sms me the starting XV?
 
and I have a date on Wednesday night, will you sms me the starting XV?

PM me your cell# and I will do. Are you sure that you'd want it though? I mean, lets say your date is going well and I SMS something that contains the following:

4 Alberts
7 Kankowski
8 Spies
12 Olivier
13 De Villiers (c)
15 Kirschner

I'm just being considerate of your stomach.
 
How can a player arrange a wedding in the middle of a rugby season. That is what December are for- office parties, xmas, holiday and weddings. fark!

I wonder if Steyn realise that his wife to be allready wears the 'pants". Poor guy, he won't be the same after the wedding.
 
Rugby season is over for him. It ended 2 weeks ago.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
 
Rugby season is over for him. It ended 2 weeks ago.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

He surely must have knew that he will be in Meyers squad. After all, Meyer did went overseas and had a chat with him and other contenders do tell them where they stand with him and what he expects from them etc.

To be honest though it is a pretty girl he is getting married to. if I am married to het she can also wear the pants.... as long as they are short and tight and I can have the remote :p
 
Well, I prefer women without pants, but that's a whole different discussion haha.

You only get married once (well, should be once) so I don't worry about it too much. Let him have some fun. In a few years they'll be happily married. She'll be happy, he'll be married haha

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PM me your cell# and I will do. Are you sure that you'd want it though? I mean, lets say your date is going well and I SMS something that contains the following:

4 Alberts
7 Kankowski
8 Spies
12 Olivier
13 De Villiers (c)
15 Kirschner

I'm just being considerate of your stomach.

I'd probably show her the brighter and nice side of vocabulary...
 
Kanko is not that bad ;)

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
 
To all is so upset that Brussauw is not in the squad, this was posted on keo.co.za and I agree 100%

Coetzee is the future

6 Jun 2012
RYAN VREDE writes Marcell Coetzee is the natural successor to Schalk Burger, with Heinrich Brussow’s limitations as an openside seeing his Test future hanging in the balance.
Coetzee is the real deal. You get a sense about these things when you’ve seen enough impostors to know the difference. I remember being awed watching an 18-year-old Frans Steyn’s performance in torrential rain at Kings Park for the Sharks against Western Province in 2006. Coetzee has had me incredulous at times this season in the same way Steyn did six years ago and indeed as other players of their ilk have. They are a class apart, born not only to play Test rugby, but excel in elevated company.
Schalk Burger will be remembered as one of the great Springboks in history when he retires. There were concerns about the void the 29-year-old will leave when his battle-battered body eventually betrays him. And it will. Burger only has one gear â€" over-drive â€" and knowing nothing else but absolute commitment to the cause, he has scant regard for his longevity in the game. The South African rugby fraternity can take heart that in Coetzee there is a successor of immense quality.
Three years ago Brussow announced himself on the Test stage by tormenting the British & Irish Lions, and his value endured to the point where it was largely accepted that his injury-enforced early exit from the World Cup quarter-final was central to the Springboks’ defeat. But that was a time when a greater contest was allowed and under a coaching staff that overlooked Brussow’s relatively diminutive constitution because of the asset he was on the ground.
But Brussow’s future now looks bleak for a number of reasons. Future changes to the breakdown laws will increasingly favour the attacking team, gradually eroding the importance and value of a specialist fetcher (already statistically in 2012 Brussow has stolen nearly as many balls as penalties conceded). Indeed, Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer believes the laws that govern that facet of play already demand the selection of an openside flanker adept at contesting the breakdown in a bid to slow or turnover possession, as he is at carrying the ball, while having the height to be a lineout option is a bonus.
Coetzee ticks all those boxes, Brussow two at a push. Undoubtedly the Cheetahs man is a competent carrier, but Coetzee has shown himself to be a greater force, his muscular, 106kg frame better equipping him than Brussow’s stocky 100kg does in this regard. Both possess a high degree of mongrel (a key ingredient that a physical god like Pierre Spies lacks and which accounts primarily for his inability to consistently boss the tackle fight) but Coetzee’s aforementioned physical superiority amplifies his threat.
Coetzee, who started his career as a No 8 and later moved to blindside flank, readily admits he isn’t close to Brussow in terms of his contesting skills. But Meyer, who believes Coetzee will become a ‘superstar’ at openside, doesn’t care. He offers a multi-faceted threat that Brussow doesn’t (by Meyer’s standards), and, given he is close to his physical ceiling, probably never will.
The best Brussow can hope for now is a role as an impact player. Coetzee may have to bide his time when Burger returns from injury, but he is the future.
 
How can a player arrange a wedding in the middle of a rugby season. That is what December are for- office parties, xmas, holiday and weddings. fark!

I wonder if Steyn realise that his wife to be allready wears the 'pants". Poor guy, he won't be the same after the wedding.

Rugby season is over for him. It ended 2 weeks ago.

Even if his season is over, why in the middle of the SA winter???
 
Even if his season is over, why in the middle of the SA winter???

Because then you can spoon lekker.

however he is in the team for saturday so I guess rugby won again. Good start for his marriage :lol:
 
Because then you can spoon lekker.

however he is in the team for saturday so I guess rugby won again. Good start for his marriage :lol:

Haha fair enough...

I think his marriage is on the same weekend as the last test, that's why he is currently in the team.
 
Haha fair enough...

I think his marriage is on the same weekend as the last test, that's why he is currently in the team.

Which will be a formality, just like the Lions tour in '09

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
 
To all is so upset that Brussauw is not in the squad, this was posted on keo.co.za and I agree 100%

Coetzee is the future

6 Jun 2012
RYAN VREDE writes Marcell Coetzee is the natural successor to Schalk Burger, with Heinrich Brussow's limitations as an openside seeing his Test future hanging in the balance.
Coetzee is the real deal. You get a sense about these things when you've seen enough impostors to know the difference. I remember being awed watching an 18-year-old Frans Steyn's performance in torrential rain at Kings Park for the Sharks against Western Province in 2006. Coetzee has had me incredulous at times this season in the same way Steyn did six years ago and indeed as other players of their ilk have. They are a class apart, born not only to play Test rugby, but excel in elevated company.
Schalk Burger will be remembered as one of the great Springboks in history when he retires. There were concerns about the void the 29-year-old will leave when his battle-battered body eventually betrays him. And it will. Burger only has one gear – over-drive – and knowing nothing else but absolute commitment to the cause, he has scant regard for his longevity in the game. The South African rugby fraternity can take heart that in Coetzee there is a successor of immense quality.
Three years ago Brussow announced himself on the Test stage by tormenting the British & Irish Lions, and his value endured to the point where it was largely accepted that his injury-enforced early exit from the World Cup quarter-final was central to the Springboks' defeat. But that was a time when a greater contest was allowed and under a coaching staff that overlooked Brussow's relatively diminutive constitution because of the asset he was on the ground.
But Brussow's future now looks bleak for a number of reasons. Future changes to the breakdown laws will increasingly favour the attacking team, gradually eroding the importance and value of a specialist fetcher (already statistically in 2012 Brussow has stolen nearly as many balls as penalties conceded). Indeed, Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer believes the laws that govern that facet of play already demand the selection of an openside flanker adept at contesting the breakdown in a bid to slow or turnover possession, as he is at carrying the ball, while having the height to be a lineout option is a bonus.
Coetzee ticks all those boxes, Brussow two at a push. Undoubtedly the Cheetahs man is a competent carrier, but Coetzee has shown himself to be a greater force, his muscular, 106kg frame better equipping him than Brussow's stocky 100kg does in this regard. Both possess a high degree of mongrel (a key ingredient that a physical god like Pierre Spies lacks and which accounts primarily for his inability to consistently boss the tackle fight) but Coetzee's aforementioned physical superiority amplifies his threat.
Coetzee, who started his career as a No 8 and later moved to blindside flank, readily admits he isn't close to Brussow in terms of his contesting skills. But Meyer, who believes Coetzee will become a 'superstar' at openside, doesn't care. He offers a multi-faceted threat that Brussow doesn't (by Meyer's standards), and, given he is close to his physical ceiling, probably never will.
The best Brussow can hope for now is a role as an impact player. Coetzee may have to bide his time when Burger returns from injury, but he is the future.

While I can see the reasoning behind Brussows exclusion, I can't actually agree with this reasoning, as I still see having a genuine ball-stealing openside flanker as a vital component of any starting XV*. When we have been playing South Africa over the last few seasons Brussow is one of the South African players that really worries me - I don't think it is a complete coincidence that South Africa are played 4, won 4 against us when Brussow has started at 6! I think Australia's run at the RWC highlighted the importance of a genuine open-side for me. Australia was outplayed at the breakdown against Ireland as they lacked a genuine 7 (Pocock was ruled out, with McCalman starting at 7). Pocock was back against South Africa in the quarters, and (legally or not) dominated the breakdown, which he was able to do because Brussow went off injured early in the game. Had Brussow stayed on there is no doubt in my mind South Africa would have won that game, as he would have got away with as much at the breakdown as Pocock, and having someone who is quick to clear out at the breakdown can help to neutralize the opposition openside flanker.

I know Brussow hasn't been in outstanding form this season (I didn't think he has been that bad though), but if I was selecting the team I would have him starting at 6. Meyer did mention that this squad was specifically for the England series, so we may see him back in the Rugby Championship (though as a NZ supporter, I hope not!). This is certainly not a slight on Coetzee - indeed I think he has been superb this season, and I would definitely start him at 7, as he is to me an ideal blindside flanker.

EDIT: As a slight aside, I found the bit about strange that Coetzees height, meaning he would be a greater lineout option, was mentioned. There is no doubt he is much taller than Brussow, however this season Coetzee has won 0 lineouts for the Sharks (yes that was a 0). Brussow has won 15 lineouts for the Cheetahs (obviously long throws over the tail of the lineout) - though Coetzee's height potentially make him a better lineout option, the stats tell a very different story!

*As a disclaimer: I'm sure my thoughts on this a very much influenced by the importance NZ has placed on a genuine openside over the last 15-20 years, and the failures we have had trying to convert blindside/number 8's into openside flankers. I certainly understand the other countries place very different importance on various aspects of different positions!
 
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Yes but don't forget that we had Brussow as a fetcher while Smit was our starting hooker and Bismarck was on the bench. Now we have Bismarck as our first choice hooker (FINALLY!!!) so that gives us a fetcher already, which makes way for a more diverse flanker, hence Coetzee. People will be surprised by the impact Coetzee will make
 
Yes but don't forget that we had Brussow as a fetcher while Smit was our starting hooker and Bismarck was on the bench. Now we have Bismarck as our first choice hooker (FINALLY!!!) so that gives us a fetcher already, which makes way for a more diverse flanker, hence Coetzee. People will be surprised by the impact Coetzee will make

While I agree it helps to have other players who are strong at the breakdown on the park, I personally don't think this negates the necessity for a genuine openside flanker. While du Plessis can be handy at the breakdown in open play, he isn't much use from directly from set play, as he is either hooking the scrum or throwing into the lineout - therefore you are missing a quality 'pilferer' in those situations. I don't think not having a specialist openside will cost South Africa that much against England, as they themselves aren't playing a specialist in that position, but I do think it will cost them against NZ and Australia (and I think they would have had an obvious advantage at the breakdown had they included Brussow against England).
 
EDIT: As a slight aside, I found the bit about strange that Coetzees height, meaning he would be a greater lineout option, was mentioned. There is no doubt he is much taller than Brussow, however this season Coetzee has won 0 lineouts for the Sharks (yes that was a 0). Brussow has won 15 lineouts for the Cheetahs (obviously long throws over the tail of the lineout) - though Coetzee's height potentially make him a better lineout option, the stats tell a very different story!

*As a disclaimer: I'm sure my thoughts on this a very much influenced by the importance NZ has placed on a genuine openside over the last 15-20 years, and the failures we have had trying to convert blindside/number 8's into openside flankers. I certainly understand the other countries place very different importance on various aspects of different positions!

ACtually no, Brussouw was mainly used as a jumper in front of the lineout. where just the front prop picked him up.

As for the fetcher role, Brussouw might feature again in the rugby championships against the AB's and the Wallabies. but vs England, I feel his exclusion is warranted.
 
ACtually no, Brussouw was mainly used as a jumper in front of the lineout. where just the front prop picked him up.

As for the fetcher role, Brussouw might feature again in the rugby championships against the AB's and the Wallabies. but vs England, I feel his exclusion is warranted.

Thanks for clarifying that heineken - I stand corrected. I obviously haven't watched the Cheetahs play enough this year!
 

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