[2014 EOYT] Ireland vs South Africa

[munstermuffin]

Even if I were to accept your first sentence, which I don't (better at tackling? eh?), it doesn't change my argument one whit. The injured pack is not weak in those areas. It's not weak in any area. And that is why it trumps the starting pack. The starting pack does contain more starters, there's almost definitely things it does better, but it's got a glaring weakness and the pack that doesn't is better.

As for Jordi Murphy being lucky to be at camp, that's risible.

And if you're not saying they can't be equal, why the hell are you arguing? Actually, why am I bothering to argue...

Stats show lads starting have better tackling rates than missing guys. My point is basically it's hard to say much about "missing pack". As most haven't done a lot lately.

And I never said they couldn't be equal just simply its dismissing players there (most who've earned spots).

Regards Murphy. I don't rate him much and comment isn't really risible.
Henry POM and Heaslip all ahead. Tommy O'Donnell and Ruddock are in form and ahead. Dom Ryan is much better if he can stop leaking pens. Then take in injured guys. SOB, Henderson and I'm probably leaving 1 or 2 others out too. You can hardly say he's a certainty for camp? Never mind team. Would he make a fully fit Leinster 23. I don't think so maybe I'm wrong.
@profitius
Ruddock maybe for bench. Ah You I hear will be ahead of Archer. Great if Zebo starts and it's not the worst team to send. Vital that we keep 9&10 protected

 

[munstermuffin]

So the team is looking like

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Payne
12 Henshaw
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Murray

1 McGrath
2 Cronin
3 Ross
4 Toner
5 O'Connell
6 O'Mahony
7 Henry
8 Heaslip

16 Strauss
17 Kilcoyne
18 Archer or Ah You
19 Foley or McCarthy
20 O'Donnell or Dominic Ryan
21 Jones
22 Madigan
23 Reddan


It looks like 18, 19 and 20 are the only question marks.

Ruddock maybe for bench. Ah You I hear will be ahead of Archer. Great if Zebo starts and it's not the worst team to send. Vital that we keep 9&10 protected.

 

[big ginger 8]

As for Jordi Murphy being lucky to be at camp, that's risible.

Him and Dave Kearney are public enemies number one and number two down south...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well I'm pleased with the team selected. I guess HM wants to keep the consistency going and build on the win of the AB's. Pity Redelinghuys wasn't picked, but I understand HM reason in not picking him just yet, as Julian is struggling with the lineout calls. Maybe a good idea to save him for the Poms...

 

[Peat]

Him and Dave Kearney are public enemies number one and number two down south...

I thought Daverage was occupying slots number one to three all by himself... shows what I know...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well I'm pleased with the team selected. I guess HM wants to keep the consistency going and build on the win of the AB's. Pity Redelinghuys wasn't picked, but I understand HM reason in not picking him just yet, as Julian is struggling with the lineout calls. Maybe a good idea to save him for the Poms...

You mean as a lifter?

This is the only article I could find on Coenie's selection. http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Boks-Coenie-will-be-fine-if-20141105

 

[TRF_heineken]

You mean as a lifter?

This is the only article I could find on Coenie's selection. http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Boks-Coenie-will-be-fine-if-20141105

Did you not watch the press conference when the team was announced yesterday? Someone asked him why wasn't Julian selected, and HM said "Julian just missed the cut, he has been training with the squad for just a week now, and don't know the lineout calls as yet, as they only had 2 lineout sessions while he has been with the squad".

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I didn't but it doesn't make sense to me since I played lock for UCT 4rths for a season and (granted the levels aren't comparable but i havn't seen anything crazy at our line-out) the props just folowed me and lifted when I jumped whether on our own ball or opposition.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I didn't but it doesn't make sense to me since I played lock for UCT 4rths for a season and (granted the levels aren't comparable but i havn't seen anything crazy at our line-out) the props just folowed me and lifted when I jumped whether on our own ball or opposition.

Hey hey! I see that as an insult! Us props don't follow you locks around! and without us, you wouldn't be able to catch the ball!

Anyways, I think it's just an excuse to save Julian for another week.

 

[munstermuffin]

Him and Dave Kearney are public enemies number one and number two down south...

Just call it as I see it. Kearneys strike rate (or lack of it) speaks for itself. And well if Jordi is up to it I'm sure he will cement his spot easily so when back the way some go on about him. Just my opinion but if you rate him higher than most mentioned then fair enough.

Anyway back on the now. Most sites have Jones in 23 shirt so I presume Rob Kearney is in a very highly way and is probably liable to pop early. Hopefully not but the bench is going to be interesting for impact as we will need something off bench to win also. I wonder can Madigan bring this role to international scene like he's being doing for Leinster in games. Still can see us winning by 7 points.

 

[PiXeL_NiNja]

I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about the intricacies at scrum time, but considering JR is 1.76/100kg he is a smaller unit when compared to most other props going around, I thought that the recent scrumlaw changes have meant that taller props are the way to go - ie: why Crockett is now in the AB fold. I remember being quite surprised at his vitals after researching them, considering the way the Lions scrum has gone this season, I just wonder how much of that success can be attributed to him. I dont think him not knowing linout calls is the real reason he is not in the 23. We'll only ever know after he's packed down against a quality scrum..

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about the intricacies at scrum time, but considering JR is 1.76/100kg he is a smaller unit when compared to most other props going around, I thought that the recent scrumlaw changes have meant that taller props are the way to go - ie: why Crockett is now in the AB fold. I remember being quite surprised at his vitals after researching them, considering the way the Lions scrum has gone this season, I just wonder how much of that success can be attributed to him. I dont think him not knowing linout calls is the real reason he is not in the 23. We'll only ever know after he's packed down against a quality scrum..

A shorter prop will always have an advantage against his opponent if his opponent is taller than him. The shorter prop has a lower centre of gravity, and when packing down at the scrum, his posture will be better than the taller prop as he doesn't have to "bend down".

But with that said, he still needs to have the necessary skills to be a good prop.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I thought Daverage was occupying slots number one to three all by himself... shows what I know...

No, you're right. That prick got his head in the way of Paulie's boot. The fact that Joe Schmidt even considered him over Zebo, who thought rugby had turned into American football in terms of attack and defence, is a farce.

 

[munstermuffin]

No, you're right. That prick got his head in the way of Paulie's boot. The fact that Joe Schmidt even considered him over Zebo, who thought rugby had turned into American football in terms of attack and defence, is a farce.

At least ye are down at our level so 1st sign of defending him is to attack although not sure what sense last bit made.
It's a fair comment by some to think Dave Kearney is not a top class wing. And was caught by a 2nd row with open road in Twickenham last year. Playing in 1 of best backlines in Europe and having a horrific try scoring rate. So if I guess as usual ye will come back with some other stupid comment to attack again. Fact is he hasn't got many fan outside Leinster it's not just Munster that don't rate him but this is opinions forum

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

At least ye are down at our level so 1st sign of defending him is to attack although not sure what sense last bit made.
It's a fair comment by some to think Dave Kearney is not a top class wing. And was caught by a 2nd row with open road in Twickenham last year. Playing in 1 of best backlines in Europe and having a horrific try scoring rate. So if I guess as usual ye will come back with some other stupid comment to attack again. Fact is he hasn't got many fan outside Leinster it's not just Munster that don't rate him but this is opinions forum

I was taking the **** really! With all our wingers fit and firing I think he comes in around 8th behind Bowe, Fitzgerald, Zebo, Trimble, McFadden, Earls and Gilroy (in that order). Last year though when we were in an injury crisis at wing and Zebo was playing like muck, he deserved his spot and played his role in a Schmidt system perfectly, just like everyone else in the 6 nations winning squad.

 

[munstermuffin]

I was taking the **** really! With all our wingers fit and firing I think he comes in around 8th behind Bowe, Fitzgerald, Zebo, Trimble, McFadden, Earls and Gilroy (in that order). Last year though when we were in an injury crisis at wing and Zebo was playing like muck, he deserved his spot and played his role in a Schmidt system perfectly, just like everyone else in the 6 nations winning squad.

I'd agree in some bit that yes he knew system and Zebo was playing poorly. As of now though I do question some. I accept your order (although as a winger I'd have Earls ahead of McFadden) but it no biggie as there's very litlle between most now. I'd throw Conway in mix too but while bottom group have improved I think guys like Bowe have declined slightly and gap is minimal.

On game interesting view said elsewhere about this Irish team.
We are going in to face 1 of best lineouts in world with a hooker that can't throw and has 2 props struggling with injury which will effect lifting.
A worldcalss scrum with 1 prop who can only scrummage and nothing else playing on back of awful form before injury and a month out. A hooker that is average at basics and McGrath who's green, not much of scrummager and injured and 2 props in reserve that are nothing better. And a 2nd row who both are poor come scrum time.

Should add not my words just passing it on.

That's an interesting view but does make me shudder a bit.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

On game interesting view said elsewhere about this Irish team.
We are going in to face 1 of best lineouts in world with a hooker that can't throw and has 2 props struggling with injury which will effect lifting.
A worldcalss scrum with 1 prop who can only scrummage and nothing else playing on back of awful form before injury and a month out. A hooker that is average at basics and McGrath who's green, not much of scrummager and injured and 2 props in reserve that are nothing better. And a 2nd row who both are poor come scrum time.

Should add not my words just passing it on.

That's an interesting view but does make me shudder a bit.

I wouldn't know how accurate that'd be but though I'd rate our current line-out as the best in the world but our scrum is up for the taking unless the Irish scrum is a mess as well in which case we'll probably see something of a 'cripple fight'.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

McGrath not much of a scrummager? News to me!

 

[munstermuffin]

McGrath not much of a scrummager? News to me!

As I said not my words. Being honest I wouldn't say much about his scrummaging as well his work in open play probably takes attention away from scrummaging. But I presume it's aimed at the front 5 unit as a whole. @Stormer It depends on which Mike Ross turns up as Poite will ping him if it's bad. I just hope it isn't a scrum ridden game.

 

[big ginger 8]

I thought Daverage was occupying slots number one to three all by himself... shows what I know...

Sure when Murphy was brought in for TO'D didn't that destroy his confidence and lead to his drop in form?

On game interesting view said elsewhere about this Irish team.
We are going in to face 1 of best lineouts in world with a hooker that can't throw and has 2 props struggling with injury which will effect lifting.
A worldcalss scrum with 1 prop who can only scrummage and nothing else playing on back of awful form before injury and a month out. A hooker that is average at basics and McGrath who's green, not much of scrummager and injured and 2 props in reserve that are nothing better. And a 2nd row who both are poor come scrum time.

Should add not my words just passing it on.

That's an interesting view but does make me shudder a bit.

Well whoever said that is talking out there ass and doesn't watch much current rugby, sounds like George Hook.