[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

[exeter]

Unlike last week, I don't think the officials' decisions this week had any bearing on the result. New Zealand were clearly better, and I don't know why people are wasting their time discussing the refereeing.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Jesus Christ NZers moaning so much about the ref. Yes it probably wasn't a try but after England got shafted by Owens last week and the unfair yellow this week plus considering you actually won, I think this level of *****ing is massively out of proportion. England have far more to complain about with regards to reffing. ABs are infringing just as much if not more than England, sometimes in try saving situations and not getting yellows whatever they do.

Ultimately NZ played better as England completely lost focus at the start of the second half (we seem to do this a lot) but ultimately England are pushing NZ as much as any team in the world can. If NZ can make the excuse of not being at their best then so can England. 2 very easy penalties form Care fumbling the ball that he normally doesn't do, Brown not at his best, 12tress making fumbling mistakes etc.

 

[austingtir]

Jesus Christ NZers moaning so much about the ref. Yes it probably wasn't a try but after England got shafted by Owens last week and the unfair yellow this week plus considering you actually won, I think this level of *****ing is massively out of proportion. England have far more to complain about with regards to reffing. ABs are infringing just as much if not more than England, sometimes in try saving situations and not getting yellows whatever they do.

Ultimately NZ played better as England completely lost focus at the start of the second half (we seem to do this a lot) but ultimately England are pushing NZ as much as any team in the world can. If NZ can make the excuse of not being at their best then so can England. 2 very easy penalties form Care fumbling the ball that he normally doesn't do, Brown not at his best, 12tress making fumbling mistakes etc.

so whats with all these England saints coming through rucks from all angles and kicking balls out of them? They did it last week and got away with aswell as tonight??

 

[Darwin]

Overall I thought the ref was very good. There were obviously some mistakes. I didn't think Farrell should have been carded (or even penalized - it looked like a maul to me), the awarding of the 2nd English try was a bit farcical, and the AB's did get away with three forward passes in a row at one stage! However I thought he definitely contributed to the excellent spectacle we saw.

 

[goodNumber10]

If you didn't have try number 2, and it clearly wasn't a try. You would not have got try number 3. So... Pointless. England get a try, was it 8-10 minutes in? And proceed to do what after that, till the last 10 minutes? I wouldn't take two of their tries as positives really, if I were you. I just don't see how scoring in garbage time and a terrible TMO decision is highlighted as positives.

I should really take an English standpoint that was taken last week after the loss.

No Read/Carter - Both IRB POTY Winners. Are you telling me they don't make NZ better?
Coach starting the #10 with 60 minutes of game time in 8 weeks, before the series starts.
Cory Jane will not be at the World Cup. Look for Hansen not being able to ignore the Blues' back-line players. Pick one: Moala, Halai, Tevita Li or using Piutau at wing because he's too good to pass up. Osborne/Nadolo?? Someone, anyone not called "Cory Jane". He hasn't been good since his injury.
Perenara the starting #9. Smith's pass is good and all that... But.. I think he's reached his ceiling, whereas, I think TJ could be amazing. Bet next season is huge for him.

Scoreboard says three trys. So not pointless at all.

Regardless the Cruz of what I'm saying is that we needed to score. We did three times.. We got in good scoring positions and came away with three trys.

So whine about it all you want three trys is a massive positive in regards or intent and ability to get on the score board.

We can't be solely reliant on kicked points.

Unlike last week, I don't think the officials' decisions this week had any bearing on the result. New Zealand were clearly better, and I don't know why people are wasting their time discussing the refereeing.

Oh God. ^^^this.


Take it to the laws thread instead of crying like a kid in a playground about something that had no effect on the result of the game.

 

[Tony Manx]

Scoreboard says three trys. So not pointless at all.

Regardless the Cruz of what I'm saying is that we needed to score. We did three times.. We got in good scoring positions and came away with three trys.

So whine about it all you want three trys is a massive positive in regards or intent and ability to get on the score board.

We can't be solely reliant on kicked points.

....not to be pedantic but it is "tries" not "trys"!!

 

[smartcooky]

The cock-up was made by Garces. He should not have said he "thought" the ball was grounded unless he was 100% certain it was. His advice to the referee triggered the "second" question..."any reason not to award the try". What Garces should have said was that he was not sure. That would have triggered the "first" question... "Try, yes or no", and with that question the try would probably have been disallowed.

Note: This is not a whinge, I'm just saying what the protocol is. Its Garces who will cop the red ink entry on his assessment for a critical error.

 

[Mumbles119]

so whats with all these England saints coming through rucks from all angles and kicking balls out of them? They did it last week and got away with aswell as tonight??

Yes. Please re read his post again

 

[Tony Manx]

The cock-up was made by Garces. He should not have said he "thought" the ball was grounded unless he was 100% certain it was. His advice to the referee triggered the "second" question..."any reason not to award the try". What Garces should have said was that he was not sure. That would have triggered the "first" question... "Try, yes or no", and with that question the try would probably have been disallowed.

Agreed and what I was trying to get over!!

 

[St George]

If you didn't have try number 2, and it clearly wasn't a try. You would not have got try number 3.

Nostradamus is alive & kicking

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The cock-up was made by Garces. He should not have said he "thought" the ball was grounded unless he was 100% certain it was. His advice to the referee triggered the "second" question..."any reason not to award the try". What Garces should have said was that he was not sure. That would have triggered the "first" question... "Try, yes or no", and with that question the try would probably have been disallowed.

Well, Garces will ref the 3rd test. We'll both have to get used to his "interpretations" and play to them.

 

[austingtir]

Yes. Please re read his post again

I did and my reply was a dig at the fact he was making out like England did no wrong the entire match. Quite frankly the rest of the twaddle he wrote didnt really interest me as its just that!

And England arent anywhere near South Africa's level. Not even close. If England played in the rugby championship they'd be lucky not to come last.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

so whats with all these England saints coming through rucks from all angles and kicking balls out of them? They did it last week and got away with aswell as tonight??

Please quote where I even slightly hinted that England were not infringing. I said the ABs are infringing just as much and often worse infringements (try saving situations) yet get nothing for it whilst England have now had 2 yellows. What do the ABs need to do to get someone sin binned because they have been just as bad if not worse than England. Please learn to read.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Overall I thought the ref was very good. There were obviously some mistakes. I didn't think Farrell should have been carded (or even penalized - it looked like a maul to me), the awarding of the 2nd English try was a bit farcical, and the AB's did get away with three forward passes in a row at one stage! However I thought he definitely contributed to the excellent spectacle we saw.

Pretty standard then for the All Blacks.

 

[goodNumber10]

Please take the incident specific law discussions to the laws thread..... (The brown incident for example). Thanks.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Some of the NZ posters here, guys you aren't doing our reputation any favours here. You can't pick and choose which England tries mattered or not. The fact they crossed our line three times is a worry for us and I'm sure will be drilled into us them next week.

nice to see the NZ set piece dominate. I thought our scrum really did some damage, we did get humped in one at the end on halfway but in general had the upper hand. It was good to see after we looked a bit shaky last week.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Well, Garces will ref the 3rd test. We'll both have to get used to his "interpretations" and play to them.

****ing hell is he?! That'll be a lottery then he is a terrible ref.

 

[goodNumber10]

Some of the NZ posters here, guys you aren't doing our reputation any favours here. You can't pick and choose which England tries mattered or not. The fact they crossed our line three times is a worry for us and I'm sure will be drilled into us them next week.

nice to see the NZ set piece dominate. I thought our scrum really did some damage, we did get humped in one at the end on halfway but in general had the upper hand. It was good to see after we looked a bit shaky last week.

Your pack were brilliant. They've clearly worked very hard on set piece this week and were very dynamic post half time.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Steve James's ratings from the Daily Telegraph here in the UK:

New Zealand v England: Player ratings


B Smith 9
Magnificent in attack and defence. Dazzling feet offensively and a quite brilliant tackle to bring Manu Tuilagi down after long chase.

C Jane 6
Mixed bag. Brilliant hands one minute, but a drop too. Was hard to shine, though, given some of the brilliance around him.

C Smith 8
Super slick. Could not quite find Liam Messam with line at mercy but made no mistake later with Ma'a Nonu.

M Nonu 8
So much better and so in turn New Zealand were so much better. Always looked like breaking or creating an opportunity.

J Savea 9
Such a handful with his power and awareness. Once destroyed Marland Yarde and bumped off Manu Tuilagi.

A Cruden 5
Poor, leading to early exit. England targeted him early on, with Luther Burrell in particular running hard at him, and it affected him.

A Smith 7
Had early clearance charged down and even fluffed a box kick, but when the pace quickened he was the catalyst. Considerable running threat.

T Woodcock 7
New Zealand's scrummage was hugely improved when the game was live (England came strong at the end) and he was clearly a part of that.

D Coles 7
Had an outstanding first half in which he made an awful lot of tackles, and also carried prominently. New Zealand's line out was much better.

O Franks 7
Another who will be very happy with the improved scrummage. Great hands in the build up to Savea's try.

B Retallick 7
One brilliant turnover and did his graft well, tackling well and winning a lot of line-out ball.

S Whitelock 7
Like Retallick conceded an early penalty, but stole one first-half line out and did some excellent work at the re-starts.

L Messam 7
Went about his work quietly in the first half but exploded into prominence in the second half as the tempo was upped.

R McCaw 7
More like it even if he missed Marland Yarde for England's first try, but was not helped by Aaron Cruden alongside.

J Kaino 7
As the game progressed his carrying became more and more significant. Nice off-load for Savea's try. Totally outplayed Ben Morgan.

Replacements
Beauden Barrett may well start next weekend at fly half, while Victor Vito was again very lively when appearing.



England

M Brown 6
Again not at his best, but still scored a try (just!) and made one excellent tackle on Ma'a Nonu.

M Tuilagi 6
Wasted? It looked like it. Ran 60m at the end of the first half but was hauled down by Ben Smith. Lovely off-load for Chris Ashton's try.

L Burrell 6
Carried powerfully early on, but his partnership with Billy Twelvetrees never clicked and they were eclipsed by the All Blacks' pairing.

B Twelvetrees 5
Did some good things, but, crucially, his over-ambitious off-load led to New Zealand try just after half time. Superb first-half break.

M Yarde 6
Took his try superbly, brushing off McCaw in the process but kicked poorly at times and made other small mistakes. Not polished enough.

O Farrell 5
A poor game. His best moment was a thumping tackle on Aaron Smith but his yellow card for not rolling away at 18-13 was the killer blow.

D Care 5
Looked understandably rusty. Kicked poorly especially in the first half and too often knocked on from driving mauls.

J Marler 5
Not one of his best days as New Zealand's scrummage stepped up. Crucially penalised for penalty just before half time that made it 10-6.

R Webber 6
Replaced relatively early but that was no reflection on a poor performance, even if England did lose a couple of line outs. Very nearly scored.

D Wilson 6
Stepped by Aaron Smith in open play but no surprise really. Showed previously unseen prowess with the boot at one stage.

J Launchbury 6
Charged down Aaron Smith early on but was not the influence he has been. Missed a couple of tackles.

G Parling 8
Had a stunning first half where he was comfortably England's best player. Made 12 tackles in that first half in probably his finest period in the loose for England.

T Wood 6
worked hard as he does, but James Haskell might say he was more prominent last weekend. One dextrous take low down and pass.

C Robshaw 6
A very different game from last weekend. One stunning interception from a line out and unceasing work as ever, but could not influence matters significantly.

B Morgan 6
Just not the influence he was last weekend, but certainly did not have the same scrummage platform. Billy Vunipola made a difference here.

Replacements
England would like to have introduced them from a position of strength but the game went away from them quickly after the break, and it was too late. Matt Mullan impressed. Chris Ashton nicked a try.

 

[smartcooky]

Well, Garces will ref the 3rd test. We'll both have to get used to his "interpretations" and play to them.

That does worry me because Garces is the worst referee on the top panel; he is the new Bryce Lawrence.